Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Desiderius]

The first clue is when it doesn’t get a thumbs down on Val’s feat selection. I don’t feel bad splashing monk for crane style on Val because:

(1) She’s the only lawful melee companion

(2) She already has the underwhelming dodge, so you’re not cheating prereqs.

(3) Fighting defensively actually fits her role.

She still doesn’t get Crane Wing because it shouldn’t work with a shield.

Most of munchkinman InEffect’s builds are built around this bug and the broken Vivi splash.

 

[Lawntoilet]

BTW do the DLCs affect the main-quest timer at all?

 

[Cryomancer]

In endless dungeon, i will probably create an Kall Su "cosplay", an LE sorcerer of silver draconic bloodline. Is the endless dungeon hard to solo?

 

[deuxhero]

I think he’s talking about hardcore min/maxing which I agree is pretty retarded when there is still blatantly broken shit like crane wing and vivi splash running around.

What's wrong with Crane Wing?

It's vastly inferior to actually killing the opponent.

 

[ArchAngel]

I think he’s talking about hardcore min/maxing which I agree is pretty retarded when there is still blatantly broken shit like crane wing and vivi splash running around.

What's wrong with Crane Wing?

It's vastly inferior to actually killing the opponent.

That is only true with turn based mod. On RTwP you are not nearly as efficient at killing stuff so tank and spank becomes more valuable.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

First, that's something players do, it has nothing to do with classes, by that definition, at which point the idea of a "munchkin class" doesn't make any sense whatsoever, as that would refer to classes that favor this playstyle, i.e. classes that are more powerful than others, i.e. vivisectionsts, pure cleric, kineticist, etc. A munchkin wouldn't be playing fucking paladins, because he's playing to "win", and "thematic coherence" has nothing to do with it, you absolute fucking tardbeast. That said, there is nothing "thematically incoherent" with a spellblade type character or a classic paladin - they are extremely well-established themes.

Makes perfect sense to me. Some classes are inherently munchkin, and pallies are a foremost example. They are the class that's typically OP in any competitive game (e.g. MMOs like WoW) because they combine the hardiness and melee power of a fighter (slightly nerfed) with the spell casting prowess of a priest/cleric (again somewhat nerfed), but this combination is almost always more powerful than pure classes.

That is, fundamentally, thematically, what Paladins are. You're the one trying to move the goalpost by reinterpreting terms like "munchkin" even when it makes no sense.

No, religious knights are knights with strong religious convictions. They are not on-demand spell casters as video game pallies. I dunno why this is so hard for you to grasp.

Boo-hoo, not everyone enjoys playing the same fucking commoner as you do, and prefers playing to a theme, and therefore it is the game's fault that you fucking suck, somehow. Boo-fucking-hoo.

You seem upset.

 

[Lawntoilet]

Some classes are inherently munchkin, and pallies are a foremost example. They are the class that's typically OP in any competitive game (e.g. MMOs like WoW) because they combine the hardiness and melee power of a fighter (slightly nerfed) with the spell casting prowess of a priest/cleric (again somewhat nerfed), but this combination is almost always more powerful than pure classes.

Yeah but not in Pathfinder which you'd realize if you played the game and weren't a fucking idiot.

No, religious knights are knights with strong religious convictions. They are not on-demand spell casters as video game pallies. I dunno why this is so hard for you to grasp.

The whole thematic basis for a Paladin is the 12 peers of Charlemagne, renowned for their piety. Devoted and pious characters who are favored by their God can cast spells in D&D and related systems, so the spells are the way in which their religious zeal is represented under the system rules. A non-retarded man would understand this.

 

[Efe]

pallies cast very few spells and certainly are not "on-demand casters"
what you are thinking of is crusader perhaps?

 

[Luckmann]

Some classes are inherently munchkin, and pallies are a foremost example.

They are the class that's typically OP in any competitive game (e.g. MMOs like WoW)

competitive game

like WoW

[Paladins are] typically OP

[in] WoW

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Yeah but not in Pathfinder which you'd realize if you played the game and weren't a fucking idiot.

But I have played the game, which I guess make you the fucking idiot.

The whole thematic basis for a Paladin is the 12 peers of Charlemagne, renowned for their piety. Devoted and pious characters who are favored by their God can cast spells in D&D and related systems, so the spells are the way in which their religious zeal is represented under the system rules. A non-retarded man would understand this.

Who cares what the basis for them is when the class is implemented in video games as a combination of a warrior and a caster? I would have no problem with them thematically if they, let's say, received +n hitpoints or +x morale due to their religious zeal, but they get a lot more than that. They get on-demand spells like lay-on-hands and channel energy and a shitton of other stuff. This makes them very shitty role-playing-wise, unless your role-playing is on renaissance-faire level.

blah blah copy-paste blah blah

Running out of arguments, my good man?

 

[Shadenuat]

god I thought Cael was annoying

 

[Cryomancer]

They are the class that's typically OP in any competitive game (e.g. MMOs like WoW) because they combine the hardiness and melee power of a fighter (slightly nerfed) with the spell casting prowess of a priest/cleric (again somewhat nerfed), but this combination is almost always more powerful than pure classes.

Paladins are restricted to tier 4 spells on PfK. So, no Miracles,Mass Cure Serious Wounds. About wow, is wow an RPG in the first place? IMO is not. Every lv "X" warlock is a clone of each other since the DNA of the char is the carnival clothing that they are wearing. Yes, on wow the IQ of your character is determined by the jacket that they are wearing. This to not mention BS mechanics like cooldown. Only because something is "op" in mmos, doesn't means that they are op in true RPG's.

 

[Lawntoilet]

But I have played the game, which I guess make you the fucking idiot.

You parsed that wrong, as a retarded man would. Only a fucking idiot would, after playing the game, think Paladins are OP.

Who cares what the basis for them is when the class is implemented in video games as a combination of a warrior and a caster? I would have no problem with them thematically if they, let's say, received +n hitpoints or +x morale due to their religious zeal, but they get a lot more than that.

"Who cares what the theme of the class is, it's only thematic if it's my idea"

 

[Nahel]

god I thought Cael was annoying

Cael is like the extrem purist, close to autism in a way. But at least he does know about what he is talking about(for PNP) and his opinion can be unserstood in a way. Porky seems like an epic casual using MMO balance to trash a single player game which is based on a specific license. Also he can't even understand that his interpreation of a class might not be universal. This is impressively retarded.

 

[Desiderius]

They are the class that's typically OP in any competitive game (e.g. MMOs like WoW) because they combine the hardiness and melee power of a fighter (slightly nerfed) with the spell casting prowess of a priest/cleric (again somewhat nerfed), but this combination is almost always more powerful than pure classes.

Paladins are restricted to tier 4 spells on PfK. So, no Miracles,Mass Cure Serious Wounds. About wow, is wow an RPG in the first place? IMO is not. Every lv "X" warlock is a clone of each other since the DNA of the char is the carnival clothing that they are wearing. Yes, on wow the IQ of your character is determined by the jacket that they are wearing. This to not mention BS mechanics like cooldown. Only because something is "op" in mmos, doesn't means that they are op in true RPG's.

The problem in P:K is that not only do you only get 4th lvl spells, but you only get them at 13th level. Of Paladin. So you can’t do all the fun splashes all the cool kids are doing. You can splash four levels of Sword Saint for all kinds of goodies or five of Porky’s beloved fighter for armor/weapon training (and the duelist gloves that go with them)/specialization and a million feats, but if you want the munchkinny goodness of Paladin you’re Pal all the way.

 

[Yosharian]

They are the class that's typically OP in any competitive game (e.g. MMOs like WoW) because they combine the hardiness and melee power of a fighter (slightly nerfed) with the spell casting prowess of a priest/cleric (again somewhat nerfed), but this combination is almost always more powerful than pure classes.

Paladins are restricted to tier 4 spells on PfK. So, no Miracles,Mass Cure Serious Wounds. About wow, is wow an RPG in the first place? IMO is not. Every lv "X" warlock is a clone of each other since the DNA of the char is the carnival clothing that they are wearing. Yes, on wow the IQ of your character is determined by the jacket that they are wearing. This to not mention BS mechanics like cooldown. Only because something is "op" in mmos, doesn't means that they are op in true RPG's.

The problem in P:K is that not only do you only get 4th lvl spells, but you only get them at 13th level. Of Paladin. So you can’t do all the fun splashes all the cool kids are doing. You can splash four levels of Sword Saint for all kinds of goodies or five of Porky’s beloved fighter for armor/weapon training (and the duelist gloves that go with them)/specialization and a million feats, but if you want the munchkinny goodness of Paladin you’re Pal all the way.

This wouldn't matter much if Paladin got really decent spells, for example the same way that Bard gets some really great unique spells.

But Pally spells are basically only good against Outsiders. I mean they are REALLY good against Outsiders. But against everything else, fucking meh.

 

[Desiderius]

They are the class that's typically OP in any competitive game (e.g. MMOs like WoW) because they combine the hardiness and melee power of a fighter (slightly nerfed) with the spell casting prowess of a priest/cleric (again somewhat nerfed), but this combination is almost always more powerful than pure classes.

Paladins are restricted to tier 4 spells on PfK. So, no Miracles,Mass Cure Serious Wounds. About wow, is wow an RPG in the first place? IMO is not. Every lv "X" warlock is a clone of each other since the DNA of the char is the carnival clothing that they are wearing. Yes, on wow the IQ of your character is determined by the jacket that they are wearing. This to not mention BS mechanics like cooldown. Only because something is "op" in mmos, doesn't means that they are op in true RPG's.

The problem in P:K is that not only do you only get 4th lvl spells, but you only get them at 13th level. Of Paladin. So you can’t do all the fun splashes all the cool kids are doing. You can splash four levels of Sword Saint for all kinds of goodies or five of Porky’s beloved fighter for armor/weapon training (and the duelist gloves that go with them)/specialization and a million feats, but if you want the munchkinny goodness of Paladin you’re Pal all the way.

This wouldn't matter much if Paladin got really decent spells, for example the same way that Bard gets some really great unique spells.

But Pally spells are basically only good against Outsiders. I mean they are REALLY good against Outsiders. But against everything else, fucking meh.

It matters very much that Pals only get Challenge Evil at lvl 4 while Bards get Hideous Laughter at lvl 1. Bards struggle to beat saves on offensive spells. Pals have it even harder.

Unlike Ranger the most unique Pal spells are offensive (though the undead Veil is nice) which makes the delay hurt them a lot more.

Pals are dece against evil in general, not just outsiders (though my Pal did just lay the wood in three wacks of a keen, holy Fauchard on Torpor today, femmo a equino, while everyone else stood and watched, so that was nice), but the poor implementation of heavy armor hits them the hardest as they don’t have the feats or the splash room to make up for it.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

I'm not big on paladins but I assume they'd suffer due to PFK being a fairly atypical campaign with not very many undead/evil enemies.

 

[Yosharian]

It matters very much that Pals only get Challenge Evil at lvl 4 while Bards get Hideous Laughter at lvl 1. Bards struggle to beat saves on offensive spells. Pals have it even harder.

Unlike Ranger the most unique Pal spells are offensive (though the undead Veil is nice) which makes the delay hurt them a lot more.

Pals are dece against evil in general, not just outsiders (though my Pal did just lay the wood in three wacks of a keen, holy Fauchard on Torpor today, femmo a equino, while everyone else stood and watched, so that was nice), but the poor implementation of heavy armor hits them the hardest as they don’t have the feats or the splash room to make up for it.

Ok that's true actually, but Paladins do get other things such as Divine Grace, Heavy Armor proficiency, Martial Weapon proficiency, full BAB progression, and so on.

Yes, evil as well as Outsiders, true also. Not all bad guys are evil though. Kingmaker's campaign is a perfect example of this.

I agree that Heavy Armor being weak overall in Pathfinder is one of the reasons why Paladins are relatively weak.

 

[Efe]

so what is a paladin good for?
saving throws?

 

[Yosharian]

so what is a paladin good for?
saving throws?

2 level dip to get Divine Grace and proficiencies. If you take Divine Hunter you can get Precise Shot for free.

That's it really

 

[Lawntoilet]

so what is a paladin good for?
saving throws?

And thematic reasons.

 

[Cryomancer]

I saw a lot of people complaining about arcane trickster and kineticist on PfK but Paladin in a campaign where undeads are rare in most chapters except one, is the first time... And note that Kineticists on pnp have access to aether infusions and wood infusions...

 

[Cael]

god I thought Cael was annoying

Cael is like the extrem purist, close to autism in a way. But at least he does know about what he is talking about(for PNP) and his opinion can be unserstood in a way. Porky seems like an epic casual using MMO balance to trash a single player game which is based on a specific license. Also he can't even understand that his interpreation of a class might not be universal. This is impressively retarded.

Shills hate those who know the system on which their shill game is based because those knowledgeable people can and will point out all that is broken about their shill game. Thus, they come up with all sorts of tactics to try and shut the knowledgeable people up, exactly like sjws with those who disagree with them and using the same tactics and lines of attack. In many ways, game/dev shills and sjws only differ in their object of shilling.

 

[smaug]

god I thought Cael was annoying

Cael is like the extrem purist, close to autism in a way. But at least he does know about what he is talking about(for PNP) and his opinion can be unserstood in a way. Porky seems like an epic casual using MMO balance to trash a single player game which is based on a specific license. Also he can't even understand that his interpreation of a class might not be universal. This is impressively retarded.

Shills hate those who know the system on which their shill game is based because those knowledgeable people can and will point out all that is broken about their shill game. Thus, they come up with all sorts of tactics to try and shut the knowledgeable people up, exactly like sjws with those who disagree with them and using the same tactics and lines of attack. In many ways, game/dev shills and sjws only differ in their object of shilling.

Did you play the game?