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Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

Cael

Arcane
Possibly Retarded
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
22,449
Case in point. The shills think that tactic will make people shut up, but the reality is that it will only make people want to poke fun at their shill game even more due to the reaction and hatred they know they are generating in the shills. It is fun for the whole family!
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Messages
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
god I thought Cael was annoying
Cael is like the extrem purist, close to autism in a way. But at least he does know about what he is talking about(for PNP) and his opinion can be unserstood in a way. Porky seems like an epic casual using MMO balance to trash a single player game which is based on a specific license. Also he can't even understand that his interpreation of a class might not be universal. This is impressively retarded.
Shills hate those who know the system on which their shill game is based because those knowledgeable people can and will point out all that is broken about their shill game. Thus, they come up with all sorts of tactics to try and shut the knowledgeable people up, exactly like sjws with those who disagree with them and using the same tactics and lines of attack. In many ways, game/dev shills and sjws only differ in their object of shilling.

Thanks for sharing, Caelie.

Did you have something relevant to this conversation to add?
 

Cael

Arcane
Possibly Retarded
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
22,449
god I thought Cael was annoying
Cael is like the extrem purist, close to autism in a way. But at least he does know about what he is talking about(for PNP) and his opinion can be unserstood in a way. Porky seems like an epic casual using MMO balance to trash a single player game which is based on a specific license. Also he can't even understand that his interpreation of a class might not be universal. This is impressively retarded.
Shills hate those who know the system on which their shill game is based because those knowledgeable people can and will point out all that is broken about their shill game. Thus, they come up with all sorts of tactics to try and shut the knowledgeable people up, exactly like sjws with those who disagree with them and using the same tactics and lines of attack. In many ways, game/dev shills and sjws only differ in their object of shilling.

Thanks for sharing, Caelie.

Did you have something relevant to this conversation to add?
Your opinion of relevance is irrelevant, little bot (aka., Delterius) alt.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
Patron
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
14,978
Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
I'm not big on paladins but I assume they'd suffer due to PFK being a fairly atypical campaign with not very many undead/evil enemies.

Their main problem is being lousy at their usual tanking role due to poor implementation of heavy armor and lack of feats/free levels for splashes. I’d love to do some TSS levels to shore up the holes but there just isn’t room.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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14,978
Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
so what is a paladin good for?
saving throws?
2 level dip to get Divine Grace and proficiencies. If you take Divine Hunter you can get Precise Shot for free.

That's it really

I’m running one for the immunities/immunity auras and ridonculous healing/utility (hospitaler) and, yeah, full BAB, massive intimidate power, owning undead.

There’s a lot to like, you’re just not tanking or getting to do any of the broken stuff.
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
21,618
I did a full run of the campaign with a Paladin main and I enjoyed it. As people said, the character was not OP but he was useful. At high levels he gets some nice spells that are cast as swift actions and give damage boosts.
I used my as two handed weapon spec and used Falchions for that sweet critical hits and then took blinding critical. While he was less useful vs some of the fey his healing and auras was always useful and some of the fey in the end game as well as those ghosts were evil. His saves made him almost immune to all spell effects. There were no good Falchions in the game (+5 keen was what he used) but that didn't matter as he enchanted it with Holy and other abilities using his Bond Weapon. Also LG responses in dialogues were really enjoyable at times as they let you deal holy punishment to evil doers and unbelievers without mercy. Only thing missing from dialogue was something paladin specific like in BG where you can sense disguised evil characters and get them to drop the disguise immediately.
 

Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,977
Location
Russia
Cael is like the extrem purist, close to autism in a way. But at least he does know about what he is talking about(for PNP)
Except times when he gets pnp rules wrong which was pointed out, but that doesn't stop him :M

sjw tactics
The sjw tactics is straight banning, you won't last 5 mins after your first posts anywhere on the internet like paizo reddit or some such.
 

Cael

Arcane
Possibly Retarded
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
22,449
Cael is like the extrem purist, close to autism in a way. But at least he does know about what he is talking about(for PNP)
Except times when he gets pnp rules wrong which was pointed out, but that doesn't stop him :M

sjw tactics
The sjw tactics is straight banning, you won't last 5 mins after your first posts anywhere on the internet like paizo reddit or some such.
Your butthurt is showing big time, kid. Go find your safe space elsewhere and cry your eyes out. Your fellow shills in the room might care because no one else does.
 

Lambach

Arcane
Possibly Retarded
Joined
Feb 11, 2016
Messages
13,207
Location
Belgrade, Removekebabland
My Kineticist PC could've more-or-less trivialized the game upon hitting Level 13 and getting Deadly Earth. It's just a ridiculous ability, can be spammed at will, cannot be defended against (at most you can reduce the damage by 15-20 points..... and still take 100+ per round), doesn't allow Saves, only Spectres are immune to it (an enemy you encounter in one or two locations over the course of the entire game) etc. In order for the game to make any sense after that, I've pretty much only used my Kineticist for straight Kinetic Blasts (single-target), Heals/Revives and an occasional Wall for some extra AoE damage if I'm in trouble.

But holy mother of Jesus, the post-Nyrissa section is just so fucking ridiculously cheesy and the Wild Cunt are such poorly designed encounters that pigeon-hole you into one or two different tactics as all others are entirely uneffective that I literally just stopped giving a fuck and started spamming Deadly Earth + Cloud like a madman. Hordes of Wild Cunts falling within one or two rounds like they're Kobolds.

Then I've faced the Lantern King, resolved not to use the instant "I WIN" button. When I saw him liberally use the "Everything Ends" ability that cannot be defended against and dispels everything on my party which is very buff-reliant, I've again figured "fuck this shit" and just nuked the cunt with Deadly Earth + Cloud. Not a singe one of his forms lasted more than a round.

tl;dr - Pathfinder itself is pretty much "Josh Sawyer redesigns D&D 3.5 with BALINSE in mind", but the Kineticist didn't get the memo.
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
21,618
My Kineticist PC could've more-or-less trivialized the game upon hitting Level 13 and getting Deadly Earth. It's just a ridiculous ability, can be spammed at will, cannot be defended against (at most you can reduce the damage by 15-20 points..... and still take 100+ per round), doesn't allow Saves, only Spectres are immune to it (an enemy you encounter in one or two locations over the course of the entire game) etc. In order for the game to make any sense after that, I've pretty much only used my Kineticist for straight Kinetic Blasts (single-target), Heals/Revives and an occasional Wall for some extra AoE damage if I'm in trouble.

But holy mother of Jesus, the post-Nyrissa section is just so fucking ridiculously cheesy and the Wild Cunt are such poorly designed encounters that pigeon-hole you into one or two different tactics as all others are entirely uneffective that I literally just stopped giving a fuck and started spamming Deadly Earth + Cloud like a madman. Hordes of Wild Cunts falling within one or two rounds like they're Kobolds.

Then I've faced the Lantern King, resolved not to use the instant "I WIN" button. When I saw him liberally use the "Everything Ends" ability that cannot be defended against and dispels everything on my party which is very buff-reliant, I've again figured "fuck this shit" and just nuked the cunt with Deadly Earth + Cloud. Not a singe one of his forms lasted more than a round.

tl;dr - Pathfinder itself is pretty much "Josh Sawyer redesigns D&D 3.5 with BALINSE in mind", but the Kineticist didn't get the memo.
I complained about Deadly Earth to the devs and their community guy forwarded it and I got a response that characters should get a reward for well built characters :hmmm:
After that I decided to never use the ability.
 

Cael

Arcane
Possibly Retarded
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
22,449
It's like a toy you press and get random sounds out of it.
How cute. He actually thinks he is trolling me by using his sjw-style defamation. Then again, I shouldn't expect much from a Putin ass-boy, but hope springs eternal.
 

Lambach

Arcane
Possibly Retarded
Joined
Feb 11, 2016
Messages
13,207
Location
Belgrade, Removekebabland
I complained about Deadly Earth to the devs and their community guy forwarded it and I got a response that characters should get a reward for well built characters :hmmm:

1. Pick Kineticist
2. Pick Water at level 1
3. Pick Earth at level 7
4. Wait for level 13
5. Pick Deadly Earth

Damn, I wonder how many months of theorycrafting went into figuring out this hidden, yet brilliant gem of a build. :lol:
 

Daidre

Arcane
Joined
Jan 30, 2019
Messages
2,003
Location
Samara
Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
Except water > earth gives poor man's Deadly Earth comparing to fire > earth that deals damage even to the ghosts.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
Patron
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
14,978
Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Cael is like the extrem purist, close to autism in a way. But at least he does know about what he is talking about(for PNP)
Except times when he gets pnp rules wrong which was pointed out, but that doesn't stop him :M

sjw tactics
The sjw tactics is straight banning, you won't last 5 mins after your first posts anywhere on the internet like paizo reddit or some such.

Even Don Quixote wasn’t delusional about Sancho. Cael takes it to new levels.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
Patron
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
14,978
Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
My Kineticist PC could've more-or-less trivialized the game upon hitting Level 13 and getting Deadly Earth. It's just a ridiculous ability, can be spammed at will, cannot be defended against (at most you can reduce the damage by 15-20 points..... and still take 100+ per round), doesn't allow Saves, only Spectres are immune to it (an enemy you encounter in one or two locations over the course of the entire game) etc. In order for the game to make any sense after that, I've pretty much only used my Kineticist for straight Kinetic Blasts (single-target), Heals/Revives and an occasional Wall for some extra AoE damage if I'm in trouble.

But holy mother of Jesus, the post-Nyrissa section is just so fucking ridiculously cheesy and the Wild Cunt are such poorly designed encounters that pigeon-hole you into one or two different tactics as all others are entirely uneffective that I literally just stopped giving a fuck and started spamming Deadly Earth + Cloud like a madman. Hordes of Wild Cunts falling within one or two rounds like they're Kobolds.

Then I've faced the Lantern King, resolved not to use the instant "I WIN" button. When I saw him liberally use the "Everything Ends" ability that cannot be defended against and dispels everything on my party which is very buff-reliant, I've again figured "fuck this shit" and just nuked the cunt with Deadly Earth + Cloud. Not a singe one of his forms lasted more than a round.

tl;dr - Pathfinder itself is pretty much "Josh Sawyer redesigns D&D 3.5 with BALINSE in mind", but the Kineticist didn't get the memo.
I complained about Deadly Earth to the devs and their community guy forwarded it and I got a response that characters should get a reward for well built characters :hmmm:
After that I decided to never use the ability.

Devs play story mode. Can’t even be bothered to make a functional difficulty slider.
 

Cael

Arcane
Possibly Retarded
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
22,449
Cael is like the extrem purist, close to autism in a way. But at least he does know about what he is talking about(for PNP)
Except times when he gets pnp rules wrong which was pointed out, but that doesn't stop him :M

sjw tactics
The sjw tactics is straight banning, you won't last 5 mins after your first posts anywhere on the internet like paizo reddit or some such.

Even Don Quixote wasn’t delusional about Sancho. Cael takes it to new levels.
Little boy alt confirmed. With that name, how long did he expect to evade detection? Oh well, into the Quiet Box with the main account.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
Patron
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
14,978
Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
I complained about Deadly Earth to the devs and their community guy forwarded it and I got a response that characters should get a reward for well built characters :hmmm:

1. Pick Kineticist
2. Pick Water at level 1
3. Pick Earth at level 7
4. Wait for level 13
5. Pick Deadly Earth

Damn, I wonder how many months of theorycrafting went into figuring out this hidden, yet brilliant gem of a build. :lol:

To be fair, they did make the class ridiculously confusing, complex, and unconnected to anything else going on in the game, with a location out in the middle of nowhere and two (?) unappealing characters, so utterly broken late game is at least consistent. Poor Ranger Tony.

I’ve yet to touch anything having to do with that DLC and haven’t missed it. I guess Tiefling is at least interesting? Partial to human - feats and skills are good.

In contrast, Varnhold was great and getting into Depths as part of playthrough.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
Patron
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
14,978
Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Can't take the heat and using sjw tactics to ignore/ban people? Is this the Cael you want to be?

Picturing ghost Cael with his helmet off, partying with all the Ewoks...

Some trolls you just can’t reach.
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
21,618
I complained about Deadly Earth to the devs and their community guy forwarded it and I got a response that characters should get a reward for well built characters :hmmm:

1. Pick Kineticist
2. Pick Water at level 1
3. Pick Earth at level 7
4. Wait for level 13
5. Pick Deadly Earth

Damn, I wonder how many months of theorycrafting went into figuring out this hidden, yet brilliant gem of a build. :lol:

To be fair, they did make the class ridiculously confusing, complex, and unconnected to anything else going on in the game, with a location out in the middle of nowhere and two (?) unappealing characters, so utterly broken late game is at least consistent. Poor Ranger Tony.

I’ve yet to touch anything having to do with that DLC and haven’t missed it. I guess Tiefling is at least interesting? Partial to human - feats and skills are good.

In contrast, Varnhold was great and getting into Depths as part of playthrough.
I like both NPCs. I used each in different playthroughs. Both are powerful in their way even without Deadly Earth.
 

Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,977
Location
Russia
The cheeky business fire waifu is fine. Katara is meh I guess.
the class can go fuck itself, I wanted a Witch, and it could have been a tiefling witch with all the cute witch stuff.
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
Patron
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Messages
27,843
Location
Copenhagen
Pathfinder itself is pretty much "Josh Sawyer redesigns D&D 3.5
Grunker is that true

Well, not really, but I can sort of see the logic behind it: a) Pathfinder basically takes A LOT of extraneous rules "compilations" and codifies them into actual systems. The perfect example is Combat Maneuver Bonus instead of 3.5's mess of different rules (basically, Grapple, Trip, Bull Rush etc. all worked under individually unique rules in 3.5). How anyone could have anything against that is a mystery though. b) Pathfinder tones down (i.e. balances) a lot of the most obvious abuse-cases and more importantly: buffs a lot of the weakest classes. Rogue sneak attacks used to be utterly useless since everything was immune for lore reasons, and it is very sawyerist to dispel this immunity in service of game balance (i.e. make rogues actually fun to play...), ignoring "fluff"/lore issues. c) Pathfinder reduces rules diversity marginally in favor of game balance, strengthens core classes (meaning leveling in a single class can compete more with a sprawl of multiclassing, thus reducing the imperative to multiclass, though by no means nullifying it) and makes sure almost every level of experience has something unique to make progression more worthwhile - also an explicit Sawyer tactic.

I think one part where Pathfinder misses is that a lot of its prestige classes are neither interesting nor as strong as core classes - this was done on purpose to reduce the strength of 3.5's strictly stronger prestige classes (compared to core classes), but they overcompensated in many cases.

I guess on paper all of these things are pretty sawyerist, but where Pathfinder still defies sawyerism is that it still puts rules diversity squarely above game balance. As you know I think the design wars are pretty stupid, the important thing in systems design is to craft something which actually does the job it's trying to accomplish. 3.5's "job", its main strength, is having an insane variety, and Pathfinder is an attempt to preserve that while lessening the issues that variety causes, and I think they succeeded well in this, which is why I love the system. You still have a completely unbalanced system that skewers actual play so hard towards offence and against defense that initiative becomes ludicrisly important at high levels, but such things are the price you pay for such an amount of complexity, and Pathfinder pays a very low price in complexity reduction compared to how much better it works in actual play. (Incidentally, the problem of offense vs. defence and 1 Round Combat is why I support Kingmaker's choice to give absurd bumps to static defenses on harder difficulties - it's a very inelegant solution, but it beats the alternative of having milisecond combat, and PF:K's combat is already among the fastest in the genre on mid to high levels). To solve it would require iteration upon iteration with so much depth, and seeing as Pathfinder is already an iteration of one of the most iterated-upon systems in RPG history, it's probably not tenable to expect more :P

In that vein, I don't find the system very "sawyerist" because Sawyer would NEVER design a system with that amount of variety at the cost of game balance. So Pathfinder may have applied slightly sawyerist ideas to 3.5 (some of which are an objective good imo, like codifying the maneuver system), but the system itself is anything but sawyerist.
 
Last edited:

Yosharian

Arcane
Joined
May 28, 2018
Messages
10,606
Location
Grand Chien
Yeah I think a lot of Pathfinder's prestige classes are really shit and/or boring. But the core classes are generally quite good.
 

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