Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Desiderius]

No aliens, there’s just more ways to buff damage dealing than spell intensity (likelihood to beat a save). So you can abandon single target spells for most encounters (dedicated casters with feat and equipment support on a boss fight excepted), or you can stay at a difficulty with reasonable DCs by reducing the damage. Less toons will do that.

 

[Desiderius]

I even played goddamn flamewarden ranger.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

I've been able play this game more lately. I am very much appreciating it. The areas feel well designed and really reward exploration. I had doubts about playing a squishy AT in my first run, but am feeling very vindicated by how much use I am getting out of skills. I am still early in, but so far I am very much getting the updated Baldur's Gate experience that I have been aching for all these years.

 

[Shadenuat]

I even played goddamn flamewarden ranger.

View attachment 11304View attachment 11305 View attachment 11306View attachment 11309 View attachment 11310

pffft saint monk
u can put shit on saint monk it will still be good
I played level 20 flamewarden. you will never even see his ability to rise from the dead.

 

[Desiderius]

I even played goddamn flamewarden ranger.

View attachment 11304View attachment 11305 View attachment 11306View attachment 11309 View attachment 11310

pffft saint monk
u can put shit on saint monk it will still be good
I played level 20 flamewarden. you will never even see his ability to raise from the dead.

Well yeah, that’s the joke. You do get full BAB, Longstrider, +5 Barkskins, the world’s worst ever lead blades (you’d play regular two-hander most of the game so it would be good there), quarry, and the full panoply of intimidation feats without having to take power attack. Extra 4d10 fire per crit isn’t awful. Ability is pretty short though.

 

[Shadenuat]

pretty short its fucking 1 minute but takes paladins animation to activate
retardo designed this

 

[Desiderius]

Forgot to use Nobility double prayer. Should be +2 to hit and +2 AC

Should also be +4 AC from Shield Vestment and -7 to hit from Shield Mastery. I think. It's double counting the shield bonus and thinking that heavy penalty is properly implemented.

And Archangel is right about high level spells. If this were an actual playthrough, Wis would be 2 higher (pie gave it +4 here, base would be six higher to get spells) and dex six lower, but you can't use equipment to level when respeccing. 24 WIS is only enough for your ninth level domain spell and no other casts.

Looks like extra attack from Divine Power doesn't stack with haste.

 

[Desiderius]

So Twin Crystals, the two-bladed Force sword double light saber thingie.

Agile but not finessable. Are you just supposed to suck up the to-hit? Can’t even get slashing grace which you wouldn’t really want since the blade is agile anyway since one-handed blade is pre-req.

Slayer would be so sweet with this bad boy.

 

[Zumbabul]

I'm late to the party, but I did it. I finished this game. It is amazing. While playing, did not encounter any bugs.

I'm new to pathfinder, never played it. So I needed to think, when I was creating a character (which is a sign of a good game). I needed to think to understand what each spell do. Basically, I had a feeling that I played Baldurs Gate for the first time.

I enjoyed the first two chapters a lot. They were designed very thoughtfully. Last chapters were not so enjoyable, but still they were ok.

I think Owlcats brought something new to the genre. I really hope that Kingmaker sold well, and they have money for the next game, because I want more!!!!

Also while playing, I had a feeling that this game was intended for party of 4 characters. It felt like 6 characters is too much. Also, I had impression that the rules of the game are balanced around ironman. So, next time I will try to ironman it with 4 characters. And next time will happen tomorrow.

 

[Erebus]

Still far from done with the game (I've just dealt with the flower thing). I'm really enjoying it, but I wish the developers had taken the time to explain the mechanics more extensively. Plenty of things are left unexplained, which is kind of problematic because the Pathfinder system is not the simplest system ever designed.

Let's take the feats. Most of them require you to have certain scores and/or other feats. But the details are not explained in the game. There should be a list of all the feats, that mentions the requirements needed to get them, but there isn't.

And what about conditions ? There are plenty of spells or abilities that can inflict or cure special conditions, but the conditions themselves are not explained. Hey, Ray of Sickening makes an enemy Sickened if he fails his save ! Oh, that's cool, what the fuck does Sickened do !

And plenty of other things are like that. Oh, as a druid, you can turn into a wolf, wow, cool, but I have no idea how turning into a wolf affects my ability scores and what attacks it grants me so why won't you fucking tell me !


I'm not claiming that the PoE games are better, but at least they told you in details how their mechanics work.

 

[Sergiu64]

Let's take the feats. Most of them require you to have certain scores and/or other feats. But the details are not explained in the game. There should be a list of all the feats, that mentions the requirements needed to get them, but there isn't.

You can see feats you don't qualify for yet with a checkbox. Then hover over the feat - shows requirements then.

 

[Desiderius]

Let's take the feats. Most of them require you to have certain scores and/or other feats. But the details are not explained in the game. There should be a list of all the feats, that mentions the requirements needed to get them, but there isn't.

You can see feats you don't qualify for yet with a checkbox. Then hover over the feat - shows requirements then.

Combat log reveals a lot of things you can’t see elsewhere. Once you get into the game there’s a joy of discovery in figuring things out but it can be overwhelming at first.

If you search Pathfinder x (like sickened) in a search engine the d20 site will come up and kingmaker is generally faithful to those rules.

 

[ArchAngel]

Let's take the feats. Most of them require you to have certain scores and/or other feats. But the details are not explained in the game. There should be a list of all the feats, that mentions the requirements needed to get them, but there isn't.

You can see feats you don't qualify for yet with a checkbox. Then hover over the feat - shows requirements then.

Combat log reveals a lot of things you can’t see elsewhere. Once you get into the game there’s a joy of discovery in figuring things out but it can be overwhelming at first.

If you search Pathfinder x (like sickened) in a search engine the d20 site will come up and kingmaker is generally faithful to those rules.

Still the game does not really explain this ingame. Most players will not be googling this stuff and should not be asked to.

 

[Shadenuat]

stop touching yourself

necromancyisweak

WE BE CURSED QWENS!

 

[Desiderius]

pretty short its fucking 1 minute but takes paladins animation to activate
retardo designed this

Eight uses at one minute each doesn’t seem like much but it’s like 80 rounds of rage (no UI issues but annoying fatigue instead). That’s why I hate non-lingering round abilities.

 

[Desiderius]

So I am going to try my 4 player run through main campaign on Challenging with TB mod (I will up the difficulty to Hard if I see the need). I rather use less characters than up the difficulty because this will feel more like PnP and numbers work better (mostly save DCs) when all enemies don't have crazy stats.

Now I have been thinking about these 4 characters. I want to cover all position but want to try something a little different and without abusing all the strongest stuff.
So I was thinking this party:
1. Invulnerable Rager Barbarian - two handed weapon specialist with heavy armor and lots of DR.
2. Hospitaler Paladin - to sword and board and help with healing and support.
3. Scroll Savant Wizard - to do the arcane stuff and use cleric scrolls to assist the Paladin
4. Ranger (Freebooter)/Rogue - archer and skill monkey and would help out with freebooter bonuses ; alternative could be bard Thundercaller, not as useful as rogue for rogue stuff but could be useful enough and those Sound Blasts are useful through most of the game.

What do you think? I am not looking for best mix maxed combination, just something that can preform all tasks of a standard Fighter/Cleric/WIzard/Rogue party without being just those 4 standard boring characters

Sounds perfect difficulty wise. Can’t wait to try it.

Hospitaler is a great healer and immunities are very nice but delayed spell casting means she doesn’t get the cleric stuff you need done. More a fifth or sixth than core performer. Nobility/Animal domain Ecclesitheurge (Boon gives you one spare level to splash, maybe trad monk for Crane, monk weapons, and robes) would do the trick.

You’ll be frustrated with ranged Freebooter. Ranged wants full attacks. Try an enlarged, leaded, reach cleaver vital striker charger (all standard actions) and you’ll be happier. Ranger lets you take Cleaving Finish at six, and Dreadful Carnage at ten without any other intimidate feats which you don’t need. Straight Ranger means good enough Barkskinner. You even get Stone Call/Mass Feather by ten.

That would free up a slot for a Thug4/Bardx for ultimate skill monkey/support.

For Hospitaler I just need him to provide battlefield healing and tank. Scroll Savant WIzard will provide high level cleric support with available scrolls gathered from different mechants.
If there is a different character that can both tank excelent and provide party wide healing I can use that one but pure Cleric is not such character.

Another option could be to ditch Barbarian for Dps, make another pure tank and melee rogue for dps and get Ecclesitheurge as you proposed but Fire one for DPS. THan I would have a lightly armored cleric that can also do dps and wizard that can also heal and support in the back. I could even turn this barbarian into a tank by giving him a shield and getting tanking related rage powers.
THis party would depend more on summons as melee rogue is not a good secondary tank. In my original idea for this party, barbarian would be a secondary tank with his high DR and bonuses to Will from rage.

Freebooter main, lvl 11:

Uses bane weapons where appropriate for big damage spikes but default Glaive does fine too. Reach is nice with Great Cleave.

Jub doing work here with tanglefoot bomb. Octavia with reach Frigid Touch for no save stagger.

 

[purpleblob]

Ok, off topic but I must ask Desiderius - where did you get that portrait for your MC?

 

[Desiderius]

Ok, off topic but I must ask Desiderius - where did you get that portrait for your MC?

The big portrait pack mod. You’ve got to go through it and pick out the decent 20-30 or it will do funky things to your game. She’s especially beautiful holding her big two-hander in the medium and large portrait.



Lvl 11 Octavia bringing the steady pain (no sense vitals yet):

 

[entr0py]

You guys posting these 150-300dmg screenshots, which are nice, but what are you actually trying to show? Haplo pretty much showed everyone how a buffed Sword Saint can easily outdamage everyone, my designated tank SS (Monk1/Pal2/SSx) have his saves at +30, AC 70+, and a few days ago killed Ithuliak during the first round at lvl 15 (didn't even have greater vital strike at that point!) And can pull these things off basically anytime, all the while tanking both magic and physical.

 

[Cryomancer]

Haplo pretty much showed everyone how a buffed Sword Saint can easily outdamage everyone

Kineticist can outdps and sword saint IMO.

 

[entr0py]

However what I found super weird, I just got to the Rushlight tournament and in one single CYOA event got 136K exp?! That is nuuuuts!


https://imgur.com/a/FDRVB7C#AGGmCad

Spoiler

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[Desiderius]

You guys posting these 150-300dmg screenshots, which are nice, but what are you actually trying to show? Haplo pretty much showed everyone how a buffed Sword Saint can easily outdamage everyone, my designated tank SS (Monk1/Pal2/SSx) have his saves at +30, AC 70+, and a few days ago killed Ithuliak during the first round at lvl 15 (didn't even have greater vital strike at that point!) And can pull these things off basically anytime, all the while tanking both magic and physical.

I was showing that a freebooter could still be a good damage dealer. That toon is using move actions to help the team and standard actions to do decent damage on her own. Pic from lvl 11. Vital Strike dice aren’t supposed to multiply with crits so not sure how legit it is.

The Crusader/Flamewarden pics were referring to a conversation a few days ago where people were saying Crusader shield-basher was subpar. The Flamewarden build is mostly a joke because the class doesn’t really do anything. Crusader at least lets you make a good basher with fast spell progression.

Yeah, there are builds that can more or less solo the game (high level kineticist/arcane too), these are builds that can be solid contributors to an unfair team without being broken.

 

[entr0py]

You guys posting these 150-300dmg screenshots, which are nice, but what are you actually trying to show? Haplo pretty much showed everyone how a buffed Sword Saint can easily outdamage everyone, my designated tank SS (Monk1/Pal2/SSx) have his saves at +30, AC 70+, and a few days ago killed Ithuliak during the first round at lvl 15 (didn't even have greater vital strike at that point!) And can pull these things off basically anytime, all the while tanking both magic and physical.

I was showing that a freebooter could still be a good damage dealer. That toon is using move actions to help the team and standard to do decent damage on her own. Pic from lvl 11.

The Crusader/Flamewarden pics were referring to a conversation a few days ago where people were saying Crusader shield-basher was subpar. The Flamewarden build is mostly a joke because the class doesn’t really do anything. Crusader at least lets you make a good basher with fast spell progression.

Yeah, I followed the discussion and your build seems to working fine for you even though it is not my cup of tea, I personally would feel somewhat underwhelming to give the best 1-handed weapon to divine caster with lower BAB but I'm happy you enjoy it mate
(btw how do you guys post screenshots it doesnt seem to work for me, either by embedding or copying....)

 

[entr0py]

Haplo pretty much showed everyone how a buffed Sword Saint can easily outdamage everyone

Kineticist can outdps and sword saint IMO.

Yep, probably Kineticist if enemies are in a group, would still say SS are better against single strong baddies.

 

[Cryomancer]

Yep, probably Kineticist if enemies are in a group, would still say SS are better against single strong baddies.

Kineticist doesn't need to care that much about gear. If spells like disjunction was in the game, able to suppress the gear of the SS, and enemies used this spell with an high frequency, it could make SS much more weaker. IMO more enemies should use dispelling and disjunction magic. But if fly made you immune to ground spells, deadly ground will not be that insanely amazing...

But in therms of damage per hit(ignoring the time required to deal the damage), the strongest spell in the game is icy prison. Caster level damage / round lasting caster level minutes with an high STR check to break means that an lv 20 sorc can throw it, and wait until the 2400 damage will be dealt( will just take 20 minutes = 20 * 6 * 20 / damage per round * rounds in a minute * duration), my strategy on high floors in the endless dungeon was to throw icy prison, mass and then run to the other side of the map. Some times din't worked, but when worked, was "izi"