Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Mr. Magniloquent]

I'm definitely getting caught up in the early game indecision. I keep restarting to tweak a build or alter party composition. I drastically prefer Wizards to Sorcerers in general, particularly for Arcane Tricksters (my favorite prestige class). Still, I am getting very strongly tempted to do a sorcerer. My preferred bloodline is arcane, and it works very well with an intelligence based sorcerer (for the skill points). I am also seriously contemplating an Elemental bloodline to take advantage of the elemental focus DC enhancements (Phantasmal Killer anyone?). The Serpentine Bloodline ability to use enchantments on beasts and monsters is also undeniably attractive. Enchantment and Illusions are my favorite schools. I build my AT like ordinary generalist control wizards. Maximum utilization of ray sneak attacks isn't a priority. I wish it were. That would make settling on a build much easier.

Just drop the trickster. You’ve got other toons to finish off disabled dudes.

You lose all the sweet, sweet bloodline stuff if you go trickster. The main broken thing about it - sneak dice on each Ray - was fixed awhile back. Now you’ve got solid but unspectacular chip damage that you just don’t need in group play.

The main features that I am interested in come early. Elemental bloodline has a modal which lets you convert any damage done by your spells into your bloodline element. Coupled with Elemental Focus, that's an easy way to get +2 DC on ANY spell that does damage, regardless of school. The Serpentine Bloodline has lost favor, as this game is bizarrely missing charm spells. Regardless, the type of challenges in this game are making the Sorcerer's spontaneous casting and few extra casts per day look more attractive.

 

[Desiderius]

I'm definitely getting caught up in the early game indecision. I keep restarting to tweak a build or alter party composition. I drastically prefer Wizards to Sorcerers in general, particularly for Arcane Tricksters (my favorite prestige class). Still, I am getting very strongly tempted to do a sorcerer. My preferred bloodline is arcane, and it works very well with an intelligence based sorcerer (for the skill points). I am also seriously contemplating an Elemental bloodline to take advantage of the elemental focus DC enhancements (Phantasmal Killer anyone?). The Serpentine Bloodline ability to use enchantments on beasts and monsters is also undeniably attractive. Enchantment and Illusions are my favorite schools. I build my AT like ordinary generalist control wizards. Maximum utilization of ray sneak attacks isn't a priority. I wish it were. That would make settling on a build much easier.

I'm definitely getting caught up in the early game indecision. I keep restarting to tweak a build or alter party composition. I drastically prefer Wizards to Sorcerers in general, particularly for Arcane Tricksters (my favorite prestige class). Still, I am getting very strongly tempted to do a sorcerer. My preferred bloodline is arcane, and it works very well with an intelligence based sorcerer (for the skill points). I am also seriously contemplating an Elemental bloodline to take advantage of the elemental focus DC enhancements (Phantasmal Killer anyone?). The Serpentine Bloodline ability to use enchantments on beasts and monsters is also undeniably attractive. Enchantment and Illusions are my favorite schools. I build my AT like ordinary generalist control wizards. Maximum utilization of ray sneak attacks isn't a priority. I wish it were. That would make settling on a build much easier.

Just drop the trickster. You’ve got other toons to finish off disabled dudes.

You lose all the sweet, sweet bloodline stuff if you go trickster. The main broken thing about it - sneak dice on each Ray - was fixed awhile back. Now you’ve got solid but unspectacular chip damage that you just don’t need in group play.

How is 12d6 to multiple enemies in a round "chip damage"?

Because Nok-nok does it six times a round for your one? 10 lvls of prestige to empower your fireballs.

 

[Desiderius]

I'm definitely getting caught up in the early game indecision. I keep restarting to tweak a build or alter party composition. I drastically prefer Wizards to Sorcerers in general, particularly for Arcane Tricksters (my favorite prestige class). Still, I am getting very strongly tempted to do a sorcerer. My preferred bloodline is arcane, and it works very well with an intelligence based sorcerer (for the skill points). I am also seriously contemplating an Elemental bloodline to take advantage of the elemental focus DC enhancements (Phantasmal Killer anyone?). The Serpentine Bloodline ability to use enchantments on beasts and monsters is also undeniably attractive. Enchantment and Illusions are my favorite schools. I build my AT like ordinary generalist control wizards. Maximum utilization of ray sneak attacks isn't a priority. I wish it were. That would make settling on a build much easier.

Just drop the trickster. You’ve got other toons to finish off disabled dudes.

You lose all the sweet, sweet bloodline stuff if you go trickster. The main broken thing about it - sneak dice on each Ray - was fixed awhile back. Now you’ve got solid but unspectacular chip damage that you just don’t need in group play.

The main features that I am interested in come early. Elemental bloodline has a modal which lets you convert any damage done by your spells into your bloodline element. Coupled with Elemental Focus, that's an easy way to get +2 DC on ANY spell that does damage, regardless of school. The Serpentine Bloodline has lost favor, as this game is bizarrely missing charm spells. Regardless, the type of challenges in this game are making the Sorcerer's spontaneous casting and few extra casts per day look more attractive.

Meh. I’ve always preferred weapon damage and spells that make that happen.

The old reliable. If you like enchantment and illusion you do too.

 

[Efe]

noknok doesnt do it to a whole room.

 

[Desiderius]

noknok doesnt do it to a whole room.

If they’re all fascinated he does. Pick your CC. Nuking is more for solo play.

 

[Desiderius]

noknok doesnt do it to a whole room.

Sure, once you’ve hit surprise spells. But as with Kineticist you’re comparing very finite resources with illimitable attacks.

The point is that now that rays are fixed so that sneak dice don’t trigger on each ray the ray-based AT turns out not to be as good at triggering sneak attacks as many other options.

I even prefer Eldritch Archer now for Octavia, but that’s a closer call.

 

[Efe]

he still does it 1 by 1?
comparing an opener aoe alpha strike to melee 1 person dps doesnt even make sense.
best case nok nok is walking to second victim at the timeframe ur AT bursted all over the room.

ur the one that said

10 lvls of prestige to empower your fireballs

, so im comparing it at 10

 

[Desiderius]

he still does it 1 by 1?
comparing an opener aoe alpha strike to melee 1 person dps doesnt even make sense.
best case nok nok is walking to second victim at the timeframe ur AT bursted all over the room.

ur the one that said

10 lvls of prestige to empower your fireballs

, so im comparing it at 10

Best case you’re hitting six (or more) mobs with your fireball. Nok just has to stand there. Again tho, you’ve got limited casts, he can go on for days.

Bloodline sorc gets several extra spells and feats to deal with more varied situations, and if he wants to nuke he doesn’t have to set things up perfectly to make it work, while still doing 70% of your damage.

Sneak dice every other level, damage dice every level. 2/3 is roughly 67%.

 

[Haplo]

What do you need more spells or feats for?

I will take far higher damage, thank you.

 

[Desiderius]

What do you need more spells or feats for?

I will take far higher damage, thank you.

Far higher? You admitted yourself on that pic you posted that the sneak damage was only a marginal piece.

As for feats, how about 3 levels worth of endgame exp from skill checks for starters? Not getting fried by Fey because you have blindfight? There are enough good feats too for casters who know what they’re doing to make things interesting, and extra spells are always welcome for sorcs.

Again, nuking everything is solo play, even if you’re dragging along five other toons to pick their noses and watch. There every point matters because it’s kill or be killed like D:OS.

If you’re working together with your team to keep things under control raw damage isn’t so crucial. With good team play your team does more damage than you could alone anyway.

 

[Yosharian]

There are so many trash mobs in Kingmaker I don't know how you stand building a party primarily for spell nuking.

 

[Cryomancer]

There are so many trash mobs in Kingmaker I don't know how you stand building a party primarily for spell nuking.

Yep, but trash mobs exists on other games too. The difference is that on dos2 for eg require long minutes, on pfkm you trow an fireball or an wail of the banshee depending the level and almost all of then die...

 

[Desiderius]

There are so many trash mobs in Kingmaker I don't know how you stand building a party primarily for spell nuking.

Yep, but trash mobs exists on other games too. The difference is that on dos2 for eg require long minutes, on pfkm you trow an fireball or an wail of the banshee depending the level and almost all of then die...

There are enough fights tho for that to mean a lot of resting. I like one rest per map max.

 

[_Vic_]

There are so many trash mobs in Kingmaker I don't know how you stand building a party primarily for spell nuking.

Yep, but trash mobs exists on other games too. The difference is that on dos2 for eg require long minutes, on pfkm you trow an fireball or an wail of the banshee depending the level and almost all of then die...

...Aaand that must be one of the very few things that DoS2 made better than P:K

 

[purpleblob]

There are so many trash mobs in Kingmaker I don't know how you stand building a party primarily for spell nuking.

Yep, but trash mobs exists on other games too. The difference is that on dos2 for eg require long minutes, on pfkm you trow an fireball or an wail of the banshee depending the level and almost all of then die...

There are enough fights tho for that to mean a lot of resting. I like one rest per map max.

You can always evade those random encounters... I only fought about 30 random encounters in 130-140 hours. And as mentioned above, it usually ends pretty quick.

 

[Cryomancer]

IMO they should allow you to remove random encounters on difficulty, but an small flaw doesn't make an game bad. PF:KM has problems. Sneak attack, few dungeons like house at the edge of time and bugs(most got fixed), but some critiques are ludicrous...

Some (dumb) complaints that i saw against PF:KM on internet

• I can't kill an swarm with an axe(classic)
• Enemies using chain armor drops chain armor. How dare his armor not being transformed into an random item??????
• There are too (many or few) enemies in a dungeon
• My cleric who was with CON damage got OHKilled and it is not my fault by letting him exposed
• I an dealing zero damage to skeletons even when i hit(probably with an sword)
• I need to use too many buffs(play with an class who require micromanaging or tries to tank with an rogue)
• Perma effects doesn't work on video games(despite it worked in many games an PF:KM allowing you to remove perma effects upon resting on the difficulty menu)
• I din't liked encounter X in a dungeon, so the 150+ hours of game is equally bad.
• The companions don't have an good story(only played one chapter and din't know anything about companion sidequests)
• Din't liked side/quest "A", so all the game is bad.
• Din't liked the kingdom management and don't wanna turn into effortless or automatic
• Din't liked soul eater encounter since i was with no cleric and din't lowered the difficulty or come back with an cleric an wards to protect from negative stats/level, so all the game is bad

 

[deuxhero]

About to enter Valley of the Dead. Wonder what to do with Tristain.

 

[_Vic_]

Just kill him with fire when you have the opportunity. Now you can use mercs as advisors (with a penalty) so he is not needed. I personally give him the "Yoshimo" treatment ever since they gave us that option.
Does not really matter what you do in the Valley of the dead with him, the outcome is the same. Your only choice is if you want the fight harder on you or not.

IMO they should allow you to remove random encounters on difficulty, but an small flaw doesn't make an game bad. PF:KM has problems. Sneak attack, few dungeons like house at the edge of time and bugs(most got fixed), but some critiques are ludicrous...

Some (dumb) complaints that i saw against PF:KM on internet

• I can't kill an swarm with an axe(classic)
• Enemies using chain armor drops chain armor. How dare his armor not being transformed into an random item??????
• There are too (many or few) enemies in a dungeon
• My cleric who was with CON damage got OHKilled and it is not my fault by letting him exposed
• I an dealing zero damage to skeletons even when i hit(probably with an sword)
• I need to use too many buffs(play with an class who require micromanaging or tries to tank with an rogue)
• Perma effects doesn't work on video games(despite it worked in many games an PF:KM allowing you to remove perma effects upon resting on the difficulty menu)
• I din't liked encounter X in a dungeon, so the 150+ hours of game is equally bad.
• The companions don't have an good story(only played one chapter and din't know anything about companion sidequests)
• Din't liked side/quest "A", so all the game is bad.
• Din't liked the kingdom management and don't wanna turn into effortless or automatic
• Din't liked soul eater encounter since i was with no cleric and din't lowered the difficulty or come back with an cleric an wards to protect from negative stats/level, so all the game is bad

I do not really know why there are so many complaints about DR in the net, not only in this game, in several of them.

If all enemies have no resistances, so you can hurt them with all types of damage (like in dungeon siege, for example) what is the point of having different weapon types or skills with different elemental damage?

I also heard complaints about (just sit down before you hear it) the inventory. "Too many things in there" "it is a chore to pick/equip/store/sell so many things"
I suppose they want the things in the floor picked when they run over them so they will be magically stored in a place you do not have access to and auto sell things in the floor when you run over them too.
Inventory management in P:K is the same as in any RPG, no more, not less.

 

[Cryomancer]

I also heard complaints about (just sit down before you hear it) the inventory. "Too many things in there" "it is a chore to pick/equip/store/sell so many things"

The game needs an inventory filter, so you wanna check if you have anitem, you can "type" instead of manually search. But lets be honest, inventory and gettings item on PFKM has more QOL features like autoloot on leaving an dungeon than in most cRPG's...

 

[deuxhero]

S0rcererV1ct0r
That and being able to bulk select items so I don't have to click on every single masterwork dagger to sell it. I do think they should adopt the system used in that shitty 2004 Bard's Tale "Remake" where art items that exists only to be sold (unenchanted rings, gems, hides ect.) are automatically converted into wealth. It's accurate to PnP PF anyways, since such items are supposed to be interchangeable with currency to the point treasure lists often include things like "the dragon's bed includes 20,000 GP worth of gems, coins and silks" instead of "10,000 GP of coins, a ruby worth 1,000, a sapphire worth X...".

 

[jf8350143]

Just kill him with fire when you have the opportunity. Now you can use mercs as advisors (with a penalty) so he is not needed. I personally give him the "Yoshimo" treatment ever since they gave us that option.
Does not really matter what you do in the Valley of the dead with him, the outcome is the same. Your only choice is if you want the fight harder on you or not.

IMO they should allow you to remove random encounters on difficulty, but an small flaw doesn't make an game bad. PF:KM has problems. Sneak attack, few dungeons like house at the edge of time and bugs(most got fixed), but some critiques are ludicrous...

Some (dumb) complaints that i saw against PF:KM on internet

• I can't kill an swarm with an axe(classic)
• Enemies using chain armor drops chain armor. How dare his armor not being transformed into an random item??????
• There are too (many or few) enemies in a dungeon
• My cleric who was with CON damage got OHKilled and it is not my fault by letting him exposed
• I an dealing zero damage to skeletons even when i hit(probably with an sword)
• I need to use too many buffs(play with an class who require micromanaging or tries to tank with an rogue)
• Perma effects doesn't work on video games(despite it worked in many games an PF:KM allowing you to remove perma effects upon resting on the difficulty menu)
• I din't liked encounter X in a dungeon, so the 150+ hours of game is equally bad.
• The companions don't have an good story(only played one chapter and din't know anything about companion sidequests)
• Din't liked side/quest "A", so all the game is bad.
• Din't liked the kingdom management and don't wanna turn into effortless or automatic
• Din't liked soul eater encounter since i was with no cleric and din't lowered the difficulty or come back with an cleric an wards to protect from negative stats/level, so all the game is bad

I do not really know why there are so many complaints about DR in the net, not only in this game, in several of them.

If all enemies have no resistances, so you can hurt them with all types of damage (like in dungeon siege, for example) what is the point of having different weapon types or skills with different elemental damage?

I also heard complaints about (just sit down before you hear it) the inventory. "Too many things in there" "it is a chore to pick/equip/store/sell so many things"
I suppose they want the things in the floor picked when they run over them so they will be magically stored in a place you do not have access to and auto sell things in the floor when you run over them too.
Inventory management in P:K is the same as in any RPG, no more, not less.

It is a chore to pick every potion/gold/scroll/gems you want from the map but can't use loot all because every corpse has some shitty armor on it.

 

[deuxhero]

In Morrowind you could drag items you don't want off the item menu to drop it on the ground, then hit take all. It's an easy solution for that issue I'm disapointed more games didn't include, just like the ability to hold control to take one item from a stack or shift to take all of them at once.

Kingmaker doesn't have the worst UI, or even a particularlly bad one, but there's absolutely room for improvement.

 

[Yosharian]

I don't completely disagree with some of those statements, such as there being too many trash mobs.

I'm not talking about huge packs of mobs that can be Wailed or Weirded, I'm talking about lots and lots of separate encounters that act primarily to pad out dungeons.

 

[Desiderius]

There are so many trash mobs in Kingmaker I don't know how you stand building a party primarily for spell nuking.

Yep, but trash mobs exists on other games too. The difference is that on dos2 for eg require long minutes, on pfkm you trow an fireball or an wail of the banshee depending the level and almost all of then die...

There are enough fights tho for that to mean a lot of resting. I like one rest per map max.

You can always evade those random encounters... I only fought about 30 random encounters in 130-140 hours. And as mentioned above, it usually ends pretty quick.

I never evade unless I’m super gassed in a high level area. Exp is a finite resource everywhere but random encounters. I want all I can get.

But even in the major dungeons you’ve got enough fights that nuking everything means resting several times while using extended buffs with good tactics means taking the whole map in one go.

 

[Haplo]

What do you need more spells or feats for?

I will take far higher damage, thank you.

Far higher? You admitted yourself on that pic you posted that the sneak damage was only a marginal piece.

As for feats, how about 3 levels worth of endgame exp from skill checks for starters? Not getting fried by Fey because you have blindfight? There are enough good feats too for casters who know what they’re doing to make things interesting, and extra spells are always welcome for sorcs.

Again, nuking everything is solo play, even if you’re dragging along five other toons to pick their noses and watch. There every point matters because it’s kill or be killed like D:OS.

If you’re working together with your team to keep things under control raw damage isn’t so crucial. With good team play your team does more damage than you could alone anyway.

Yeah, for maximized empowered Stormbolts, it's only a bit more then 30% extra damage. Still, what else offers 30% more damage?
For many lower level spells, maybe without all that metamagic, it's often literally DOUBLING your damage output. Sometimes much more, like in case of Vulcanic Eruption/Ice Storm.

Before I mostly used Octavia for buffing and some CC too. But eventually, when she reached AT10... why CC, when you can kill most enemies outright? Death is the ultimate CC.