Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Daidre]

I find some P:K companions like Amiri and Regoctavia are somewhat annoying and their writing apparently lacking among the others, but it is nowhere near the rabid hate I felt every time Xoti and Teheku opened their mouths.
All companion writing in Deadfire being "50 shades of Joss Whedon" and their arcs being one quest long had not helped them either.

Imho, biggest P:K's faults is that best characters are plot gated (Nok + Jubilost) and that game takes its time before shoving into your face that Amiri is a compulsive liar and Val is, let's just say, not a brightest star in the sky.

 

[Desiderius]

Why do you hate Valerie?

Valerie is just a dumb broad who didn't really have any character development. She's not damaged goods anyway so automatically better than Regongar and Octavia.

hello my internal conflict is that I have divine beauty and everyone around me worships me too much because they just happen to be connected to the god of beauty

thats much more of a travesty than two people asking if you want a threesome

It's a her tragic flaw, and a not uncommon one. She's a Shrew in need of Taming and you're just the man to do it.

 

[Desiderius]

- I am more or less forced to use a party where the strong physical fighters are female (Val, Amiri, Jaethal), and the healers are male (Tristian, Harrim). It is not the kind of party I wanted to adventure with, I wanted it the other way around. Or, at least, mix it up some more. Also, at the beginning of the game I was forced to have an all female party (my character aside) with Val, Amiri and Linzi. Wth?!

Don't play Harrim like an idiot for one. He's a buffer, not a healer. Cleric list has very potent buffs on it, especially when this game effectively gives you unlimited time before fights to buff. In-fact, healing HP in-combat at all is a terrible idea, with the only exception being unconsious allies, very low level, and the spell Heal.

This, except his strength is debuffing, he still does the buffs fine too.

 

[Desiderius]

Reg could've been alright if he was not so gay. Jubilost meh, did not cared much for his ark and quests.
And yeah they all start SJW like but quest show how they are fucked up inside.
Valerie conflict is that she always was beautiful and tried to downplay it, but when she lost it due to scar she realized that in fact she enjoys it and starts behaving like an ass. Or something like that.

Getting warmer.

They're all send-ups of woke bullshit. Mary Sue, Magic Negro, Poz shit, Pajama Boy, etc... They're Russkies so they throw in the Novelty-seeking, Good-with-money Jew for good measure.

 

[Nerevar]

No character development? Are you reading impaired?

I was expecting her to become a Paladin at the end or get some kind of cool buff. She just loses her scar and realizes "People treat me like crap when I'm ugly it is better when I am pretty and treat them like crap and I still want to be a heathen lol".

 

[Daidre]

I was expecting her to become a Paladin at the end or get some kind of cool buff. She just loses her scar and realizes "People treat me like crap when I'm ugly it is better when I am pretty and treat them like crap and I still want to be a heathen lol".

She gets inherent +2 Str and +2 Cha/Dex depending on outcome with special feat. That it is pretty high on my personal "cool buff" scale.

 

[Desiderius]

No character development? Are you reading impaired?

I was expecting her to become a Paladin at the end or get some kind of cool buff. She just loses her scar and realizes "People treat me like crap when I'm ugly it is better when I am pretty and treat them like crap and I still want to be a heathen lol".

Yeah, the not-Paladin was an unexpected twist and probably a little too cute. She gets +2 STR/+2 CHR at the end. That along with Oppressor make her a very good Bard. As for character she is significantly humbled, which is something the characters in RL she represents are literally dying for.

 

[Nerevar]

I didn't notice. This playthrough I messed up for certain on two henchmen quests. First Jubilost I missed him completely so not in my party even and second demon daddy came and took my goat away so I screwed up there.

Next playthrough I'll do better! Just a bit to go until I have the final showdown I think....

 

[Desiderius]

Pretty sure the internal conflict isn't that she's beautiful, but that that beauty prevented her from doing whatever it is she wanted to do. I only spoke to her once though, so no idea what comes next.

Beauty only opens doors, it doesn't shut any worth shutting. She only wanted to do it since she was a spoiled brat. That's why her stats are what they are. It works out if you tame her and help her find something productive to do with her life.

 

[Desiderius]

Well, here it is then.

- I can see there is character development to come, but still 2 very important companions (Val and Amiri) start as SJW archetypes. Even if they somehow mature (as I would put it) during the course of the game, it is clear that they will be remembered as the archetypes they represent. These are not interesting archetypes to me, and probably to a lot of other gamers who think like me (mild conservatives, let's say, who wouldn't even be considered conservatives 10 years ago).

- In games like this, it is always very important to get the tanking character right. All DAO players remember Alistair, all PoE players remember Eder. Valerie will also be remembered, but unfortunately she is not up to par. The concept behind her is very niche. And, to me, uninteresting. She is not the kind of woman I would hang out with. As a matter of fact, none of the female companions are the kind of women I would hang out with.

- I am more or less forced to use a party where the strong physical fighters are female (Val, Amiri, Jaethal), and the healers are male (Tristian, Harrim). It is not the kind of party I wanted to adventure with, I wanted it the other way around. Or, at least, mix it up some more. Also, at the beginning of the game I was forced to have an all female party (my character aside) with Val, Amiri and Linzi. Wth?!

- I am not saying that the game companions are attacking my sensibilities, because they are not. But that is a very low bar for this game, which we shouldn't even be considering.

- On the bright side, Jubilost is fun, done well, and probably the most memorable of the lot. The intelligent smartass archetype. I have not met Nok-Nok yet.

All in all, I find the companions disappointing. Even more so as compared to the general level of the writing (concepts included) in the game.

We're liberals. Making women men and men women is illiberal. The end.

The game gets there if you let it. I had your same first impressions. I was wrong.

 

[Trashos]

Lot of and "i don't like character/archetype therefore he is badly written" "arguments" on last pages.

I am not attacking the game, btw. I am liking it, and I can also see the writing talent (I commented on that in a previous post, where I differentiated between general writing and companion writing -imo they are not on the same level).

Here is the thing about archetypes. If writers want to appeal to a lot of people of varying tastes, they have to use the classic archetypes. Classic archetypes done well, fresh takes on classic archetypes, thought provoking takes on classic archetypes, but it should always be about classic archetypes. There is a reason why those archetypes are classic, they mean something to everybody.

When writers diverge from those classic archetypes, they run the risk that their characters may say nothing to a lot of people. This is not my fault, it is the risk the writers took. I couldn't care less about Val or Amiri, for example. They say nothing to me about my life, and I do not find them intellectually engaging or sexy. I am not interested in watching them mature. This could all have been avoided, but it was not up to me.

 

[Trashos]

Desiderius, I think I answered to you in my last paragraph above. Yes, there may be more to it, but I am not interested in it.

 

[Lacrymas]

I'd say PF:K's companions are classic archetypes, at least at first. You might be confusing "classic archetypes" with something else that you want.

 

[Desiderius]

Desiderius, I think I answered to you in my last paragraph above. Yes, there may be more to it, but I am not interested in it.

You may not be interested in the Poz, but the Poz is very interested in you. This game subverts it. You can take refuge in classical archetypes or you can take the fight to the enemy. Given the enemy the latter seems the manlier option.

Of course they're not sexy. That's the whole point of the Poz. Birth rates aren't going to reduce themselves.

 

[panda]

Idk, i hate Linzi's archetype with passion but in this game Linzi herself is made so good that she became one of my favorite chatacters. If this is not sign of good writing then i don't know what is.

 

[Desiderius]

I'd say PF:K's companions are classic archetypes, at least at first. You might be confusing "classic archetypes" with something else that you want.

Gender bending is in fact somewhat classical, but not in a good way.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

I'm not thrilled with the companions yet either, particularly in that I'm playing a morally ambiguous party my first play through. Thus far Amiri is one-dimensional bluster, though its strongly alluded that she's bullshiting, as her dialogues have obvious doubt in them. Valerie thus far is exceptionally ordinary, despite being constantly described as a goddess in all things. She doesn't talk much yet, so that helps overcome the forced mystique, even if it makes her boring. Harrim is like a very boring version of Durance from PoE. I haven't had Regongar very long, but he seems fine thus far. Octavia is an obvious skank, but too soon to say much else. She isn't in my normal line-up. Linzi is this game's Imoen with less charm. She's not in my party. Jaethal seems alright, but I have a feeling like her sardonic demeanor is going to wear thin as the game progresses. Her backstory is outlandish--particularly in how open she is about murdering her relatives to get a hedonistic fix. It's absurd that anyone outside of the most crazed villains would travel with such a person. Hopefully it develops into something better.

 

[ArchAngel]

My Monk run keeps finding irritating shit. Now I found out that your two priests in town (Jhod and that other priest) share same inventory lol. Also whatever items you removed from Jhod in Act 1 are also missing from the new priest that arrives in your town as well as Jhod. Since my monks can only heal using potions and scrolls I was able to buy all Cure Light wound and Cure Moderate Wounds scrolls lol. Now I am up to Cure Serious Wounds, this monk run is getting very expensive.. and this is how I noticed this shitty design. My plan all along was to use both the shopkeepers to buy lots more Cure Light Wounds (also I hoped Jhod inventory would reset after Act 1).

EDIT: On the other hand I found another challenge in my run I didn't expect to find. Now I know I got very limited amount of healing available. At least when I go back to my capital and heal my other companions heal me to 100%. Also there is a nice bug here. If I get attacked while resting on overmap and after battle click on camp to continue resting my party gets magically healed by other companions that are in the capital :D

 

[Lacrymas]

Gender bending is in fact somewhat classical, but not in a good way.

You mean gender swapping, gender bending is something else :p But they really aren't, Valerie is the spoiled rich girl who wants to do something else with her life and has the possibility to do it because she's rich. A real life example is Comtessa de Dia, one of the very few women composers to survive to this day, and she did it because she's a noblewoman with means. A woman who doesn't have that advantage has no other choice, Oleg's wife (Svetlana?) has no choice but to be an innkeeper. I'd argue Valerie's story isn't about her being beautiful, but her having the means to do whatever she wants to. Don't believe everything that comes out of the companions' mouths, or at least take it with a grain of salt, that is just their perspective. Amiri is the strong woman archetype, like the Nordic shield-maidens, and has the skill/brains to outwit the men in her life, much like Scheherazade.

 

[panda]

Amiri is the strong woman archetype, like the nordic shieldmaidens, and has the skill/brains to outwit the men in her life, much like Scheherazade.

 

[Delterius]

You mean gender swapping, gender bending is something else :p

 

[Delterius]

 

[Desiderius]

Gender bending is in fact somewhat classical, but not in a good way.

You mean gender swapping, gender bending is something else :p But they really aren't, Valerie is the spoiled rich girl who wants to do something else with her life and has the possibility to do it because she's rich. A woman who doesn't have that advantage has no other choice, Oleg's wife (Svetlana?) has no choice but to be an innkeeper. I'd argue Valerie's story isn't about her being beautiful, but her having the means to do whatever she wants to. Don't believe everything that comes out of the companions' mouths, or at least take it with a grain of salt, that is just their perspective. Amiri is the strong woman archetype, like the nordic shieldmaidens, and has the skill/brains to outwit the men in her life, much like Scheherazade.

Good God, a True Believer. Bending/swapping, same shit different day. Sexual reproduction is so widespread because it beats asexual. They both beat dying childless.

Val doesn't know what the fuck she wants. When you hate the True, the Good, and the Beautiful you're not just making a lifestyle choice you've gone completely off the rails.

Amiri is Rhonda Rousey level pathetic. All the Good choices stop her from doing (bad) things. She's the definition of false bravado. If you just stay quiet you hear her start to rightly doubt that this life is what she's cut out for.

But yeah, Eowyn, Shieldmaiden, whatevs. It's exceptional because it's the exception, not the rule. If you want to see what My Ántonia style strong womynk really looks like, see Nilak.

 

[Thonius]

Reg could've been alright if he was not so gay. Jubilost meh, did not cared much for his ark and quests.
And yeah they all start SJW like but quest show how they are fucked up inside.
Valerie conflict is that she always was beautiful and tried to downplay it, but when she lost it due to scar she realized that in fact she enjoys it and starts behaving like an ass. Or something like that.

Getting warmer.

They're all send-ups of woke bullshit. Mary Sue, Magic Negro, Poz shit, Pajama Boy, etc... They're Russkies so they throw in the Novelty-seeking, Good-with-money Jew for good measure.

Bruh they are not pozzed except for tristan, regoctavia. Mary sue? Hm is that about Val or negro? Never liked negro on second play-trough he just left me because I sided with trolls.

 

[Trashos]

I'd say PF:K's companions are classic archetypes, at least at first. You might be confusing "classic archetypes" with something else that you want.

Classic archetype is the buffed up dude fighting with the dragon at the the front, while the pretty lady is waiting to be impressed and heal his wounds at the back. I do not think that the strong woman excelling in physical combat was ever a classic archetype in the West. It is a DnD and current cultural climate peculiarity. It is OK in small dosages, but in this game it has been overdone.

As for the spoiled brat, I had not considered this angle for Val, but it still does not cut it. Whoever thought that Nalia was a success or that she was part of BG2's appeal?