Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Desiderius]

That's called control, not erase. And sure he can, but a wizard can generally do that much better. Plus erase later on, particularly with an AT PrC.

Much better? I’d need to see the data. Plus dirge sets everything else up for both wizard and bard.

Stinking Cloud, the "Pitt" series, Chains of Light, Icy Prison (later Mass), Sirocco, Tar Pit, Boneshatter. Chains of Light alone solves most "tough" boss encounters in the game (no immunity, no SR check).

Plus Greater Focus: Conjuration is generally a no-brainer for a wizard (yes, even AT) and rather dubious for a Bard. Greater Focus: Evocation is also nice. Bard can consider Enchantment or MAYYYBE late game Evocation, but for me that would feel like a waste. Spamming Greater Shout and Sound Burst vs ghosts or some such might be nice (for 1 round stun each)... but how much can you spam those between rests? An AT can kill them in 2 casts instead...

Also, whom are you gonna give that +4 Conjuration DC Rod of Power Source? To the Bard that has no Conjuration Spells?

Heighten allows lower level CC to achieve better DCs. Makes the likes of Grease and Stinking Cloud useful throughout the game. Not much room (and raising potential) in a 6 spell level class.

Lastly a wizard only really needs Int (and above average Dex & Con). A Bard, if he wants to use a bow or a melee weapon effectively, also needs high Dex (or Str) besides his casting stat.

So typically the wizard will have a pretty huge DC advantage AND will be able to CC all enemy types, not only those vulnerable to Mind Affecting spells.

Don't get me wrong, auto-Shaken with Dirge is awesome and Fascinate is also nice when you get it vs certain enemies, but a Bard can hardly compete with a wizard in universal hard CC.

Thanks for all the details. Sounds like fun.

Amiri the Defender of the True World gets the Conjuration Power Source of course lol (Cave Fangs and Creeping Doom FTW) and my pal MC has Chains (as do Clerics). Vinetrap is arguably better but whatever, single target reflex is covered (so sorry, Armag).

Unique Bard Evo spells act like counterspells giving melee and ranged both time to do work and a big help to hit with iterative attacks.

Mostly joking with Sonic Burst (and rod, I don’t want sonic to fire - actually using it to up the DC on Archon’s Aura another 3), but I have used Burst way more than I thought I would. Clerics have it too of course. Bard Val has +12 to initiative.

I don’t use Stinking Cloud because it’s exploiting the borked implementation of Delay Poison, and I don’t know why wizard would use grease when you’ve already got its big brothers in the pit line.

Heighten seems unimaginative. Higher level spells are in general higher level because they’re better if you can figure out how to use them.

 

[Haplo]

Vinetrap is very good, true, but not better. It's subject to SR, Chains aren't.

Grease is very cool. The Pitts are nice - and better for certain applications, but usually I don't want to wait till the spell expires or enemies get out. It takes too long for most encounters.
With Grease you get Attacks of Opportunity when enemies get up.

Also I use Eldritch Arcana mod and Selective Spell metamagic rods (spell affects enemies only) are so nice for Grease....

 

[Cryomancer]

Except few acid spells like caustic-eruption what spells can ignore SR?

 

[Haplo]

Pretty much all Conjuration spells.

 

[Cryomancer]

Dragon Breath from Dragon Form III can ignore SR too, IMO is a very underrated spell.

• 12d8 damage is more than an cone of cold(10d6 max) and you can do it a lot( the text says that there are a d4 recharge time, but i never needed to wait an recharge)
• Your HP becomes much bigger due +8 CON, is like getting 4*CL temp HP for a pure sorcerer
• Your encumbrance limit raises a lot. Are you carrying too much? Just use this spell
• The immunity. Are you fighting an enemy who deals fire damage? Assume gold dragon form
• Lasts an eternity. 1 min / CL.
• On PnP it gives also 120 feet (poor), on PF:KM only allows you to ignore difficulty terrain and not give this massive speed boost.
• Frightful presence. An permanent AOE mind affecting spell effect. Combined with soul eaters to lower enemy WILL save, this spell can be extremely dangerous.

 

[razvedchiki]

do you guise use the proper flanking mod?

 

[Erebus]

I'm far from done with the basic game, but it's pretty nice so far, so I had a look at the available extensions/DLC.

I find myself a bit puzzled by "The Wildcards". Am I really expected to shell out 8 euros for just one more class, one more race (that should have been in the basic game instead of aasimar) and one more companion ?

 

[Cryomancer]

I find myself a bit puzzled by "The Wildcards". Am I really expected to shell out 8 euros for just one more class, one more race (that should have been in the basic game instead of aasimar) and one more companion ?

Kineticist is not just one new class. Is a completely different class. With unique resources, unique mechanics, etc. About tieflings, they have tons of subraces to choose. IMO worth each cent.

 

[Desiderius]

Vinetrap is very good, true, but not better. It's subject to SR, Chains aren't.

Grease is very cool. The Pitts are nice - and better for certain applications, but usually I don't want to wait till the spell expires or enemies get out. It takes too long for most encounters.
With Grease you get Attacks of Opportunity when enemies get up.

Also I use Eldritch Arcana mod and Selective Spell metamagic rods (spell affects enemies only) are so nice for Grease....

Yeah, that changes things. It’s what makes Jubilost so low maintenance. Pits are round per level vs grease per min for those of us playing unmodded.

Made the mistake of stacking web and grease in tomb and thought Tristan would never escape.

 

[ArchAngel]

Dragon Breath from Dragon Form III can ignore SR too, IMO is a very underrated spell.

• 12d8 damage is more than an cone of cold(10d6 max) and you can do it a lot( the text says that there are a d4 recharge time, but i never needed to wait an recharge)
• Your HP becomes much bigger due +8 CON, is like getting 4*CL temp HP for a pure sorcerer
• Your encumbrance limit raises a lot. Are you carrying too much? Just use this spell
• The immunity. Are you fighting an enemy who deals fire damage? Assume gold dragon form
• Lasts an eternity. 1 min / CL.
• On PnP it gives also 120 feet (poor), on PF:KM only allows you to ignore difficulty terrain and not give this massive speed boost.
• Frightful presence. An permanent AOE mind affecting spell effect. Combined with soul eaters to lower enemy WILL save, this spell can be extremely dangerous.

You also lose access to all your gear so forget about using rods.. and they are source of your biggest power.

 

[Shadenuat]

do you guise use the proper flanking mod?

No because then enemies can never sneak you.

 

[Haplo]

I find myself a bit puzzled by "The Wildcards". Am I really expected to shell out 8 euros for just one more class, one more race (that should have been in the basic game instead of aasimar) and one more companion ?

Kineticist is not just one new class. Is a completely different class. With unique resources, unique mechanics, etc. About tieflings, they have tons of subraces to choose. IMO worth each cent.

The companion is a "dual" companion, as you'll see. Also, as with most companions, there are new companion quests and content. This DLC is the best integrated one with the main game, so for me easily the best out of the three.

 

[Haplo]

Dragon Breath from Dragon Form III can ignore SR too, IMO is a very underrated spell.

• 12d8 damage is more than an cone of cold(10d6 max) and you can do it a lot( the text says that there are a d4 recharge time, but i never needed to wait an recharge)
• Your HP becomes much bigger due +8 CON, is like getting 4*CL temp HP for a pure sorcerer
• Your encumbrance limit raises a lot. Are you carrying too much? Just use this spell
• The immunity. Are you fighting an enemy who deals fire damage? Assume gold dragon form
• Lasts an eternity. 1 min / CL.
• On PnP it gives also 120 feet (poor), on PF:KM only allows you to ignore difficulty terrain and not give this massive speed boost.
• Frightful presence. An permanent AOE mind affecting spell effect. Combined with soul eaters to lower enemy WILL save, this spell can be extremely dangerous.

You also lose access to all your gear so forget about using rods.. and they are source of your biggest power.

Yep. Also Reflex? What's the DC on that? I guess it won't benefit from School Foci or Item boosts. Does it benefit from Elemental Focus at least? I fear the DC might be kinda low.

As for Frightful Presence - you can simply use Frightful Aspect spell.

 

[Jarpie]

Plus the duo-companion you'll get is IMO one of the better (and more interesting) ones from the companions, I also noticed that Kanerah has exclusive choice when she's working as the treasurer.

 

[razvedchiki]

No because then enemies can never sneak you.

Yes but you also wont get the ranged sneak attack from bows and arcane tricksters.

There is also the soft cover mechanic from the tabletop mod that further nerfs ranged combat,but i assume this also hasnt been finetuned to be usable by the ai.

 

[Haplo]

Tricksters can still sneak attack a lot vs many enemies with Invisibility.

Bow users can take Shatter Defenses.

 

[ArchAngel]

What this game needs is a full conversion TB mod that also uses these other mods like true sneak attack but also improves enemy AI so they know how to use it.

 

[Yosharian]

Dragon Breath from Dragon Form III can ignore SR too, IMO is a very underrated spell.

• 12d8 damage is more than an cone of cold(10d6 max) and you can do it a lot( the text says that there are a d4 recharge time, but i never needed to wait an recharge)
• Your HP becomes much bigger due +8 CON, is like getting 4*CL temp HP for a pure sorcerer
• Your encumbrance limit raises a lot. Are you carrying too much? Just use this spell
• The immunity. Are you fighting an enemy who deals fire damage? Assume gold dragon form
• Lasts an eternity. 1 min / CL.
• On PnP it gives also 120 feet (poor), on PF:KM only allows you to ignore difficulty terrain and not give this massive speed boost.
• Frightful presence. An permanent AOE mind affecting spell effect. Combined with soul eaters to lower enemy WILL save, this spell can be extremely dangerous.

You also lose access to all your gear so forget about using rods.. and they are source of your biggest power.

But does the dragon form Frightful Presence still affect allies? Was a bug that I noticed early on, haven't tested it recently

 

[Cael]

Tricksters can still sneak attack a lot vs many enemies with Invisibility.

Bow users can take Shatter Defenses.

 

[Desiderius]

Is Blakemoor worth saving? He ran off and jumped into one of Octavia’s pits because of course he would. Usually it’s only Harrim.

Was nice having a Pal MC for that fight.

 

[Cryomancer]

Yep. Also Reflex? What's the DC on that? I guess it won't benefit from School Foci or Item boosts. Does it benefit from Elemental Focus at least? I fear the DC might be kinda low.

If i remember correctly(not sure), the save DC of the presence and breath attack is the same of the spell. 10 + 8 + CHA mod for sorc. Is really not reliable against fey on high difficulty.

But does the dragon form Frightful Presence still affect allies? Was a bug that I noticed early on, haven't tested it recently

At least on my run, my aura was not affecting my allies. Don't know if is because their are of the same lv, if they always succeed on the save of if the bug got fixed

 

[Efe]

how many times did sirotek end up invincible?

 

[Shadenuat]

Tricksters can still sneak attack a lot vs many enemies with Invisibility.

Impromptu allows sneaking anything, you can melt any barbarian in the face and I think it is bugged since I managed to SA ghosts but I'm not sure how it works.

also fuck fey

Also does anyone feel that FuckOffBaneAll elven sword is the only proper weapon to build Jaethal around? You can rush it on level 12 after Varnhold. I now use Holy Scimitar +4 and as a spare carry Ghostouch Elven blade +4, and I use imo best midgame shield on her still you get very early: Buclker +4 +3 against Melee (total +4 shield +3 Dodge bonus in melee), and I built her as STR character, but the more I think about it, Elven Curve blades, Unarmed, Crane Style, Crane Wing & Shield spell and Mithral armor would be same AC even slightly better by 1 point, but a lot more damaging.

I think that blade was made for her. Saint/Rogue/DD/something something. 1 level rogue asap, then splash somewhere else and be sure to get immunity to flanking and -2/-2 AC to enemies. Max stealth, +10 stealth cloak, combat invis.

By the way my level 13 Reg recently did about 500 damage with unlimited finishing cleave. it's like a chain explosion where you hit at full bab and when something dies it chains into finishing cleaves. what a trap feat!

Also you can now properly progress with heavy armor > mithral +1 > mithral +2 (rogue dungon) > Battle Master +4 (goblin after varnhold) > Onslaught. And Reg and Jaethal both not bad users of those. Reg is p tanky in those.

Aside from that itemization is still bananas where you go 0-100 in single few days sometimes. Skellington merchant feels like a crutch, artisans are still super uneven, and not enough +3 weapons in game. Some good ones are Cold Iron dwarven axe +3, there are more curved swords everywhere, that +4+6 hammer, etc. Longswords still trash tier except the end

ITS MONSTERS. AND ITEMS.
Can't developers ever figure out that simple d&d concept? you do cool monsters and they drop cool items. jesus. no IE successor still did it right I'd say.
Ps. Medusae now do aoe 30 dc petrify gaze.

 

[Haplo]

Yeah, Impromptu is awesome. Only 4 times per day though.
And you can sneak attack (and crit) ghosts - not only with impromptu spells, but also with ghost touch weapons.

 

[Shadenuat]

but they flat out state they're fucking immune to precision damage
and crits

basically at this point I am 100% sure that not being AT makes no sense.

Only 4 times per day though.

so 4 encounters of whatever losing 60+% of their hp on Unfair for you to finish them in a hit.
good enough.

and bosses just don't stand a chance whatsoever regardless of type/resists/immunities - even DLC ones
maybe Spawn since it has 3k hp I heard

Also it really feels good for Necromancy since boneshatter and finger of death don't even need to hit. excellent fey pointers.