Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Lambach]

Struggling to find immunity gears like immunity to death magic/ mind spells ECT.

This is Pathfinder, flat-out immunities don't exist. If the Cleric's Aura spells really do work the way Daidre describes, they're bugged/not implemented correctly (I'm only using Aura of Law to counter Jabberwocks and the Knurly Witch, haven't tested the others).

 

[Haplo]

If I am using Closer to Tabletop mod, how will ranged Sneak Attack and Arcane Trickster Sneak Attack spell works?

Sorry I am not familiar with the pnp system

With that mod you need to really flank enemies to get flank bonus. That means have one of your troops on opposite sides of your target. Your ranged sneak attacker will still be able to get sneak attack in that case.
Or you can start dangerous combat with Octavia in stealth so you get first attack as sneak no matter the flank and then cast improved invisibility to get sneaks for rest of combat (and use quicken rods later when you have those).

You can also use Impromptu Sneak Attack - up to 4 times per rest. Vs most enemies also Invisible Thief will work - similar effect as Greater Invisibility, but you can enable it as a free action and use for any number of rounds you need it (as long as you have charges left).
Lastly, you could also pick Shatter Defenses for Ranged Touch Attack spells - provided that your party supports putting enemies into Shaken state (Bard with Dirge of Doom in range, Dazzling Display/Dreadful Carnage on a character with strong Intimidation, Fearful Aspect caster in range, Dragonform caster in range).

 

[Pink Eye]

Is there no blanket buff spells I should be doing for mind immunity with a high level wiz/cleric?

Cleric's Holy/Unholy/Law/Chaos Aura on lvl 8 gives blanket immunity to all mind effects/spells no matter what alignment enemy actually has.

Almost everything else with a rare exception is flat + to saves vs Death/Mind effects, like Hospitaler personal anti-death aura (but it is just +to save vs Death for other party member).
There is no items with complete immunity also.

Protection from Evil/Good/Law/Chaos does practically the same thing at level 1...

That's right. They do give you a bonus saving throw against enemies of the different alignment.

Situational bonuses like that are a waste of time. You might as well cast a level 0 orison called Resistance, which gives +1 saves vs everything.

It's a +2 resistance bonus on saves.
Source: https://pathfinderkingmaker.gamepedia.com/Protection_from_Alignment

I'd rather have a +2 against an enemy, then a +1.

 

[Cael]

Is there no blanket buff spells I should be doing for mind immunity with a high level wiz/cleric?

Cleric's Holy/Unholy/Law/Chaos Aura on lvl 8 gives blanket immunity to all mind effects/spells no matter what alignment enemy actually has.

Almost everything else with a rare exception is flat + to saves vs Death/Mind effects, like Hospitaler personal anti-death aura (but it is just +to save vs Death for other party member).
There is no items with complete immunity also.

Protection from Evil/Good/Law/Chaos does practically the same thing at level 1...

That's right. They do give you a bonus saving throw against enemies of the different alignment.

Situational bonuses like that are a waste of time. You might as well cast a level 0 orison called Resistance, which gives +1 saves vs everything.

It's a +2 resistance bonus on saves.
Source: https://pathfinderkingmaker.gamepedia.com/Protection_from_Alignment

I'd rather have a +2 against an enemy, then a +1.

I prefer +1 vs all than +2 vs specific, especially since alignment is something that should never be told, so you are in for a crapshoot.

 

[ArchAngel]

Is there no blanket buff spells I should be doing for mind immunity with a high level wiz/cleric?

Cleric's Holy/Unholy/Law/Chaos Aura on lvl 8 gives blanket immunity to all mind effects/spells no matter what alignment enemy actually has.

Almost everything else with a rare exception is flat + to saves vs Death/Mind effects, like Hospitaler personal anti-death aura (but it is just +to save vs Death for other party member).
There is no items with complete immunity also.

Protection from Evil/Good/Law/Chaos does practically the same thing at level 1...

That's right. They do give you a bonus saving throw against enemies of the different alignment.

Situational bonuses like that are a waste of time. You might as well cast a level 0 orison called Resistance, which gives +1 saves vs everything.

It's a +2 resistance bonus on saves.
Source: https://pathfinderkingmaker.gamepedia.com/Protection_from_Alignment

I'd rather have a +2 against an enemy, then a +1.

It is a resistance bonus to saves that does not stack with Resistance items. Also a reason why Mind Blank sucks because it is a resistance bonus and does not stack.

 

[Haplo]

Well, except when you rely on a +4 cloak (like those from Pitax Tournament), I guess. Having +4 MORE is still not bad, particularly when you meet enemies which spam those tests. Jabberwocks are pretty bad with their Burble confusion effect.

Even when you have the +5 ring, it's still +3 more. Only when you wear a+6 Resistance Cloak, Mind Blank becomes quite dubious.

 

[Pink Eye]

Is there no blanket buff spells I should be doing for mind immunity with a high level wiz/cleric?

Cleric's Holy/Unholy/Law/Chaos Aura on lvl 8 gives blanket immunity to all mind effects/spells no matter what alignment enemy actually has.

Almost everything else with a rare exception is flat + to saves vs Death/Mind effects, like Hospitaler personal anti-death aura (but it is just +to save vs Death for other party member).
There is no items with complete immunity also.

Protection from Evil/Good/Law/Chaos does practically the same thing at level 1...

That's right. They do give you a bonus saving throw against enemies of the different alignment.

Situational bonuses like that are a waste of time. You might as well cast a level 0 orison called Resistance, which gives +1 saves vs everything.

It's a +2 resistance bonus on saves.
Source: https://pathfinderkingmaker.gamepedia.com/Protection_from_Alignment

I'd rather have a +2 against an enemy, then a +1.

It is a resistance bonus to saves that does not stack with Resistance items. Also a reason why Mind Blank sucks because it is a resistance bonus and does not stack.

Oooh. I did not know this. Lol, even after a thousand hours I still learn something new.

 

[Pink Eye]

Well, except when you rely on a +4 cloak (like those from Pitax Tournament), I guess. Having +4 MORE is still not bad, particularly when you meet enemies which spam those tests. Jabberwocks are pretty bad with their Burble confusion effect.

Even when you have the +5 ring, it's still +3 more. Only when you wear a+6 Resistance Cloak, Mind Blank becomes quite dubious.

I see.

 

[ArchAngel]

Well, except when you rely on a +4 cloak (like those from Pitax Tournament), I guess. Having +4 MORE is still not bad, particularly when you meet enemies which spam those tests. Jabberwocks are pretty bad with their Burble confusion effect.

Even when you have the +5 ring, it's still +3 more. Only when you wear a+6 Resistance Cloak, Mind Blank becomes quite dubious.

Yes it does provide some more bonuses but not what it was in the past. In 3.5 it gave complete immunity to many things, including scrying. Now it gives a "minor" bonus to saves. At least the bonus should be something that can stack with resistance items. +8 would still not be immunity but it would be a step in right direction. Bad Will save characters will not feel this +3 above the +5 cloak but they would feel +8 in addition to +5

 

[Daidre]

Even the best saves leave 5% failure chance and with P:K implementation of mind-effect's auras that make you roll every round and without 24h immunity that often present in the rules for such abilities, chance to get CCed adds up really fast.

So I usually do not bother with extra feats/spells for will saves and beside mandatory buffs (Heroism, etc) and +4-6 all saves items on everyone. I just solve it with Holy/Law Aura, like Forefather or Jabberwocks fights.

 

[Daidre]

It is kinda sad that Hospitaler does not share his Death immunity. It would be at least worth giving up party-wide Smite Evil for.

+4 vs Death is close to useless for a characters who need it the most - like pure mages with a bad Fort saves.

 

[Desiderius]

Well, except when you rely on a +4 cloak (like those from Pitax Tournament), I guess. Having +4 MORE is still not bad, particularly when you meet enemies which spam those tests. Jabberwocks are pretty bad with their Burble confusion effect.

Even when you have the +5 ring, it's still +3 more. Only when you wear a+6 Resistance Cloak, Mind Blank becomes quite dubious.

Yes it does provide some more bonuses but not what it was in the past. In 3.5 it gave complete immunity to many things, including scrying. Now it gives a "minor" bonus to saves. At least the bonus should be something that can stack with resistance items. +8 would still not be immunity but it would be a step in right direction. Bad Will save characters will not feel this +3 above the +5 cloak but they would feel +8 in addition to +5

Don’t build bad Will characters. There are more than enough resources at your disposal that you shouldn’t need a get out of jail free card.

 

[Yosharian]

If I am using Closer to Tabletop mod, how will ranged Sneak Attack and Arcane Trickster Sneak Attack spell works?

Sorry I am not familiar with the pnp system

With that mod you need to really flank enemies to get flank bonus. That means have one of your troops on opposite sides of your target. Your ranged sneak attacker will still be able to get sneak attack in that case.
Or you can start dangerous combat with Octavia in stealth so you get first attack as sneak no matter the flank and then cast improved invisibility to get sneaks for rest of combat (and use quicken rods later when you have those).

You can also use Impromptu Sneak Attack - up to 4 times per rest. Vs most enemies also Invisible Thief will work - similar effect as Greater Invisibility, but you can enable it as a free action and use for any number of rounds you need it (as long as you have charges left).
Lastly, you could also pick Shatter Defenses for Ranged Touch Attack spells - provided that your party supports putting enemies into Shaken state (Bard with Dirge of Doom in range, Dazzling Display/Dreadful Carnage on a character with strong Intimidation, Fearful Aspect caster in range, Dragonform caster in range).

Technically, the skill is called 'Persuasion' in Kingmaker

 

[Desiderius]

Mark of justice is pure cheese. One can not replace it with personal death effect immunity even if it were shareable temporarily. Bypassing *all* DR and the ridiculous bonuses to AC and AB from MoJ are too sweet. Just kill them before they kill you.

Yes, that’s what your Hospitaler does. If the rest of your party also needs that much help you’re doing it wrong.

 

[Desiderius]

It is kinda sad that Hospitaler does not share his Death immunity. It would be at least worth giving up party-wide Smite Evil for.

+4 vs Death is close to useless for a characters who need it the most - like pure mages with a bad Fort saves.

They’re not in range of the Aura anyway. Those who get it could use the top off. The skill works perfectly in greatly reducing Death Ward reliance in those encounters where it’s relevant, freeing up slots for the things your toons do best and/or Crusader’s Edge.

 

[Desiderius]

Even the best saves leave 5% failure chance and with P:K implementation of mind-effect's auras that make you roll every round and without 24h immunity that often present in the rules for such abilities, chance to get CCed adds up really fast.

So I usually do not bother with extra feats/spells for will saves and beside mandatory buffs (Heroism, etc) and +4-6 all saves items on everyone. I just solve it with Holy/Law Aura, like Forefather or Jabberwocks fights.

Makes sense. No Image for saves. I don’t use feats like Iron Will but Shake it Off +4 all, Armed Bravery, Bestow Grace etc are a different story. If you get it down to 5-10% you can clean up the stragglers.

There’s also the Fear re-roll buff.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

My cool technique was transforming into a dragon with Octavia. I know, I'm just that Dragon Age 2 meme: I WANT TO BE A DRAGUN!!1

 

[Haplo]

If I am using Closer to Tabletop mod, how will ranged Sneak Attack and Arcane Trickster Sneak Attack spell works?

Sorry I am not familiar with the pnp system

With that mod you need to really flank enemies to get flank bonus. That means have one of your troops on opposite sides of your target. Your ranged sneak attacker will still be able to get sneak attack in that case.
Or you can start dangerous combat with Octavia in stealth so you get first attack as sneak no matter the flank and then cast improved invisibility to get sneaks for rest of combat (and use quicken rods later when you have those).

You can also use Impromptu Sneak Attack - up to 4 times per rest. Vs most enemies also Invisible Thief will work - similar effect as Greater Invisibility, but you can enable it as a free action and use for any number of rounds you need it (as long as you have charges left).
Lastly, you could also pick Shatter Defenses for Ranged Touch Attack spells - provided that your party supports putting enemies into Shaken state (Bard with Dirge of Doom in range, Dazzling Display/Dreadful Carnage on a character with strong Intimidation, Fearful Aspect caster in range, Dragonform caster in range).

Technically, the skill is called 'Persuasion' in Kingmaker

the skill might be Persuasion, but there is a separate statistic called Intimidate (used both in conversations and combat abilities). Some feats affect Intimidation while having no effect on general Persuasion skill checks (Intimidating Prowess!). Some items even provide a bonus to Intimidation while penalizing general Persuasion...

 

[Delterius]

If I am using Closer to Tabletop mod, how will ranged Sneak Attack and Arcane Trickster Sneak Attack spell works?

Sorry I am not familiar with the pnp system

All you can do is attack before combat begins (the enemy is flatfooted) and attack before they get their first round (you won initiative against them, so they are flatfooted still). You can also use impromptu sneak attacks and attack from invisibility. I assume blinded enemies also suffer from sneak attacks, so Glitterdust is still game.

Basically you just won't get flanking bonuses since you're attacking from range.

 

[Desiderius]

Mark of Justice is like that 20 AC difference between 70AC and 90AC.

 

[Yosharian]

the skill might be Persuasion, but there is a separate statistic called Intimidate (used both in conversations and combat abilities). Some feats affect Intimidation while having no effect on general Persuasion skill checks (Intimidating Prowess!). Some items even provide a bonus to Intimidation while penalizing general Persuasion...

Ah yes, good point

 

[Daidre]

Mark of Justice is like that 20 AC difference between 70AC and 90AC.

It is also paladin's charisma to attack and paladin's level to damage. It is +11 (up to +20) dmg for each attack (crazy on archers and dual-wielders) when he gets it and along with DR ignoring part it makes maxed out bard song look pathetic against enemies it is applicable on.

 

[Desiderius]

Mark of Justice is like that 20 AC difference between 70AC and 90AC.

It is also paladin's charisma to attack and paladin's level to damage. It is +11 (up to +20) dmg for each attack (crazy on archers and dual-wielders) when he gets it and along with DR ignoring part it makes maxed out bard song look pathetic against enemies it is applicable on.

Exactly my point. You already get all that on your main from Smite Evil. Why do you need it on your whole team? It’s just win more (like that extra 20 AC).

 

[Daidre]

Just an x6 difference in damage output boni from one ability use. Who would want this indeed.

(Realistically, it is closer to x4 for depending on number of physical attackers in the party. Smilodons would love it.)

 

[Desiderius]

Just an x6 difference in damage output boni from one ability use. Who would want this indeed.

(Realistically, it is closer to x4 for depending on number of physical attackers in the party. Smilodons would love it.)

So you can kill mobs ten times over instead of five? You can pretend I don't know how the skill works until you’re blue in the face but all it shows is that you don't have a real counterargument.