Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Desiderius]

Late game their song can also help with defense (+4 dodge AC is potentially very nice!).

Bards are also the only class with access to Good Hope, which is a very convenient party wide buff. Great dispensers of Haste, Blur, Greater Heroism, Improved Invisibility / Displacement.

They also get powerful Enchantment and sonic spells.

But after EE I also greatly value them for Dirge of Doom aoe scare, no save. Dazzling Display has been nerfed to a full round action and is a bit unwieldy now, particularly Turn Based. Bard comes to the rescue with his swift action song! Makes everyone's attacks so much more deadly (including his own with Shatter Defences and a sneak damage dip).

My poor pally was already so slow (effortless armor to the rescue - now a fan) but trying to get a Dazzle off is pathetic. Smite + Challenge Evil is hard enough although theoretically doable, but DD is only practical when letting mobs rush your whole team.

Last main was Sword Saint/Swordlord who would sneak in and open combat with Dazzling Display but absent that it’s hard to use properly.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Nigger my main characters have been an Ecclesitheurge, a Paladin, and an Eldritch Archer/Eldritch Magus, and all my parties are always themed if at at all possible, and I rarely sleep more than absolutely necessary. When I said git gud, I meant git gud.

It's like you are a parody of yourself. Everything you mention above is a munchkin class/kit. A pally is basically a warrior with spells, then you have an archer with spells, and another warrior with spells. None of these are themed in any coherent way, which is why you don't see them in movies, etc.

 

[oldmanpaco]

I know its been said before in this thread but cannot find it:

At what point should I do the DLC? Before Vanishing or after it starts? Or am completely off.

Also when to do the dungeon? Anytime?

 

[Luckmann]

It's like you are a parody of yourself. Everything you mention above is a munchkin class/kit.

Today I learned that:

• The worst Cleric archetype, the basic clothed priest represented by the ecclesitheurge, is "munchkin", regardless of build.
• Eldritch Archer/Eldritch Magus is "munchkin", despite being worse casters than even a basic wizard.
• Paladins. Fucking Paladins, the laughing stock of martials, are "munchkin".

I honestly have no idea what to say. I guess anything that doesn't tie one arm behind its back out of some demented principle and plays a commoner is munchkin.

Priests are not themed in any coherent way, which is why you don't see clerics in popular culture.

Paladins are not themed in any coherent way, which is why you don't see religious knights in popular culture.

Spellblades are not themed in any coherent way, which is why you don't see martial casters in popular culture.

You're a complete and utter fucking tool. I had a suspicion when you couldn't play the game, but now you've confirmed that this extends much further than that, PorkyTheMunchkin.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

ecclesitheurge is quite good
Tristian's domain choices are shit though

 

[Shadenuat]

Teurge + 1 Monk is like the best Cleric out there.
EA loses spell if misses which is eh
Paladin is probably the overall weakest martial in the game, even basic Fighter is tankier/more damaging. But since it's Pathfinder, weakest still means stronger than most other Paladins in D&D when spiced up with some multiclassing especially.

Tristian PRIMARY domain is no good maybe (pun intended), but as a Teurge he can still memorise 1 any extra spell from all domains so he can still cast faerie fire, or holy sword on your pet or fiery body on himself + he can get free maximize on all his fire spells and, well, priest Fire spells are actually better as flame strike is fire+holy damage and firestorm does not harm the party.

 

[Luckmann]

ecclesitheurge is quite good

It is, as it is still a Cleric. I was about to say that even so, it's the worst Cleric archetype there is, because you gain basically nothing, yet trade away your armor. But then I just remembered that Crusaders are a thing in PF:K, an archetype so objectively shit that I forgot that it existed.

Edit: Tristian makes for a surprisingly good straight-damage caster when paired with the holy sorcerer thingomatype in a Mystic Theurge. Of course, going straight damage as a caster in genera - and for clerics in particular - is a complete waste in terms of optimization, and Mystic Theurge is a terrible prestige class in a collection of terrible prestige classes. I still went with it, for storyfag reasons, but still.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

ecclesitheurge is quite good

It is, as it is still a Cleric. I was about to say that even so, it's the worst Cleric archetype there is, because you gain basically nothing, yet trade away your armor. But then I just remembered that Crusaders are a thing in PF:K, an archetype so objectively shit that I forgot that it existed.

Edit: Tristian makes for a surprisingly good straight-damage caster when paired with the holy sorcerer thingomatype in a Mystic Theurge. Of course, going straight damage as a caster in genera - and for clerics in particular, is a complete waste in terms of optimization, and Mystic Theurge is a terrible prestige class in a collection of terrible prestige classes. I still went with it, for storyfag reasons, but still.

Water domain ecclesitheurge is fantastic, a few other domains are quite good as well.

Tristian PRIMARY domain is no good maybe (pun intended), but as a Teurge he can still memorise 1 any extra spell from all domains so he can still cast faerie fire, or holy sword on your pet or fiery body on himself + he can get free maximize on all his fire spells and, well, priest Fire spells are actually better as flame strike is fire+holy damage and firestorm does not harm the party.

Yeah, but that's only because he's an ecclesitheurge(specifically, of Sarenrae) and has nothing to do with his domain.
His primary domain is completely wasted on an ecclesitheurge.

 

[Desiderius]

ecclesitheurge is quite good

It is, as it is still a Cleric. I was about to say that even so, it's the worst Cleric archetype there is, because you gain basically nothing, yet trade away your armor. But then I just remembered that Crusaders are a thing in PF:K, an archetype so objectively shit that I forgot that it existed.

Edit: Tristian makes for a surprisingly good straight-damage caster when paired with the holy sorcerer thingomatype in a Mystic Theurge. Of course, going straight damage as a caster in genera - and for clerics in particular, is a complete waste in terms of optimization, and Mystic Theurge is a terrible prestige class in a collection of terrible prestige classes. I still went with it, for storyfag reasons, but still.

Water domain ecclesitheurge is fantastic, a few other domains are quite good as well.

Tristian PRIMARY domain is no good maybe (pun intended), but as a Teurge he can still memorise 1 any extra spell from all domains so he can still cast faerie fire, or holy sword on your pet or fiery body on himself + he can get free maximize on all his fire spells and, well, priest Fire spells are actually better as flame strike is fire+holy damage and firestorm does not harm the party.

Yeah, but that's only because he's an ecclesitheurge(specifically, of Sarenrae) and has nothing to do with his domain.
His primary domain is completely wasted on an ecclesitheurge.

Touch of Good is responsible for more exp gains than all the trash mobs ever slain in this game.

I give him a ranger level to make perception a class skill and let him use a decent reach weapon. Triggers outflank and keeps him close enough for Archon’s Aura to do work but not too close.

 

[Desiderius]

ecclesitheurge is quite good

It is, as it is still a Cleric. I was about to say that even so, it's the worst Cleric archetype there is, because you gain basically nothing, yet trade away your armor. But then I just remembered that Crusaders are a thing in PF:K, an archetype so objectively shit that I forgot that it existed.

Edit: Tristian makes for a surprisingly good straight-damage caster when paired with the holy sorcerer thingomatype in a Mystic Theurge. Of course, going straight damage as a caster in genera - and for clerics in particular, is a complete waste in terms of optimization, and Mystic Theurge is a terrible prestige class in a collection of terrible prestige classes. I still went with it, for storyfag reasons, but still.

Water domain ecclesitheurge is fantastic, a few other domains are quite good as well.

Tristian PRIMARY domain is no good maybe (pun intended), but as a Teurge he can still memorise 1 any extra spell from all domains so he can still cast faerie fire, or holy sword on your pet or fiery body on himself + he can get free maximize on all his fire spells and, well, priest Fire spells are actually better as flame strike is fire+holy damage and firestorm does not harm the party.

Yeah, but that's only because he's an ecclesitheurge(specifically, of Sarenrae) and has nothing to do with his domain.
His primary domain is completely wasted on an ecclesitheurge.

Touch of Good is responsible for more exp gains than all the trash mobs ever slain in this game.

I give him a ranger level to make perception a class skill and let him use a decent reach weapon. Triggers outflank and keeps him close enough for Archon’s Aura to do work but not too close.

His extend metamagic is underrated.

 

[Desiderius]

ecclesitheurge is quite good

It is, as it is still a Cleric. I was about to say that even so, it's the worst Cleric archetype there is, because you gain basically nothing, yet trade away your armor. But then I just remembered that Crusaders are a thing in PF:K, an archetype so objectively shit that I forgot that it existed.

Edit: Tristian makes for a surprisingly good straight-damage caster when paired with the holy sorcerer thingomatype in a Mystic Theurge. Of course, going straight damage as a caster in genera - and for clerics in particular - is a complete waste in terms of optimization, and Mystic Theurge is a terrible prestige class in a collection of terrible prestige classes. I still went with it, for storyfag reasons, but still.

If you really get into how domains work, it’s hard to play any other cleric archetype, but that’s an advanced skill.

 

[Shadenuat]

I'd prefer Heighten as a lot more universal pick but Extended skellingtons is not bad as well.

 

[Desiderius]

I'd prefer Heighten as a lot more universal pick but Extended skellingtons is not bad as well.

In general I have more fun trying to make the spells at each level do work and saving the most valuable resource in the game (feats) for something else. With Tristan it’s already baked in the cake so mise.

High level extended Shield of Faith on Okbo FTW.

 

[ArchAngel]

Was browsing the Nexus mod page and saw two mods addressing flanking problems. Should I get Proper Flanking or Closer to Tabletop?

Edit: Anyone knows if Eldritch Arcana and Call of the Wild are compatible?

Get neither. AI does not how to use changed flanking, you just make the game much easier. You might as well turn down the difficulty by one.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Today I learned that:

• The worst Cleric archetype, the basic clothed priest represented by the ecclesitheurge, is "munchkin", regardless of build.
• Eldritch Archer/Eldritch Magus is "munchkin", despite being worse casters than even a basic wizard.
• Paladins. Fucking Paladins, the laughing stock of martials, are "munchkin".

I honestly have no idea what to say. I guess anything that doesn't tie one arm behind its back out of some demented principle and plays a commoner is munchkin.

Priests are not themed in any coherent way, which is why you don't see clerics in popular culture.

Paladins are not themed in any coherent way, which is why you don't see religious knights in popular culture.

Spellblades are not themed in any coherent way, which is why you don't see martial casters in popular culture.

You're a complete and utter fucking tool. I had a suspicion when you couldn't play the game, but now you've confirmed that this extends much further than that, PorkyTheMunchkin.

As always, you are missing the point. A munchkin is someone who plays to win vs playing to role play or get in character. Most of the classes you mentioned are pretty munchkin-y. They all combine completely different, thematically incoherent things. For example, a pally combines warrior aspects with spells. And don't try to move goalposts by saying "religious kngiht". Religious knights might get extra zeal or inspiration from their religion, but they don't fucking cast spells. Or an eldritch archer, who combines archery with spells, again completely incoherent.

When you told me these are the classes you play, well of course your munchkin arse wouldn't have any problems with the other things Stankmaker demands of you. Why not cast all the available spells, drink all the available potions, your characters are already a silly mismatch of patchwork bullshit. But I prefer pure characters.

 

[Yosharian]

Paladins are not particularly strong in Pathfinder, unless you are specifically fighting Outsiders all the time. Magus has some very strong aspects but ultimately isn't as strong as a properly-built Wizard. Eldritch Archer is a pretty strong archetype, but again, weak casting.

Ecclesitheurge... is still not as good as a Wizard.

Who gives a flying fuck if a class is 'coherently themed'. What a fucking dumb thing to talk about.

 

[Yosharian]

A munchkin is someone who plays to win vs playing to role play or get in character.

The idea that playing a powerful character is mutually exclusive with role-playing is fucking absurd.

 

[Lawntoilet]

Most of the classes you mentioned are pretty munchkin-y. They all combine completely different, thematically incoherent things. For example, a pally combines warrior aspects with spells. And don't try to move goalposts by saying "religious kngiht". Religious knights might get extra zeal or inspiration from their religion, but they don't fucking cast spells. Or an eldritch archer, who combines archery with spells, again completely incoherent.

Paladin as a religious knight is the whole identity of the class since its inception in D&D, it's not incoherent at all (and Paladins aren't especially strong in Kingmaker).
Eldritch Archer is basically a magical version of Hawkeye, a utility archer with different shooting tricks besides "I shoot an arrow." Also not incoherent at all.
Ecclesitheurge is a Priest who is more devoted to the religious side of being a Cleric than the martial side so they don't wear armor, like a Christian Monk (whose religious dedication allows them to access spells).
Your criticism of everyone who plays any spellcaster is pointless anyway, but to say they're "incoherent" is plain retarded.

 

[Cryomancer]

Anyone knows an good walktrought about House of Edge of Time with actual map showing where you need to go???

Got the third key thanks to a YT video. But don't know what to do. I hate this walking simulator parts where you need to foretell what to do but unfortunately it exists in most cRPG's. I an literally 5 hours walking in circles and ZERO clue about what to do. And litearlly every walktrought that i search or help is a lot of USELESS text that describles nothing and useless screenshots now showing the actual map and where i need to go. Is that hard to put an dan screenshot and mark on the map where i need to go after i got the third key? Hurts someone to show where i need to go? I can't stand more this walking simulator and black screen + loading screen simulator.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Anyone knows an good walktrought about House of Edge of Time with actual map showing where you need to go???

Got the third key thanks to a YT video. But don't know what to do. I hate this walking simulator parts where you need to foretell what to do but unfortunately it exists in most cRPG's. I an literally 5 hours walking in circles and ZERO clue about what to do. And litearlly every walktrought that i search or help is a lot of USELESS text that describles nothing and useless screenshots now showing the actual map and where i need to go. Is that hard to put an dan screenshot and mark on the map where i need to go after i got the third key? Hurts someone to show where i need to go? I can't stand more this walking simulator and black screen + loading screen simulator.

Pretty sure you're at the part that I raged at here:

of course one of the keys you need is hidden behind a random patch of mist that acts differently from the rest of the mist
fuck whoever designed this

aand froze at a loading screen
fuck it I'm shelving this

and nope, I don't remember where it is. Somewhere in the cellar I think.
What a terribly designed dungeon.

 

[Cryomancer]

Anyone knows an good walktrought about House of Edge of Time with actual map showing where you need to go???

Got the third key thanks to a YT video. But don't know what to do. I hate this walking simulator parts where you need to foretell what to do but unfortunately it exists in most cRPG's. I an literally 5 hours walking in circles and ZERO clue about what to do. And litearlly every walktrought that i search or help is a lot of USELESS text that describles nothing and useless screenshots now showing the actual map and where i need to go. Is that hard to put an dan screenshot and mark on the map where i need to go after i got the third key? Hurts someone to show where i need to go? I can't stand more this walking simulator and black screen + loading screen simulator.

Pretty sure you're at the part that I raged at here:

of course one of the keys you need is hidden behind a random patch of mist that acts differently from the rest of the mist
fuck whoever designed this

aand froze at a loading screen
fuck it I'm shelving this

and nope, I don't remember where it is. Somewhere in the cellar I think.
What a terribly designed dungeon.

No, you din't understood. I got the third key thanks to a YT video. But don't know what to do after i got this daan key.



But i agree. Worst designed dungeon that i saw from an long time... An walk simulator to foretell what to do is already annoying enough. Put tons of teleportation with loading screens is making is insanely frustrating.

 

[purpleblob]

You got all 3 keys? You can face Nyrissa now - go to the top floor and open the door in the south corner which lead you to the room in the middle.

There are other side quests (books and mirrors) but I'd say forget those. I managed to finish the book one which involves collecting 6 books hidden in both real and illusion version of the world but I never got around finishing the mirror one which involves touching the mirrors in correct order in both dimensions of the world.

 

[chuft]

So this game is based on D&D it seems.

I think BG translated a D&D combat round to 6 seconds. Does this game do something similar? Is it six seconds or something else?

Or is everyone playing it in TB mode?

 

[purpleblob]

It is 6 seconds per round.

I'm playing it in RTwP mode, and I love it

 

[chuft]

That sounds nice. I find the combat speed of PoE overwhelming compared to say BG.