Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Desiderius]

could have been worse...
could have been making octavia an archer

Don’t encourage him, Haplo, you’re a better player than that. We’ve all seen the videos of high level arcane casters soloing unfair. It’s not a waste to go for a different experience as long as it’s viable. And, with a lot more work than I anticipated, my Octavia is while also fitting my play style better.

And thanks to the advice of this forum she hasn’t quit her day job. I was wrong about this Octavia having Shatter - she has spell pen, focus Evo, and specialization Battering Blast, since it’s the lawful play through with the Pal MC, Ekun is a fixture using Devourer so Octavia doesn’t need as much help to hit.

She just laid down a nice Obsidian Flow to cover my flank at the end of the color button dungeon (cleared with no rests to keep Chocolate Ice Cream up), then put the offside Cleric in an Acid Pit and followed it up with blowing out the Twisted Sisters (a 23DC Slow maybe?). That fight also saw the debut of Litany of Eloquence from my Ring of Reckless Courage Pal on one of the Sisters. Swift action FTW.

The fact that Octavia still casts in the big fights is not a flaw, it’s the whole point. Because she’s pulling her weight on DPS in the routine fights with regular attacks she has a lot more spells available for the big ones.

It's fine if you like it... but still a bit of a waste IMO. You invest a lot of feats and effort, then comes the end game and you're constantly fighting ghosts and golems, you can't shatter them, you rarely can sneak them and you mostly can't hit them (particularly Greater Golems).
At least my ranged bard Jaethal mostly can't.
Meanwhile Star Commander's Gloves shoot 3x ranged touch attacks as a Standard action unlimited times per day with no feat investment and hit no problem.

She’s taking more babysitting than I’d like to get the sneaks to trigger. Probably better in turn-based. She’s nice for taking out the trash fast but all the immunities and what not are annoying. Since I ended up keeping Ekun for this playthrough after all so she gets a +3 bow and doesn’t need shatter to hit (only extra bow feat she has at this point is rapid fire), but she really relies on sneaks to do decent damage.

In other news, enlarged Pal with holy Tempest owns Thanadaemons with help from Okbo’s holy claws sickening them, lol. Tristan finally gets to use all his crappy evil-fighting spells and abilities. Several of the special Pal abilities and spells are long duration, which is nice. If only Harrim could get Touch of Chaos, Mass it would cut down on the Zombie Doofus nat 20s.

 

[skaraher]

You can't have 9th level spell tho if you go sorcerer/theurge no ?

Depends how much levels you pick on theurge

Actually no. To take theurge you must be 4 Sorc and 3 Cle, so it doesn't matter how many theurge level you pick (as it gives you cast level in both) you can't achieve Cle level 17 or Sorc level 18 (thus 9th level spell) regardless of how many level you put in theurge.

 

[Shadenuat]

I take it Magus making unlimited attacks per round with Quicken touch spells is special bug of TB mode. Wonder where the gap in the code is, problem is probably magus touch ability which not only carries an attack but also carries all other attacks they have over after the touch spell attack. In RTwP 6 sec cooldown probably prevents that.

or maybe quicken rod/rod of fear is just broken in TB

 

[Desiderius]

Mystic Theurge is dangerously close to trap option in the main campaign. With leveling curve in P:K with 2/3 of game spent at low-medium levels (<15) it is underpowered for way too long. All important buffs from divine side - Communal versions of Delay Poison, Resist Energy, Protection from Energy not available when they are needed the most, and wizard side lags a lot on DC + Damage + Duration for all important spells.

It could work with severe XP hoarding through skill checks or in small party with xp-sharing off, but in classic 6-man it is barely more than buff-bot with delayed access to the buffs.

Roahin has a theurge build for Tristan that spams AoE damage spells without worrying much about DCs.

 

[Desiderius]

Just finished the game this week as a straight forward Paladin on Challenging, achieved level 20 just after killing the Forefather and before final fight in the capital, nice to see the level progression now fits with the scope of the game. Plenty of time to develop all kingdoms stats to X and still get 60 days or so of free roam before Night of a Thousand Scream, so I guess balance issues peoples were harping on about got fixed. Overall a solid experience from start to end with no game bugs breaking left.

Thinking of doing another run this time as evil dictator for shit and giggles, with mostly evil party (Jaethal, Regongar, Nok Nok, Tiefling sister, maybe Val as tank or Harrim as buffbot) is Mystic Theurge any good or is it a trap option ?

Also I saw from official post that Varnhold's Lot actually as 4 endings:

Spoiler

-Refuse the wish and come back at Act 7 as ally
-Be good and accept wish, you come back at Act 4
-Be evil and accept wish, you become a mimic lord and main character kills you
-Betray Varn and accept wish, you are promised Varnhold and come back at Act 7 as an enemy

Has anyone gotten the fourth one ? Don't see many reports about it.

My Pal keeps getting better. Pal Divine Weapon Bond is min/lvl (Magi have to spend a feat for that, and the domain version is super short). Axiomatic is +2d6 against any Chaotic, Holy vs Evil, once you get the second activation you can pretty much keep it up all the time along with keen. Been using Tempest Greataxe +3, +2d6 electric, speed.

Full BAB too so she’s really been laying the wood.

Chaotic and neutral runs both open up several different options so far. Let us know how evil goes.

 

[skaraher]

Pal only gets cool stuff, Mark of Justice allow the whole party to tear down any evil aligned boss, and after some progression, Divine Weapon can transform your weapon into touch attacks. Also you got one aura spell to make whole party immune to fear for several hours and your lay of hands cures blind, curse, confuse, sick etc You won't be the best damage dealer or tank in the party, but it really shines especially at higher levels

 

[Desiderius]

Pal only gets cool stuff, Mark of Justice allow the whole party to tear down any evil aligned boss, and after some progression, Divine Weapon can transform your weapon into touch attacks. Also you got one aura spell to make whole party immune to fear for several hours and your lay of hands cures blind, curse, confuse, sick etc You won't be the best damage dealer or tank in the party, but it really shines especially at higher levels

Mark of Justice is win more. You’re already blowing out evil stuff on your own. I was really impressed by the duration on the fear aura spell.

I’ve got Hospitaler with death immunity/aura instead. So nice. Heals like crazy too (outside of combat). She’s been dealing plenty of damage lately.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Most of the hard stuff in PFK isn't evil though

 

[Desiderius]

could have been worse...
could have been making octavia an archer

Don’t encourage him, Haplo, you’re a better player than that. We’ve all seen the videos of high level arcane casters soloing unfair. It’s not a waste to go for a different experience as long as it’s viable. And, with a lot more work than I anticipated, my Octavia is while also fitting my play style better.

And thanks to the advice of this forum she hasn’t quit her day job. I was wrong about this Octavia having Shatter - she has spell pen, focus Evo, and specialization Battering Blast, since it’s the lawful play through with the Pal MC, Ekun is a fixture using Devourer so Octavia doesn’t need as much help to hit.

She just laid down a nice Obsidian Flow to cover my flank at the end of the color button dungeon (cleared with no rests to keep Chocolate Ice Cream up), then put the offside Cleric in an Acid Pit and followed it up with blowing out the Twisted Sisters (a 23DC Slow maybe?). That fight also saw the debut of Litany of Eloquence from my Ring of Reckless Courage Pal on one of the Sisters. Swift action FTW.

The fact that Octavia still casts in the big fights is not a flaw, it’s the whole point. Because she’s pulling her weight on DPS in the routine fights with regular attacks she has a lot more spells available for the big ones.

It's fine if you like it... but still a bit of a waste IMO. You invest a lot of feats and effort, then comes the end game and you're constantly fighting ghosts and golems, you can't shatter them, you rarely can sneak them and you mostly can't hit them (particularly Greater Golems).
At least my ranged bard Jaethal mostly can't.
Meanwhile Star Commander's Gloves shoot 3x ranged touch attacks as a Standard action unlimited times per day with no feat investment and hit no problem.

She’s taking more babysitting than I’d like to get the sneaks to trigger. Probably better in turn-based. She’s nice for taking out the trash fast but all the immunities and what not are annoying. Since I ended up keeping Ekun for this playthrough after all so she gets a +3 bow and doesn’t need shatter to hit (only extra bow feat she has at this point is rapid fire), but she really relies on sneaks to do decent damage.

In other news, enlarged Pal with holy Tempest owns Thanadaemons with help from Okbo’s holy claws sickening them, lol. Tristan finally gets to use all his crappy evil-fighting spells and abilities. Several of the special Pal abilities and spells are long duration, which is nice. If only Harrim could get Touch of Chaos, Mass it would cut down on the Zombie Doofus nat 20s.

Speed Javelin +3 from flintrock grassland. 30 ft range keeps the sneaks ticking. Four full attacks per round. Simple weapon.

Bingo.

Lol. No Hurricane Bow. She should be spamming hastes with that extend necklace anyway. The javelin does rack up the sneak attacks tho.

 

[Desiderius]

Most of the hard stuff in PFK isn't evil though

It is chaotic tho so Axiomatic weapon at min/lvl is very nice.

 

[Cael]

Mystic Theurge is dangerously close to trap option in the main campaign. With leveling curve in P:K with 2/3 of game spent at low-medium levels (<15) it is underpowered for way too long. All important buffs from divine side - Communal versions of Delay Poison, Resist Energy, Protection from Energy not available when they are needed the most, and wizard side lags a lot on DC + Damage + Duration for all important spells.

It could work with severe XP hoarding through skill checks or in small party with xp-sharing off, but in classic 6-man it is barely more than buff-bot with delayed access to the buffs.

MT is a trap in ANY campaign. The only time when it is not is if you have a second MT type PrC that you can get access to and you can shortcut the requirements. That usually means abusing Versatile Spellcaster in 3.5.

 

[Haplo]

Magus also gets Holy/Axiomatic (or Anarchic/Unholy, depending on alignment) with Divine Weapon Arcana. Of course, there is a choice involved. You probably want Bane at 15, so at 12 and 18 you need to choose between Divine, Ghost (also includes Brilliant Energy), Dimension Strike (boss killer, resolve attacks as touch for 1 round) - also Spell Blending if you have EA mod (particularly on SS) - but then you can also pick Extra Arcana feats.

Brilliant Energy is not nearly as nice as I had hoped BTW (but Ghost Touch is great late game).

 

[purpleblob]

I'm trying out a few different classes for the first time.

For the Kineticist Knight tank, I decided to keep it simple and go with Earth element only. Seems to work quite well so far. Should I just put points into CON and DEX?

Also trying out Slayer with a glaive, she is wrecking havoc - studied enemy is OP imo.

Mystic Theurge is underwhelming at the moment. I'm currently level 10 (cleric 3/empyreal sorceress 4/MT 3) and I'm just busy managing all the spells without much benefit

 

[Haplo]

KK - Con & Dex is fine. Physical only is a bit limiting. Against some enemies it's better to use energy, because they are tough to hit. Plus I'm not sure pure physical will work against some enemies (like ghosts).
Also there's nice utility in other elements - air Celerity (haste) and Evasion, water heal, water shield /armor.

 

[purpleblob]

Hmm I might choose water as second element then, thanks for the tip Haplo

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

The whole weapon enchant stuff would be more impressive, regardless if from paladin or magus, if other enchantments wouldn't drop off once you have a powerful weapon.

 

[ArchAngel]

Hmm I might choose water as second element then, thanks for the tip Haplo

You want air or fire or you are going to hate end game. Ghosts are immune to physical and cold.

 

[purpleblob]

Hmm I might choose water as second element then, thanks for the tip Haplo

You want air or fire or you are going to hate end game. Ghosts are immune to physical and cold.

Gah >.> ok, maybe air then.

 

[Sergiu64]

What do you guys do with Jaethal? She seems like she can be so many good things... but then the fact that she can only get healed by negative energy makes me feel like I'm either stuck making her an archer or am forced to make her something Divine so that she can heal herself. Is there anything good about the Inquisitor?

 

[ArchAngel]

What do you guys do with Jaethal? She seems like she can be so many good things... but then the fact that she can only get healed by negative energy makes me feel like I'm either stuck making her an archer or am forced to make her something Divine so that she can heal herself. Is there anything good about the Inquisitor?

Inquisitor makes her a good tank and buff support if you get her a shield. You get plenty of spontaneous spells and inquisitor abilities give bonus AC and saves.

And if you got another tank you can also go offense easily with same abilities and feats.
Later she gets her own enlarge spell so she can safely hit stuff from 2nd row.

 

[Sergiu64]

Later she gets her own enlarge spell so she can safely hit stuff from 2nd row.

Thought enlarge doesn't work on her because she's undead? This is some kind of special enlarge?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

I thought Inquisitor was awful but I'm not a huge PF fan, maybe there's something I'm missing.

 

[Cryomancer]

The unique "non D&D 3.5e class" that i liked is Alchemist and Kineticist.

I loved the archetype for some classes and multiple bloodlines for sorcerers, but IMO most PAthfinder exclusive classes are awful. Inquisitor is not that different than a Paladin, Magus requires tons of micromanaging. IMO they should have added Witch, Summoner and Shifter classes instead of this two.

 

[Efe]

they should have added witch summoner and shifter in addition to those two.
why would you ever ask for less?

 

[ArchAngel]

Later she gets her own enlarge spell so she can safely hit stuff from 2nd row.

Thought enlarge doesn't work on her because she's undead? This is some kind of special enlarge?

Righteous Might works.