Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Haplo]

Main thing about Kineticist imho to start with energy blast to avoid issues with hitting things and this leaves only: Fire, Electricity and Cold. Cold is most resisted so useless.

In result Fire is the best for standard Kineticist for Earth or Air combos for persistent AoE (Deadly Earth or/and Cloud) and Electricity is good for Kinetic Knight since he loses all non-blade AoE anyway.

That was my line of thinking too. However the discovery that Blade Whirlwind ALWAYS costs 0 Burn, even Composite Infused and the fact that as a Standard action, it is one of the absolute top abilities to use with the Turn Based mod, lead to to think that Fire->Earth (with Bowling Infusion) is sadly also the best combo for a KK. Although you can possibly postpone one of these elements till the 2nd Extended Element.
Having Celerity from Electric sure was great for my party. And also Electric with Magnetic is nice party support for difficult to hit bosses.

 

[Jarpie]

Came across this:

 

[Desiderius]

So can someone recommend a useful but not broken (no AoE trips pls, not playing solo) build for Kalikke that uses the kinetic blade she already spent a feat on? How long does it last? Is it one burn per swing? Everything about that class is a mystery.

 

[Desiderius]

So can someone recommend a useful but not broken (no AoE trips pls, not playing solo) build for Kalikke that uses the kinetic blade she already spent a feat on? How long does it last? Is it one burn per swing? Everything about that class is a mystery.

Octavia hit 13 with caster level 9 making Sense Vitals worth it, so now four attacks with 8 sneak dice each and that jav keeps her in sneak range nicely. She’s shredding it.

 

[Haplo]

So can someone recommend a useful but not broken (no AoE trips pls, not playing solo) build for Kalikke that uses the kinetic blade she already spent a feat on? How long does it last? Is it one burn per swing? Everything about that class is a mystery.

Blade duration is unlimited. However each swing costs burn if the total cost (blast + infusion) is higher then discounts. Basically simple blasts are free, but composite always cost burn - unless you use Gather Power - but a Standard action single target single blast attack in a round with no range is not exactly impressive.

Kalikke can't pick monk, so is not ideal to be a frontline melee blade user.

 

[Desiderius]

So can someone recommend a useful but not broken (no AoE trips pls, not playing solo) build for Kalikke that uses the kinetic blade she already spent a feat on? How long does it last? Is it one burn per swing? Everything about that class is a mystery.

Blade duration is unlimited. However each swing costs burn if the total cost (blast + infusion) is higher then discounts. Basically simple blasts are free, but composite always cost burn - unless you use Gather Power - but a Standard action single target single blast attack in a round with no range is not exactly impressive.

Kalikke can't pick monk, so is not ideal to be a frontline melee blade user.

So she could gather while tanks engage then charge in with some composite blast with her advantage being targeting touch? Can she vital strike with kinetic blade? Cleave? Can she finesse the blade? Get DEX to damage?

 

[Haplo]

Guess that's possible. Or she could use regular ranged blasts using move actions to gather power and use composite blasts twice as often...

Only composite blast that targets touch is Blue Flame - needs double fire, so not available to her. Rather Blade users just focus on spamming simple blast attacks.

Finesse yes, Dex to damage - no (neither Str, BTW, they add Con/half Con, depending on blast type).
Vital Strike no, Cleave not sure, probably not. Anyway Blade Whirlwind is strictly superior. But a KK is a strictly superior Whirlwind user - unless regular Kins also Whirl at 0 burn regardless of blast type & infusions used.

 

[Desiderius]

Well, melee Kalikke is promising.

You can get dodge from air so crane wing is doable, it’s not like ranged kineticists have many feats they can actually use. Might as well get in there since the blade is finesseable and you can get outflank goodness. DEX to damage is kind of moot with the numbers you’re getting by mid-levels. I’m at lvl 14 at she’s 35-105 per swing, half bludgeoning, half electric. Each point of burn is another point to hit plus you can boost your physical attributes with enough burn.

You can also go greater bull rush (the one where you get the AoOs - regular for some reason is the other way around) with pushing infusion to take advantage of her water feats.

 

[Haplo]

Or, you know, with haste and simple electric blast she'd attack 3x per round (for half damage, although maybe you can empower?), targeting touch AC.

 

[Desiderius]

Or, you know, with haste and simple electric blast she'd attack 3x per round (for half damage, although maybe you can empower?), targeting touch AC.

As Efe would say, what a waste. She’s pretty tanky with the water stuff, high dex, and Crane. She’s stuck with phys, might as well make the best of it. Bludgeoning does have its uses. She’s definitely hasty though - that’s one way to get her overflow going.

Oddly similar to Octavia. You even have to go through hoops to override the piddly auto-attack. Main difference is you’re not stuck with that no-BAB rogue level.

Can’t believe Haplo if all people doesn’t want to max damage.

 

[ArchAngel]

Or, you know, with haste and simple electric blast she'd attack 3x per round (for half damage, although maybe you can empower?), targeting touch AC.

As Efe would say, what a waste. She’s pretty tanky with the water stuff, high dex, and Crane. She’s stuck with phys, might as well make the best of it. Bludgeoning does have its uses. She’s definitely hasty though - that’s one way to get her overflow going.

Oddly similar to Octavia. You even have to go through hoops to override the piddly auto-attack. Main difference is you’re not stuck with that no-BAB rogue level.

Can’t believe Haplo if all people doesn’t want to max damage.

Melee is not using the best of it. Her bab is not good and she cannot use enchanted blades to buff it. Also it is not considered magical so many enemies will reduce its damage.

Using the best of it is taking aoe shapes and force enemies to roll a reflex save vs it until you can grab electricity or fire and wait until you can grab deadly earth.

 

[ArchAngel]

So can someone recommend a useful but not broken (no AoE trips pls, not playing solo) build for Kalikke that uses the kinetic blade she already spent a feat on? How long does it last? Is it one burn per swing? Everything about that class is a mystery.

Octavia hit 13 with caster level 9 making Sense Vitals worth it, so now four attacks with 8 sneak dice each and that jav keeps her in sneak range nicely. She’s shredding it.

Vs random mooks you don' need her shreding it. What you are missing is 3x 6d6 maximized plus sneak plus 4d6 from sense vitals that you would get by scorching ray. And all 3 attacks have a really good chance to hit. Not to mention next level she would hit lvl 7 spells and lvl 10 AT and all the goodies from that. Not worth having an average archer instead.

 

[Efe]

just let him play however he wants.
its not like hes asking for help

 

[razvedchiki]

Came across this:

King baba yaga
So do the endless depths add anything to the main game or are meant to be played independently.

 

[santino27]

So do the endless depths add anything to the main game or are meant to be played independently.

Depends what you mean by 'add' really. In the campaign, it works as a gated dungeon with some decent drops and encounters, but it's otherwise fairly superfluous to the main plotline.

 

[Desiderius]

Or, you know, with haste and simple electric blast she'd attack 3x per round (for half damage, although maybe you can empower?), targeting touch AC.

As Efe would say, what a waste. She’s pretty tanky with the water stuff, high dex, and Crane. She’s stuck with phys, might as well make the best of it. Bludgeoning does have its uses. She’s definitely hasty though - that’s one way to get her overflow going.

Oddly similar to Octavia. You even have to go through hoops to override the piddly auto-attack. Main difference is you’re not stuck with that no-BAB rogue level.

Or, you know, with haste and simple electric blast she'd attack 3x per round (for half damage, although maybe you can empower?), targeting touch AC.

As Efe would say, what a waste. She’s pretty tanky with the water stuff, high dex, and Crane. She’s stuck with phys, might as well make the best of it. Bludgeoning does have its uses. She’s definitely hasty though - that’s one way to get her overflow going.

Oddly similar to Octavia. You even have to go through hoops to override the piddly auto-attack. Main difference is you’re not stuck with that no-BAB rogue level.

Can’t believe Haplo if all people doesn’t want to max damage.

Melee is not using the best of it. Her bab is not good and she cannot use enchanted blades to buff it. Also it is not considered magical so many enemies will reduce its damage.

Using the best of it is taking aoe shapes and force enemies to roll a reflex save vs it until you can grab electricity or fire and wait until you can grab deadly earth.

Hurr durr Deadly Earth. Seriously, if they made a skill that said “you win” you guys would pretend you were geniuses for finding it and look down your noses at anyone not interested in playing that game.

I made her a mudblast whirlwind tripper and even that is stupidly broken.

 

[Desiderius]

just let him play however he wants.
its not like hes asking for help

No, I’ve gotten some. She’s better now than she started out. Good criticism is helpful. Looking forward to the day you provide some.

 

[Desiderius]

So can someone recommend a useful but not broken (no AoE trips pls, not playing solo) build for Kalikke that uses the kinetic blade she already spent a feat on? How long does it last? Is it one burn per swing? Everything about that class is a mystery.

Octavia hit 13 with caster level 9 making Sense Vitals worth it, so now four attacks with 8 sneak dice each and that jav keeps her in sneak range nicely. She’s shredding it.

Vs random mooks you don' need her shreding it. What you are missing is 3x 6d6 maximized plus sneak plus 4d6 from sense vitals that you would get by scorching ray. And all 3 attacks have a really good chance to hit. Not to mention next level she would hit lvl 7 spells and lvl 10 AT and all the goodies from that. Not worth having an average archer instead.

She’s well above average, but the point is she has unlimited shots, and each one gets the sneaks.

Fixed Ray (only the first Ray gets the sneaks, as it was supposed to be - the whole point of what I’m trying to do is break out of the cookie-cutter built around that bug) doesn’t even do that. Maxed Ray is 72 damage + your 9d6 sneak. I’m getting mid to high 40s for each shot, 3 at max BAB (jav has speed) with to hit usually running mid to high 20s, up to low 30s if I have the Freebooter along. With debilitating, shaken, and Archon’s on mobs have -8 plus random other debuffs. I work hard to keep those on but sometimes they resist or she misses the first shot, but not often on non-bosses.

She’s still got the big guns for the baddies in the slots you have to use for the maxxed rays. Tenth level caster now so I’ll have the big sixth level spells soon too.

Just cleared Armag with no rest. That’s the way I’ve played since Dave’s Easter Egg dungeon in Death Knights of Krynn. Old habits are hard to break.

 

[Desiderius]

Or, you know, with haste and simple electric blast she'd attack 3x per round (for half damage, although maybe you can empower?), targeting touch AC.

As Efe would say, what a waste. She’s pretty tanky with the water stuff, high dex, and Crane. She’s stuck with phys, might as well make the best of it. Bludgeoning does have its uses. She’s definitely hasty though - that’s one way to get her overflow going.

Oddly similar to Octavia. You even have to go through hoops to override the piddly auto-attack. Main difference is you’re not stuck with that no-BAB rogue level.

Can’t believe Haplo if all people doesn’t want to max damage.

Melee is not using the best of it. Her bab is not good and she cannot use enchanted blades to buff it. Also it is not considered magical so many enemies will reduce its damage.

Using the best of it is taking aoe shapes and force enemies to roll a reflex save vs it until you can grab electricity or fire and wait until you can grab deadly earth.

Her BAB is 3/4 with high DEX, plus she can prep with a magnetically fused electric blast if you (and everyone else) need the help. Agree on missing the slot though, that’s why I hate unarmed monk. She’s getting good now from Pal aura. DR would have to be pretty hefty to make a dent in this hunk of damage she does when she connects.

 

[deuxhero]

Is there a time limit on the Forefather quest? The Sweet Teeth haven't finished polishing the bones yet and I know doing all of those tasks is required for the good ending.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Is there a time limit on the Forefather quest? The Sweet Teeth haven't finished polishing the bones yet and I know doing all of those tasks is required for the good ending.

Don't think so, I remember holding off on doing it to wait for them to finish up

 

[deuxhero]

Decided to hit the Depths while I waited for my minons to find the tomb. Cleared all I could this run and killed the Wicked Chanter. Hit level 14 just before the fight and it would have been easy, if not for the fact that her mirror image (or something) bugs out and renders her unhittable, even though she was hit dozens of times. She abuses this glitched immunity to attacks to enter melee and fuck up my characters with an aura that has a will save even my Cleric can't make, and most characters can only do on a 20. Finally killed her by abusing splash damage so I don't have to get remotely in range of her and ranged attackers away from the melee ones, but she still charged my guys at the end and stuck half of them in a trance. Had one character die from the wisdom damage they took snapping out of it after the fight was over (when this should have just KOed them). Second of my three Raise Dead scrolls gone (first was the ruby eye fight).

Found Armag's tomb by accident when exploring the new area. Got a bunch of options to find it, and I just kind stumbled across it. OK?

 

[ArchAngel]

Or, you know, with haste and simple electric blast she'd attack 3x per round (for half damage, although maybe you can empower?), targeting touch AC.

As Efe would say, what a waste. She’s pretty tanky with the water stuff, high dex, and Crane. She’s stuck with phys, might as well make the best of it. Bludgeoning does have its uses. She’s definitely hasty though - that’s one way to get her overflow going.

Oddly similar to Octavia. You even have to go through hoops to override the piddly auto-attack. Main difference is you’re not stuck with that no-BAB rogue level.

Or, you know, with haste and simple electric blast she'd attack 3x per round (for half damage, although maybe you can empower?), targeting touch AC.

As Efe would say, what a waste. She’s pretty tanky with the water stuff, high dex, and Crane. She’s stuck with phys, might as well make the best of it. Bludgeoning does have its uses. She’s definitely hasty though - that’s one way to get her overflow going.

Oddly similar to Octavia. You even have to go through hoops to override the piddly auto-attack. Main difference is you’re not stuck with that no-BAB rogue level.

Can’t believe Haplo if all people doesn’t want to max damage.

Melee is not using the best of it. Her bab is not good and she cannot use enchanted blades to buff it. Also it is not considered magical so many enemies will reduce its damage.

Using the best of it is taking aoe shapes and force enemies to roll a reflex save vs it until you can grab electricity or fire and wait until you can grab deadly earth.

Hurr durr Deadly Earth. Seriously, if they made a skill that said “you win” you guys would pretend you were geniuses for finding it and look down your noses at anyone not interested in playing that game.

I made her a mudblast whirlwind tripper and even that is stupidly broken.

Even without deadly earth you still can do better with aoe blasts (except vs evasion enemies where using straight attack is better).

 

[ArchAngel]

Or, you know, with haste and simple electric blast she'd attack 3x per round (for half damage, although maybe you can empower?), targeting touch AC.

As Efe would say, what a waste. She’s pretty tanky with the water stuff, high dex, and Crane. She’s stuck with phys, might as well make the best of it. Bludgeoning does have its uses. She’s definitely hasty though - that’s one way to get her overflow going.

Oddly similar to Octavia. You even have to go through hoops to override the piddly auto-attack. Main difference is you’re not stuck with that no-BAB rogue level.

Can’t believe Haplo if all people doesn’t want to max damage.

Melee is not using the best of it. Her bab is not good and she cannot use enchanted blades to buff it. Also it is not considered magical so many enemies will reduce its damage.

Using the best of it is taking aoe shapes and force enemies to roll a reflex save vs it until you can grab electricity or fire and wait until you can grab deadly earth.

Her BAB is 3/4 with high DEX, plus she can prep with a magnetically fused electric blast if you (and everyone else) need the help. Agree on missing the slot though, that’s why I hate unarmed monk. She’s getting good now from Pal aura. DR would have to be pretty hefty to make a dent in this hunk of damage she does when she connects.

She can get to high dex but it is still not worth it. I remember that my other 3/4 bab characters like harrim would be missing a fair bit in some fights and he used +5 weapon and had same buffs. Martial classes in addition to full bab usually have additional features to buff their attack. By lvl 20 they are usually 10 attack ahead of other classes. That means their 3rd attack is equal in power to cleric's 1st attack.

Melee Kallike is a subpar choice.

 

[Haplo]

Found Armag's tomb by accident when exploring the new area. Got a bunch of options to find it, and I just kind stumbled across it. OK?

Your odds come WAY UP once you START the project. Never managed to find it without the project, but starting it was sufficient.