Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Yosharian]

Any combination of evocation, divination, enchantment or necromancy does just fine, the only two schools you really do not want to ban are conjuration and transmutation, maybe illusion, though lots of potions out there to become invisible. Displacement is hardly neccessary on a non-tank and the Bard does not get many spells per day anyway.I'd rather have a spell that gives a significant boost to the entire party than Displacement. That early you also have no need for Displacement, Blur is sufficient. Earliest would be act 2 against Hodags

If you say so. For my party, Displacement and Haste are 10x more valuable than Good Hope. Displacement in particular is a game-changer for my two tanks. As soon as its available.

Displacement is 2.5x better than Blur, Blur doesn't cut it against tough targets.

 

[Yosharian]

I usually go straight bard with Linzi and she winds up dominating with AoE CC songs, group buffs, two-weapon crit triggering, and decent offensive spells as long as you target the weak save. Cacophonous Call is so underrated, eats Owlbears alive.

I will say this, I missed that spell and now that I'm looking at it I'm wondering how the fuck I managed to, it looks extremely powerful.

 

[Cryomancer]

Finally defeated Spawn of Rovagug. Instead of trying to use magic(something that doesn't work), i decided to change my approach and did the following

• Hired an lv 20 merc barbarian and massivelly buffed him and eqquiped him with the best itens and resistance to fire and acid(see why below) and made everything that i could to make him a tanky character, not to tank physical blows with high AC, but to tank elemental damage(for this HP > AC)
• Then buffed him with spells like legendary proportion in pre battle
• Used magma deadly earth from my kineticist and an fire wall and launched some summons to distract the boss, then the barb raging.
• Let my charname's magic like mass ice prison and tsunami only to his minions
• Used druids and clerics to re buff him every time that he got dispeled but only used other animal companions as distraction, he was the main DPS and to heal then of course.

In about one minute, this godlike boss got defeated.

The barb

The boss finally dead

spawn of rovagug dead

Why so many people say that magic is OP in pathfinder/D&D when melee is much more reliable against this ridiculous powerful creatures?

 

[razvedchiki]

You "tank" by killing the enemy quicker and disabling the enemy with spells. Two hander has significantly higher damage than sword and shield, and charisma based ones can use Curnogen Smash to lower enemy saves.

I mean have enough ac to be considered front liner,all this talk about "offence is the best defence" is old and to be honest tiring.

@SOrcerorvictor thata the final boss from the endless paths?

 

[Cryomancer]

@SOrcerorvictor thata the final boss from the endless paths?

Yes. I had a lot of trouble against him and loved it. There are an long time since i had so much trouble with an boss and i honestly think that godlike beings should be that hard.

 

[razvedchiki]

Does the xp and the loot you get from the paths unbalance the main game?

 

[Gord]

For those who played through the game - how long did it take you?
I'm nearing 200 hours and have not even started Pitax yet - I honestly don't know where all that time has gone (didn't restart, not too much reloading).

 

[Cryomancer]

Does the xp and the loot you get from the paths unbalance the main game?

Not for path, but playing solo with no XP share can make you into lv 20 pretty quickly

I'm nearing 200 hours and have not even started Pitax yet - I honestly don't know where all that time has gone (didn't restart, not too much reloading).

Pitax i believe that is around 80-90% of the game, depending of an decision that i will not spoil...

 

[deuxhero]

You "tank" by killing the enemy quicker and disabling the enemy with spells. Two hander has significantly higher damage than sword and shield, and charisma based ones can use Curnogen Smash to lower enemy saves.

I mean have enough ac to be considered front liner,all this talk about "offence is the best defence" is old and to be honest tiring.

@SOrcerorvictor thata the final boss from the endless paths?

AC has fairly little impact on survival. Saves, immunities, HP, casters disabling foes, killing foes quick and post combat patch ups are more important than the handful of AC a shield gives. Without crafting or vendor mod I think you'll only ever see a +2 heavy shield until fairly late (level 10+) into the game.

 

[Ainamacar]

Any combination of evocation, divination, enchantment or necromancy does just fine, the only two schools you really do not want to ban are conjuration and transmutation, maybe illusion, though lots of potions out there to become invisible. Displacement is hardly neccessary on a non-tank and the Bard does not get many spells per day anyway.I'd rather have a spell that gives a significant boost to the entire party than Displacement. That early you also have no need for Displacement, Blur is sufficient. Earliest would be act 2 against Hodags

If you say so. For my party, Displacement and Haste are 10x more valuable than Good Hope. Displacement in particular is a game-changer for my two tanks. As soon as its available.

Displacement is 2.5x better than Blur, Blur doesn't cut it against tough targets.

Good Hope is incredibly efficient. It is a fire-and-forget improvement to essentially every important stat except spell/ability DCs for long enough to run out of most other resources while using few resources itself. With the possible exception of Womb of Lamashtu (given the wandering and relatively low level of Good Hope at that point), I don't think there is a single dungeon in the game that requires more than two extended castings of Good Hope. Lesser rods of extending go to sleep at night hoping they'll modify that spell in the morning.

Plus, does the amazing duration of Heroism actually come into play if you rely heavily on Displacement and Haste? Unless you push through a lot of fights without them you'll be out of 3rd level slots long before either Heroism or Good Hope wears out. In which case they effectively have the same duration, except Good Hope buffs everybody. In the other case, the more fights you push through the greater the relative value of one casting of Good Hope to one casting of Haste/Displacement. Haste and Displacement are great spells, but by 9th level every Bard should have at least 4 3rd level spell slots. Surely one can be spared for Ultimate Pep Talk.

 

[Yosharian]

Any combination of evocation, divination, enchantment or necromancy does just fine, the only two schools you really do not want to ban are conjuration and transmutation, maybe illusion, though lots of potions out there to become invisible. Displacement is hardly neccessary on a non-tank and the Bard does not get many spells per day anyway.I'd rather have a spell that gives a significant boost to the entire party than Displacement. That early you also have no need for Displacement, Blur is sufficient. Earliest would be act 2 against Hodags

If you say so. For my party, Displacement and Haste are 10x more valuable than Good Hope. Displacement in particular is a game-changer for my two tanks. As soon as its available.

Displacement is 2.5x better than Blur, Blur doesn't cut it against tough targets.

Good Hope is incredibly efficient. It is a fire-and-forget improvement to essentially every important stat except spell/ability DCs for long enough to run out of most other resources while using few resources itself. With the possible exception of Womb of Lamashtu (given the wandering and relatively low level of Good Hope at that point), I don't think there is a single dungeon in the game that requires more than two extended castings of Good Hope. Lesser rods of extending go to sleep at night hoping they'll modify that spell in the morning.

Plus, does the amazing duration of Heroism actually come into play if you rely heavily on Displacement and Haste? Unless you push through a lot of fights without them you'll be out of 3rd level slots long before either Heroism or Good Hope wears out. In which case they effectively have the same duration, except Good Hope buffs everybody. In the other case, the more fights you push through the greater the relative value of one casting of Good Hope to one casting of Haste/Displacement. Haste and Displacement are great spells, but by 9th level every Bard should have at least 4 3rd level spell slots. Surely one can be spared for Ultimate Pep Talk.

I only use Haste/Displacement on the toughest fights.

Early on Good Hope lasts, what, 7-10 minutes? I'll grant you that if you're using Extend rods then it's much better value. I never picked those up early on so I kinda missed out on that.

 

[Desiderius]

Upgrading from Heroism to Good Hope was a major step up in my game. The various places where you get it for free (healing dying dorf twice in troll dungeon, deva blessing in Lostlarn, dorf relic helm casts it) I think are there to hint in that direction.

Note: none of these stick on toons who have Heroism up.

If you always use dorf helm for your first cast then second extended is usually enough to last you.

 

[Desiderius]

I only use Haste/Displacement on the toughest fights.

Early on Good Hope lasts, what, 7-10 minutes? I'll grant you that if you're using Extend rods then it's much better value. I never picked those up early on so I kinda missed out on that.

I usually err on the side of long duration (I.e. Magical Vestment) but Good Hope and Archon’s Aura are good enough to go through the necessary hoops (note: Tristan comes with extend metamagic and 4th level Cleric spells are meh).

 

[Desiderius]

You "tank" by killing the enemy quicker and disabling the enemy with spells. Two hander has significantly higher damage than sword and shield, and charisma based ones can use Curnogen Smash to lower enemy saves.

I mean have enough ac to be considered front liner,all this talk about "offence is the best defence" is old and to be honest tiring.

@SOrcerorvictor thata the final boss from the endless paths?

AC has fairly little impact on survival. Saves, immunities, HP, casters disabling foes, killing foes quick and post combat patch ups are more important than the handful of AC a shield gives. Without crafting or vendor mod I think you'll only ever see a +2 heavy shield until fairly late (level 10+) into the game.

I was surprised when someone finally missed Maegar at a key point in a fight and, yep, (8th lvl) Magical Vestment was just enough. Every little bit helps.

 

[Yosharian]

I only use Haste/Displacement on the toughest fights.

Early on Good Hope lasts, what, 7-10 minutes? I'll grant you that if you're using Extend rods then it's much better value. I never picked those up early on so I kinda missed out on that.

I usually err on the side of long duration (I.e. Magical Vestment) but Good Hope and Archon’s Aura are good enough to go through the necessary hoops (note: Tristan comes with extend metamagic and 4th level Cleric spells are meh).

Tristan can cast Good Hope?

 

[Desiderius]

Any combination of evocation, divination, enchantment or necromancy does just fine, the only two schools you really do not want to ban are conjuration and transmutation, maybe illusion, though lots of potions out there to become invisible. Displacement is hardly neccessary on a non-tank and the Bard does not get many spells per day anyway.I'd rather have a spell that gives a significant boost to the entire party than Displacement. That early you also have no need for Displacement, Blur is sufficient. Earliest would be act 2 against Hodags

If you say so. For my party, Displacement and Haste are 10x more valuable than Good Hope. Displacement in particular is a game-changer for my two tanks. As soon as its available.

Displacement is 2.5x better than Blur, Blur doesn't cut it against tough targets.

The less I rest the better my kingdom does. I will say that the DLC opened my eyes to the utility of wands and scrolls.

 

[Desiderius]

I only use Haste/Displacement on the toughest fights.

Early on Good Hope lasts, what, 7-10 minutes? I'll grant you that if you're using Extend rods then it's much better value. I never picked those up early on so I kinda missed out on that.

I usually err on the side of long duration (I.e. Magical Vestment) but Good Hope and Archon’s Aura are good enough to go through the necessary hoops (note: Tristan comes with extend metamagic and 4th level Cleric spells are meh).

Tristan can cast Good Hope?

Archon’s Aura is Good Hope’s evil twin.

 

[Desiderius]

Bard is really the only class I personally consider mandatory for a perfect balanced highest difficulty party.

Bard makes Varnhold a difficulty class easier. Tried it without and ended up making Bruiser a halfassed one. The precon Paladin makes a great one.

 

[Desiderius]

This playthrough Val is handling pure bard duties (TSS1,SF1,Bx) while Linzi is working toward a Bard4, Barb2, Swordlord5, Sword Saint x monstrosity.

that's what I am getting at; the whole system is like legos, you can build anything you want.
i... am not even sure Pathfinder is a class system at this point.

I think it’s a good mix.

My MC Hospitaler is more or less locked in for eleven levels so she can be death-proof for Vordokai and Amiri is going Defender of the True World Druid at least that far. Tristan gets a ranger lvl or two for a decent reach weapon and a freebooter finger but otherwise is locked in as is Octavia until AT10, Reg until Scion13, and Jaethal until Inq8.

 

[Yosharian]

My MC Hospitaler is more or less locked in for eleven levels so she can be death-proof for Vordokai and Amiri is going Defender of the True World Druid at least that far. Tristan gets a ranger lvl or two for a decent reach weapon and a freebooter finger but otherwise is locked in as is Octavia until AT10, Reg until Scion13, and Jaethal until Inq8.

Death-proof for Vordakai? What?

Beguiling Immunity is a nice ability but I'm not sure it's worth 9 levels of Druid unless you're already a Druid.

Delaying Tristan's casting just to get... a weapon proficiency and a mini-bard song against one target?

 

[Lambach]

Vordakai is a total pansy, not sure why you'd have to build something specific to counter him. Buff against Fear + Good Hope for extra Saves + Haste, get close and stab him. That's it. If he manages to get one Finger of Death off and kill your squishy, you should've had Raise Dead for several levels at that point.

 

[Desiderius]

My MC Hospitaler is more or less locked in for eleven levels so she can be death-proof for Vordokai and Amiri is going Defender of the True World Druid at least that far. Tristan gets a ranger lvl or two for a decent reach weapon and a freebooter finger but otherwise is locked in as is Octavia until AT10, Reg until Scion13, and Jaethal until Inq8.

Death-proof for Vordakai? What?

Beguiling Immunity is a nice ability but I'm not sure it's worth 9 levels of Druid unless you're already a Druid.

Delaying Tristan's casting just to get... a weapon proficiency and a mini-bard song against one target?

Check what Hospitalers get instead of Mark of Justice. Way less headaches for both the Vordokai chapter and Armag’s Tomb.

Tristan whacking with a glaive is one more flanker to trigger outflank and all those mini-bard songs stack. Also makes Perception a class skill.

 

[Desiderius]

Vordakai is a total pansy, not sure why you'd have to build something specific to counter him. Buff against Fear + Good Hope for extra Saves + Haste, get close and stab him. That's it. If he manages to get one Finger of Death off and kill your squishy, you should've had Raise Dead for several levels at that point.

Not Vordokai in particular, the whole chapter and the next. Hospitaliter + Jaethal tank means less having to micro Death Wards.

 

[Yosharian]

My MC Hospitaler is more or less locked in for eleven levels so she can be death-proof for Vordokai and Amiri is going Defender of the True World Druid at least that far. Tristan gets a ranger lvl or two for a decent reach weapon and a freebooter finger but otherwise is locked in as is Octavia until AT10, Reg until Scion13, and Jaethal until Inq8.

Death-proof for Vordakai? What?

Beguiling Immunity is a nice ability but I'm not sure it's worth 9 levels of Druid unless you're already a Druid.

Delaying Tristan's casting just to get... a weapon proficiency and a mini-bard song against one target?

Check what Hospitalers get instead of Mark of Justice. Way less headaches for both the Vordokai chapter and Armag’s Tomb.

Tristan whacking with a glaive is one more flanker to trigger outflank and all those mini-bard songs stack.

I'm too lazy to check.

 

[Desiderius]

My MC Hospitaler is more or less locked in for eleven levels so she can be death-proof for Vordokai and Amiri is going Defender of the True World Druid at least that far. Tristan gets a ranger lvl or two for a decent reach weapon and a freebooter finger but otherwise is locked in as is Octavia until AT10, Reg until Scion13, and Jaethal until Inq8.

Death-proof for Vordakai? What?

Beguiling Immunity is a nice ability but I'm not sure it's worth 9 levels of Druid unless you're already a Druid.

Delaying Tristan's casting just to get... a weapon proficiency and a mini-bard song against one target?

Amiri is trying it so her pet/summons/shapeshifts get big bonuses vs wild hunt and the like. Usually make her a very good freebooter so we’ll see.