Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Pink Eye]

Didn't the last DLC turn out the way it did because most of the time was spent figuring out how to do procedural generation with the engine/assets/whatever?

Yes. They had blog posts about that. I can't believe they spent resources working on that crappy DLC....

What's wrong with the third DLC? I enjoyed that a lot too. In fact, I liked all three...

Playing Depths in the main game is like watching someone slowly starve to death. Wild Hunt near the bottom drop Longbows, not even Masterwork. Xelliren tells you specifically that he’s updated his inventory, then you go to trade and he hasn’t. No Perception checks other than the obligatory one trap and one secret door per level. The big item on level XV? +5 Club.

It’s like a sick joke or it was designed by some dev’s kid. Compare the Boggart Cave itemization/Perception payoffs to Old Sycamore or Lake Silverstep Village. Two different games.

Ya. The DLC sucked ass. I don't know who thought it was great idea to implement this crap into the game. It sucked. As is evident by the fact that the majority of players didn't even bother to play the stand alone version.

 

[Pink Eye]

Yes. They had blog posts about that. I can't believe they spent resources working on that crappy DLC....

A DLC probably nobody wanted. Would've been better if they either expanded Varnhold's Lot or added another unrelated adventure. Or another big dungeon to the base game of course.

Yup.

 

[Lacrymas]

If you want a roguelike, just play a roguelike that was designed from the get-go to be a roguelike, it's not like there aren't quality ones out there that are worth your time. It just baffles me why they thought this would be a good idea. It's not even a good implementation of a roguelike dungeon either way.

 

[deuxhero]

I suspect Depths was cheap to make. The only new art assets are the dragon, the final boss, some inventory icons and some unimpressive overlays to indicate a floor's element. Writing/Programming isn't that complex either. Only surprising thing about the Depths was seeing some enemy dwarf geomancers, since that's the only indication of any of the DLC crossing over with the rest (Honest Guy doesn't even have the diadem for the class).

 

[Pink Eye]

I suspect Depths was cheap to make. The only new art assets are the dragon, the final boss, some inventory icons and some unimpressive overlays to indicate a floor's element. Only surprising thing about the Depths was seeing some enemy dwarf geomancers, since that's the only indication of any of the DLC crossing over with the rest (Honest Guy doesn't even have the diadem for the class).

>I suspect Depths was cheap to make.
So cheap to make, that they had blogs complaining about how difficult it was to create procedural generated content....

 

[deuxhero]

That's the only remotely time consuming thing in the DLC.

 

[Desiderius]

It's pretty cool they are indie now. But I don't know what that means in practical terms. I suppose they are freer from "publisher interference", but I don't sense much of that in PF:K in the first place, soooo. Enlighten me.

It probably means they will have even less money this time around and will depend on KS even more. I expect their next game to be smaller than PKM.

We'll see. When will companies ever learn NOT to given in to filthy casuals.

Casuals pay the bills. This game would be very casual friendly if they’d just get the experience right.

 

[Desiderius]

My understanding is that Depths standalone is a superior experience to the in-game. The in-game starts fine, you can just tell that whoever started it got put on another project or something and the follow-up crew is as clueless as they’ve been on main game functional bugs.

 

[Pink Eye]

It's pretty cool they are indie now. But I don't know what that means in practical terms. I suppose they are freer from "publisher interference", but I don't sense much of that in PF:K in the first place, soooo. Enlighten me.

It probably means they will have even less money this time around and will depend on KS even more. I expect their next game to be smaller than PKM.

We'll see. When will companies ever learn NOT to given in to filthy casuals.

Casuals pay the bills. This game would be very casual friendly if they’d just get the experience right.

Fuck that shit. The whole point of Kickstarter is to give niche RPGs the opportunity to succeed without the devs having to compromise on their vision....

 

[Desiderius]

It's pretty cool they are indie now. But I don't know what that means in practical terms. I suppose they are freer from "publisher interference", but I don't sense much of that in PF:K in the first place, soooo. Enlighten me.

It probably means they will have even less money this time around and will depend on KS even more. I expect their next game to be smaller than PKM.

We'll see. When will companies ever learn NOT to given in to filthy casuals.

Casuals pay the bills. This game would be very casual friendly if they’d just get the experience right.

Fuck that shit. The whole point of Kickstarter is to give niche RPGs the opportunity to succeed without the devs having to compromise on their vision....

If they had the programmers and bugfixing team play the game for twenty or thirty hours they wouldn't have had to compromise anything at all. The vision was superb, for casual and hardcore alike. The execution hasn't always been so, though not for lack of effort.

The "Let the Player Base Find the Bugs" model ends up shooting game companies in the foot since then the people in charge of fixing the bugs don't understand what they're fixing and often get it wrong and/or miss basic stuff that gives them a black eye.

 

[purpleblob]

Dwarner is probably referring to the level 3

Didn't the last DLC turn out the way it did because most of the time was spent figuring out how to do procedural generation with the engine/assets/whatever?

Yes. They had blog posts about that. I can't believe they spent resources working on that crappy DLC....

What's wrong with the third DLC? I enjoyed that a lot too. In fact, I liked all three...

Playing Depths in the main game was a slog.. A real slog to get through. The stand alone DLC was really really boring... I don't want roguelike in my freaking CRPGs.
I wish we had more DLC like Varnholds. Or more companion/classes DLC like Wildcards.

I actually enjoyed DLC#3 as a standalone - it's a good place to try out different builds. And what do you mean its a slog in the main game? It's only 16 floors long - 4 for each mini boss.

 

[Desiderius]

Dwarner is probably referring to the level 3

Didn't the last DLC turn out the way it did because most of the time was spent figuring out how to do procedural generation with the engine/assets/whatever?

Yes. They had blog posts about that. I can't believe they spent resources working on that crappy DLC....

What's wrong with the third DLC? I enjoyed that a lot too. In fact, I liked all three...

Playing Depths in the main game was a slog.. A real slog to get through. The stand alone DLC was really really boring... I don't want roguelike in my freaking CRPGs.
I wish we had more DLC like Varnholds. Or more companion/classes DLC like Wildcards.

I actually enjoyed DLC#3 as a standalone - it's a good place to try out different builds. And what do you mean its a slog in the main game? It's only 16 floors long - 4 for each mini boss.

The items get worse the deeper you go. Lvl 3-6 are the best lvls - it’s where I get my Jav and Gloves.

 

[Delterius]

How does depths even work in the main campaign? Is it in some sort of time bubble?

 

[Pink Eye]

Dwarner is probably referring to the level 3

Didn't the last DLC turn out the way it did because most of the time was spent figuring out how to do procedural generation with the engine/assets/whatever?

Yes. They had blog posts about that. I can't believe they spent resources working on that crappy DLC....

What's wrong with the third DLC? I enjoyed that a lot too. In fact, I liked all three...

Playing Depths in the main game was a slog.. A real slog to get through. The stand alone DLC was really really boring... I don't want roguelike in my freaking CRPGs.
I wish we had more DLC like Varnholds. Or more companion/classes DLC like Wildcards.

I actually enjoyed DLC#3 as a standalone - it's a good place to try out different builds. And what do you mean its a slog in the main game? It's only 16 floors long - 4 for each mini boss.

Yeah. 16 floors of slog... Imagine replaying the game on multiple play throughs, then doing the depths each time. The,"magic", of the depths wears off quite quickly.

 

[deuxhero]

How does depths even work in the main campaign? Is it in some sort of time bubble?

You can only access so many floors at a time and don't get bonus XP for reaching new floors. I only ever bothered with it when I had a chokepoint in kingdom mangement and fully exhausted the bounds of the currently explorable areas.

 

[Desiderius]

How does depths even work in the main campaign? Is it in some sort of time bubble?

You can only do four floors at a time. 5-8 open up after Womb etc...

 

[purpleblob]

I think the best option is clear up the depth once all 16 floors open up.

Dwarner is probably referring to the level 3

Didn't the last DLC turn out the way it did because most of the time was spent figuring out how to do procedural generation with the engine/assets/whatever?

Yes. They had blog posts about that. I can't believe they spent resources working on that crappy DLC....

What's wrong with the third DLC? I enjoyed that a lot too. In fact, I liked all three...

Playing Depths in the main game was a slog.. A real slog to get through. The stand alone DLC was really really boring... I don't want roguelike in my freaking CRPGs.
I wish we had more DLC like Varnholds. Or more companion/classes DLC like Wildcards.

I actually enjoyed DLC#3 as a standalone - it's a good place to try out different builds. And what do you mean its a slog in the main game? It's only 16 floors long - 4 for each mini boss.

Yeah. 16 floors of slog... Imagine replaying the game on multiple play throughs, then doing the depths each time. The,"magic", of the depths wears off quite quickly.

You don't need to replay the DLC again if you don't like it lol.

I'm going back since I missed number of items to achieve the "true" ending

 

[Pink Eye]

I think the best option is clear up the depth once all 16 floors open up.

Dwarner is probably referring to the level 3

Didn't the last DLC turn out the way it did because most of the time was spent figuring out how to do procedural generation with the engine/assets/whatever?

Yes. They had blog posts about that. I can't believe they spent resources working on that crappy DLC....

What's wrong with the third DLC? I enjoyed that a lot too. In fact, I liked all three...

Playing Depths in the main game was a slog.. A real slog to get through. The stand alone DLC was really really boring... I don't want roguelike in my freaking CRPGs.
I wish we had more DLC like Varnholds. Or more companion/classes DLC like Wildcards.

I actually enjoyed DLC#3 as a standalone - it's a good place to try out different builds. And what do you mean its a slog in the main game? It's only 16 floors long - 4 for each mini boss.

Yeah. 16 floors of slog... Imagine replaying the game on multiple play throughs, then doing the depths each time. The,"magic", of the depths wears off quite quickly.

You don't need to replay the DLC again if you don't like it lol.

I'm going back since I missed number of items to achieve the "true" ending

If you want to reach level 20 early, you have to do the depths.

 

[Trashos]

On the writing. I cannot judge the overall narrative yet, but the line-to-line writing is indeed very good. I might even call it top-tier game writing. It fits well with the flow of the game too, which is a concept that most other game writers don't grasp.

The companion concepts are a completely different matter, and I expect that most PKM fans will not be happy to hear my thoughts on them. I will leave those for a later post.

 

[Pink Eye]

On the writing. I cannot judge the overall narrative yet, but the line-to-line writing is indeed very good. I might even call it top-tier game writing. It fits well with the flow of the game too, which is a concept that most other game writers don't grasp.

The companion concepts are a completely different matter, and I expect that most PKM fans will not be happy to hear my thoughts on them. I will leave those for a later post.

>I expect that most PKM fans will not be happy to hear my thoughts on them. I will leave those for a later post.
Go ahead and share your thoughts. Whatever you have to say, has to be far more interesting than what Steam drones will say.

 

[Trashos]

Well, here it is then.

- I can see there is character development to come, but still 2 very important companions (Val and Amiri) start as SJW archetypes. Even if they somehow mature (as I would put it) during the course of the game, it is clear that they will be remembered as the archetypes they represent. These are not interesting archetypes to me, and probably to a lot of other gamers who think like me (mild conservatives, let's say, who wouldn't even be considered conservatives 10 years ago).

- In games like this, it is always very important to get the tanking character right. All DAO players remember Alistair, all PoE players remember Eder. Valerie will also be remembered, but unfortunately she is not up to par. The concept behind her is very niche. And, to me, uninteresting. She is not the kind of woman I would hang out with. As a matter of fact, none of the female companions are the kind of women I would hang out with.

- I am more or less forced to use a party where the strong physical fighters are female (Val, Amiri, Jaethal), and the healers are male (Tristian, Harrim). It is not the kind of party I wanted to adventure with, I wanted it the other way around. Or, at least, mix it up some more. Also, at the beginning of the game I was forced to have an all female party (my character aside) with Val, Amiri and Linzi. Wth?!

- I am not saying that the game companions are attacking my sensibilities, because they are not. But that is a very low bar for this game, which we shouldn't even be considering.

- On the bright side, Jubilost is fun, done well, and probably the most memorable of the lot. The intelligent smartass archetype. I have not met Nok-Nok yet.

All in all, I find the companions disappointing. Even more so as compared to the general level of the writing (concepts included) in the game.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

It's pretty cool they are indie now. But I don't know what that means in practical terms. I suppose they are freer from "publisher interference", but I don't sense much of that in PF:K in the first place, soooo. Enlighten me.

It's most likely a really good thing. My.games is basically a shovelware company that produces a lot of really shit mobile games, they were likely afraid of them hollowing Owlcat out.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Well, here it is then.

- I can see there is character development to come, but still 2 very important companions (Val and Amiri) start as SJW archetypes. Even if they somehow mature (as I would put it) during the course of the game, it is clear that they will be remembered as the archetypes they represent. These are not interesting archetypes to me, and probably to a lot of other gamers who think like me (mild conservatives, let's say, who wouldn't even be considered conservatives 10 years ago).

- In games like this, it is always very important to get the tanking character right. All DAO players remember Alistair, all PoE players remember Eder. Valerie will also be remembered, but unfortunately she is not up to par. The concept behind her is very niche. And, to me, uninteresting. She is not the kind of woman I would hang out with. As a matter of fact, none of the female companions are the kind of women I would hang out with.

- I am more or less forced to use a party where the strong physical fighters are female (Val, Amiri, Jaethal), and the healers are male (Tristian, Harrim). It is not the kind of party I wanted to adventure with, I wanted it the other way around. Or, at least, mix it up some more. Also, at the beginning of the game I was forced to have an all female party (my character aside) with Val, Amiri and Linzi. Wth?!

- I am not saying that the game companions are attacking my sensibilities, because they are not. But that is a very low bar for this game, which we shouldn't even be considering.

- On the bright side, Jubilost is fun, done well, and probably the most memorable of the lot. The intelligent smartass archetype. I have not met Nok-Nok yet.

All in all, I find the companions disappointing. Even more so as compared to the general level of the writing (concepts included) in the game.

Do Amiri's quests, I think you'll like them.
Also, I didn't have an issue with Valerie tbh. Seemed fine to me.

 

[Yosharian]

Well, here it is then.

- I can see there is character development to come, but still 2 very important companions (Val and Amiri) start as SJW archetypes. Even if they somehow mature (as I would put it) during the course of the game, it is clear that they will be remembered as the archetypes they represent. These are not interesting archetypes to me, and probably to a lot of other gamers who think like me (mild conservatives, let's say, who wouldn't even be considered conservatives 10 years ago).

- In games like this, it is always very important to get the tanking character right. All DAO players remember Alistair, all PoE players remember Eder. Valerie will also be remembered, but unfortunately she is not up to par. The concept behind her is very niche. And, to me, uninteresting. She is not the kind of woman I would hang out with. As a matter of fact, none of the female companions are the kind of women I would hang out with.

- I am more or less forced to use a party where the strong physical fighters are female (Val, Amiri, Jaethal), and the healers are male (Tristian, Harrim). It is not the kind of party I wanted to adventure with, I wanted it the other way around. Or, at least, mix it up some more. Also, at the beginning of the game I was forced to have an all female party (my character aside) with Val, Amiri and Linzi. Wth?!

- I am not saying that the game companions are attacking my sensibilities, because they are not. But that is a very low bar for this game, which we shouldn't even be considering.

- On the bright side, Jubilost is fun, done well, and probably the most memorable of the lot. The intelligent smartass archetype. I have not met Nok-Nok yet.

All in all, I find the companions disappointing. Even more so as compared to the general level of the writing (concepts included) in the game.

Yep, the companions are shite, for the most part. Agree with Jubilost being entertaining.

 

[Nerevar]

No no no no it wasn't supposed to be this way! First my bard gets killed now this. I just wanted to help the fairy not get dumped.

Spoiler

Oh well at least Jaethal came back to life maybe my character can just marry her r-right guise?