Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[frajaq]

I understand the initial frustration but honestly a bit of time management and forward-planning can be interesting in this game

 

[Sacred82]

You won't do that damage on every hit, though. And you get far less APR.

You can use Greater Vital Strike as often as you like per day, which would always result in 24d8 + bouns points of damage. Every single round of combat, if you want to, and as long as you're under the effect of Legendary Proportions and Lead Blades. Losing APR is probably not the worst thing on a Sword Saint, compared to Fighters.

A level 16 Magus as we have here also has an Arcane Pool of 8 + Int modifier, and Perfect Strike lets you maximize your damage dice for 1 point, so that's a guaranteed 196 damage ~10 times a day. In case of a crit (and you get your Int bonus on crit confirmation), you can instead spend 2 points to up crit multiplier by 1. Even the mangled Kingmaker rules say that those two functions are mutually exclusive. Just google Sword Saint for Pathfinder, it's a completely different thing.

 

[Haplo]

Well, technically Vital Strike is also not supposed to be compatible with critical multipliers. You'd get 24d8 once and the rest of critical damage from regular 6d8 rolls.

This was my other concern, as it would limit the usefulness of the combo even further.

Frankly I prefer Owlcat's interpretation. These abilities are niche enough, particularly for a 3 feat cost, 16 BAB requirement (and a specific combo of an oversized weapon and 2 spells, where one is ranger exclusive and the other a high level buff).

Personally I find it better that if you employ these things in a smart way, you can at least get some value from them.

As for Sword Saint, Owlcat simply chose to use a different name for the class (and complicate things). Google Kensai instead if you want a Pathfinder reference.

 

[Sacred82]

Well, technically Vital Strike is also not supposed to be compatible with critical multipliers. You'd get 24d8 once and the rest of critical damage from regular 6d8 rolls.

This was my other concern, as it would limit the usefulness of the combo even further.

Welp, Greater Vital Strike is strictly a high BAB ability (BAB 16 in a max level 20 game). It's not really meant to go on a lower BAB class; you can do it, but you have to blame yourself for that limited usefulness.

As for Sword Saint, Owlcat simply chose to use a different name for the class (and complicate things). Google Kensai instead if you want a Pathfinder reference.

Not really

Pathfinder Kensai

Kingmaker Sword Saint

Pathfinder Sword Saint

They're not the same except in name. Kensai would get Canny Defense which is denied if flat-footed, and that happens relatively often in Kingmaker (hence lolol sneak attacks). Instead the Kingmaker Sword Saint gets Uncanny Dodge which neither the Kensai nor PF Sword Saint get, or Improved Uncanny Dodge in case of stacking. There is also no equivalent for Perfect Reflexes or Lethal Focus (against flatfooted add Int bonus to every single damage roll) in PF Sword Saint or Kensai.

 

[Haplo]

Actually
Kingmaker Sword Saint = Pathfinder Kensai.
Do ignore Pathfinder Sword Saint, that's a different beast altogether.

Kingmaker Sword Saint does NOT get Uncanny Dodge, he gets Canny Defense.
Perfect Reflexes = Kensai Iaijutsu Master
Lethal Focus = Kensai Iaijutsu Focus

 

[Sacred82]

Actually
Kingmaker Sword Saint = Pathfinder Kensai.
Do ignore Pathfinder Sword Saint, that's a different beast altogether.

except for minor differences like Detect Magic instead of Read Magic, yes. So what made me suspicious probably was that the Sword Saint is a Mary Sue class. Weapon focused abilities like a fighter, crit enhancing abilities, good BAB, enhanced defense, full blown caster class; and abilities don't work as described (both times in the player's favour... coincidentally).

Kingmaker Sword Saint does NOT get Uncanny Dodge, he gets Canny Defense.

just checked it, the Wiki is wrong.

 

[Haplo]

Medium BAB and not a full blown caster, but a 2/3 one. With stunted spell slot progression (-1 per spell level) and no spell recall or greater spell access.
Still, I do think its a pretty awesome class. You forgot weapon enchancements ...though they seriously drop off towards the end of the game (except Ghost Blade, that one is awesome).

 

[Haplo]

Have an idea how to use Lead Blades at least a little longer... If I take 4 Ranger levels, with end game stat boosting equipment I'll have 2 casts of that spell. Normally only 1 minute each, 2 minutes with lesser Extend rods. However with the Magical Knack Trait from Eldritch Arcana I could boost Ranger Caster Level by 2 and have them last 3 minutes, 6 minutes extended. Still not much, but... that's at least something.

Would probably still need to pick that 1 fighter level at 20 and loose the level 15 Bane Arcana... and that's pretty bad (as besides +2d6 damage, that's also +2 to hit).

 

[Haplo]

Oh damn. Maybe being able to pick Greater Vital Strike at 15 BAB (and SS 17) is not a bug. The wording of Critical Perfection is changed in Kingmaker:
"In addition, the sword saint may use his magus levels in place of his base attack bonuses to qualify for any feat for which it is a prerequisite"

The source text for Kensai class clearly pointed at Critical Focus and related critical feats, but this wording would mean that a sword saint may qualify earlier for any feats with BAB requirements.

That also means a Sword Saint's Vital Strikes may be ahead of his attack progression: x3 at 11 and x4 at 16, making it quite an attractive option.



That's pretty awesome. Although it does push the Lead Blades solution further away... Wish this spell wasn't personal only/limited to such a class.

 

[Sacred82]

Medium BAB and not a full blown caster, but a 2/3 one. With stunted spell slot progression (-1 per spell level) and no spell recall or greater spell access.
Still, I do think its a pretty awesome class.

medium = good. There's only 3 kinds of BAB progression. And "medium" tends to be "good" as in good enough, especially with boosted stats.

Enemis provoking AoO's even when casting defensively sounds... potentially very exploitable. I mean all Maguses except the Archer have it, but you're probably not going to multi anyone over to Magus, so there's a situation that devs didn't have to account for unless the player creates a Magus.

Delivering the notoriously unpopular touch attack spells through a weapon, using that weapon's crit range on top, is a strong selling point. IMO that should be the point of the class. But you also get powerful AoE's like other wizards.

Add Bonus Magus Feats and Magus Arcana on top and it seems weirdly OP. Unless it actually ends up being middle of the road compared to specialist characters.

 

[Grotesque]

is there a way to remedy this texture bug?

 

[anvi]

What texture bug? You mean the fuzzy look?

 

[Jack Of Owls]

is there a way to remedy this texture bug?

Heh, I don't think it's a bug. I guess it's suppose to be like a classic marble texture to help distinguish them in dark dingy dungeons and let you know there's goodies in there. I thought it was a bug at first too.

 

[Yosharian]

If you have two tanks in your frontline, does the AI still switch between them endlessly as part of their 'seek higher threat' mechanic? Or did they improve that?

 

[Haplo]

Hm, since Critical Focus allows to meet feat BAB requirements with full SS levels, guess I will go SS19/M1 after all... and install the Craft Items mod to make me some Lead Blades wands.... Should be about optimal. Getting Improved Vital Strike at level 12 should be pretty cool also.
Although will really start to rock after beating Armag and taking his sword.

 

[ArchAngel]

WTF, I just equipped Staff of Whispering Souls for the first time on my Evil Necro. This item is amazing. +4 profane bonus to Int and you just need to have it equipped, you don't need to have it currently selected..
Damn, my Necromancer is going to have awesome necro DC in end game, Wail of Banshee whole day on the fey packs :D

 

[Haplo]

Cool. Having the effect without holding the staff sounds like a bug (not a first one like that). Sadly Wail is capped in how much damage it can do per target nowadays. Still 2 of those (or a combination with something else) should work.

 

[ArchAngel]

And then right after that staff I found necromancer's staff that turns weapons of animated dead and create undead into +3 weapons :D
I don't remember these two items last few times I did Vordekai's dungeon.

 

[Haplo]

That sounds pretty awesome

 

[Jack Of Owls]

WTF, I just equipped Staff of Whispering Souls for the first time on my Evil Necro. This item is amazing. +4 profane bonus to Int and you just need to have it equipped, you don't need to have it currently selected.. :D

That is cool. I have that staff in my inventory but don't have it on Octavia because I assumed it would replace her ranged weapon and didn't want to lose that. However, I hope it isn't a bug since I hate using exploits and bugs to give myself an advantage. Speaking of bugs, it's somewhat amazing how far this game has come in that area. The only slightly annoying, seriously noticeable bug I've found in 1.3.0 was a cleric/priest's inventory in one of my towns being empty when I wanted to get some scrolls and diamonds at a discount. Not bad for such a complex game that started out not too balanced and stable.

 

[Daidre]

The only slightly annoying, seriously noticeable bug I've found in 1.3.0 was a cleric/priest's inventory in one of my towns being empty when I wanted to get some scrolls and diamonds at a discount.

You can scroll it up to see store content.
Game saves scrollbar position from previous shop visit but this one could be wrong for shorter list.

And there is no need to use bug for getting Int bonus from Whispering Souls Staff. Any Wizard/Sorc with melee weapon can put cantrip on auto-cast instead of shooting with crossbow. I even prefer this to shooting - longer animation makes it easier to stop them halfway if you changed plans for this round.

 

[Jack Of Owls]

I equipped Octavia with special bracers that allow her to use bows, and found one that deals significant (but not OP) fire damage. Still would hate to lose that, but thanks for the tip. It never occurred to me to use cantrips in autocast for an effective cheap range weapon.

 

[Haplo]

A very accurate, although slow, weapon. Damage is quite poor, but if it carries sneak attacks, its not terrible.

 

[ArchAngel]

WTF, I just equipped Staff of Whispering Souls for the first time on my Evil Necro. This item is amazing. +4 profane bonus to Int and you just need to have it equipped, you don't need to have it currently selected.. :D

That is cool. I have that staff in my inventory but don't have it on Octavia because I assumed it would replace her ranged weapon and didn't want to lose that. However, I hope it isn't a bug since I hate using exploits and bugs to give myself an advantage. Speaking of bugs, it's somewhat amazing how far this game has come in that area. The only slightly annoying, seriously noticeable bug I've found in 1.3.0 was a cleric/priest's inventory in one of my towns being empty when I wanted to get some scrolls and diamonds at a discount. Not bad for such a complex game that started out not too balanced and stable.

Octavia cannot use it, the character needs to be Evil. But you can give it to Fire Kineticist companion and keep it in her secondary slots. She needs both hands free to use Gather Power.

 

[Jack Of Owls]

Octavia cannot use it, the character needs to be Evil. But you can give it to Fire Kineticist companion and keep it in her secondary slots. She needs both hands free to use Gather Power.

Yeah, I just thought of that after I clicked Post Reply. With an item with a name like "The Staff of Withering Souls" it's not likely that a cheerful, bubbly, queer hippy chick like Octavia can use it. i should sell the fucking thing and make a nice bundle, but I just can't bear to part with it. I mean, The Staff of Withering Souls?! I want it close to me.