Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[rusty_shackleford]

I'm sorry to say that traditional western culture is founded on christianity and there are no anime girl clerics here, unless you're a calvinist devil worshipper.

Personally we should never give in to degenerates.

Sexy nurses is a honorable western tradition though. I think we can work out a satisfying compromise.

I'm sure Tristian is sexy to some people, right Lacrymas

 

[Delterius]

I'm sorry to say that traditional western culture is founded on christianity and there are no anime girl clerics here, unless you're a calvinist devil worshipper.

Personally we should never give in to degenerates.

Sexy nurses is a honorable western tradition though. I think we can work out a satisfying compromise.

I'm sure Tristian is sexy to some people, right Lacrymas

unfortunately he's ecclesitheurge so he can't be your shieldmaiden gf

 

[Lacrymas]

I'm sure Tristian is sexy to some people, right Lacrymas

Maybe to some people, but I don't like long-haired twinks. Or men in general. Or women now that I think about it.

 

[Trashos]

Delterius , it does not have to be a deal breaker, because the female priest won't be Christian. I can be extremely open minded when motivated.

Lacrymas, if the writers don't want to write the characters I want, then fine. That's not what I am arguing about.

I am speaking about all games, but I am speaking about PKM specifically too. I have already mentioned in an earlier post that the writing in the game is very good, companions aside. But the companions are a disappointment. So I decided to treat the PKM writers as competent and intelligent people, who deserve respect. Thus, I gave my honest opinion on what I perceive as the weakest side of their work.

If I had thought they were idiots, I would not have wasted my time.

 

[Pink Eye]

Lacrymas, I have been trying very hard to explain to you that there is a huge chunk of the population that thinks like me. You sound as if you were surprised when Trump was elected.

There is a huge chunk of the population that wants a shieldmaiden gf

I want a big boobed Valerie with a big shield holding the front lines. Come on Codex bros, I can't be the only one here, right?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Valerie is perfect as is

 

[Delterius]

Delterius , it does not have to be a deal breaker, because the female priest won't be Christian. I can be extremely open minded when motivated.

Well, I can't. Anti western propaganda shouldn't be the topic of videogames.

 

[Lacrymas]

Wanting to have interesting characters does not seem entitled to me. Making mercs is not really the same thing.
You would be better trying to argue Amiri and Valerie are cool instead.

I'm all for criticism of writing so brutal even its mother won't like it after that, but this isn't it. "Amiri and Valerie should've been men" is not "wanting to have interesting characters". And I already talked about how the surface reading of Valerie is wrong even from only the first conversation with her. It IS interesting how her economic position is the only thing allowing her to be whatever she wants to be even though she isn't very good at it, that's a relevant, modern and human thing.

 

[Delterius]

tbh just turning valerie into a man is the same as swapping her avatar and model with tristian

a pretty boy who learns to enjoy being a twink

amiri sucks anyway because barbarians

 

[ArchAngel]

Lacrymas, I have been trying very hard to explain to you that there is a huge chunk of the population that thinks like me. You sound as if you were surprised when Trump was elected.

There is a huge chunk of the population that wants a shieldmaiden gif

This is the best that population will get:

 

[razvedchiki]

Do you want this thread to end up in retardoland?
Then stop with the retarded off topic.

 

[Delterius]

Do Sorcerer Bloodline powers count your total level for advancement? I saw someone with a multiclassed Sorcerer with dragon wings, but they didn't have the sorcerer levels for it. It was an Arcane Trickster build.

 

[Trashos]

Lacrymas, here are my initial posts at the start of the conversation (p. 398).

On the writing. I cannot judge the overall narrative yet, but the line-to-line writing is indeed very good. I might even call it top-tier game writing. It fits well with the flow of the game too, which is a concept that most other game writers don't grasp.

The companion concepts are a completely different matter, and I expect that most PKM fans will not be happy to hear my thoughts on them. I will leave those for a later post.

Well, here it is then.

- I can see there is character development to come, but still 2 very important companions (Val and Amiri) start as SJW archetypes. Even if they somehow mature (as I would put it) during the course of the game, it is clear that they will be remembered as the archetypes they represent. These are not interesting archetypes to me, and probably to a lot of other gamers who think like me (mild conservatives, let's say, who wouldn't even be considered conservatives 10 years ago).

- In games like this, it is always very important to get the tanking character right. All DAO players remember Alistair, all PoE players remember Eder. Valerie will also be remembered, but unfortunately she is not up to par. The concept behind her is very niche. And, to me, uninteresting. She is not the kind of woman I would hang out with. As a matter of fact, none of the female companions are the kind of women I would hang out with.

- I am more or less forced to use a party where the strong physical fighters are female (Val, Amiri, Jaethal), and the healers are male (Tristian, Harrim). It is not the kind of party I wanted to adventure with, I wanted it the other way around. Or, at least, mix it up some more. Also, at the beginning of the game I was forced to have an all female party (my character aside) with Val, Amiri and Linzi. Wth?!

- I am not saying that the game companions are attacking my sensibilities, because they are not. But that is a very low bar for this game, which we shouldn't even be considering.

- On the bright side, Jubilost is fun, done well, and probably the most memorable of the lot. The intelligent smartass archetype. I have not met Nok-Nok yet.

All in all, I find the companions disappointing. Even more so as compared to the general level of the writing (concepts included) in the game.

 

[Delterius]

Do Sorcerer Bloodline powers count your total level for advancement? I saw someone with a multiclassed Sorcerer with dragon wings, but they didn't have the sorcerer levels for it. It was an Arcane Trickster build.

will someone save me from using a mod to test this out pls

 

[Desiderius]

Finding refuge in irony is, too, a time-honored part of the Western tradition so carry on gentlemen.

As for personal impact, I have two-year-old twin sons. I want them to have characters they can identify with and draw inspiration from in their literature, games and otherwise, just as much as I sought it for Fredel Williams and Corey Flournoy of Techwood homes.

That’s all.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Do Sorcerer Bloodline powers count your total level for advancement? I saw someone with a multiclassed Sorcerer with dragon wings, but they didn't have the sorcerer levels for it. It was an Arcane Trickster build.

No. Bloodline sorcerer traits use class level. That's one reason why sorcerer is considered suboptimal choice for Arcane Trickster by many.

PS: They may be an Aasimar. That could explain the wings.

 

[Desiderius]

Finding refuge in irony is, too, a time-honored part of the Western tradition so carry on gentlemen.

As for personal impact, I have two-year-old twin sons. I want them to have characters they can identify with and draw inspiration from in their literature, games and otherwise, just as much as I sought it for Fredel Williams and Corey Flournoy of Techwood homes.

That’s all.

Well, Fredel would be almost forty now so I guess I could look him up. I have doubts that Corey made it.

At the rate he’s going the younger twin will be posting builds on here next year.

 

[Lacrymas]

Let's do this then.

- I can see there is character development to come, but still 2 very important companions (Val and Amiri) start as SJW archetypes. Even if they somehow mature (as I would put it) during the course of the game, it is clear that they will be remembered as the archetypes they represent. These are not interesting archetypes to me, and probably to a lot of other gamers who think like me (mild conservatives, let's say, who wouldn't even be considered conservatives 10 years ago).

- In games like this, it is always very important to get the tanking character right. All DAO players remember Alistair, all PoE players remember Eder. Valerie will also be remembered, but unfortunately she is not up to par. The concept behind her is very niche. And, to me, uninteresting. She is not the kind of woman I would hang out with. As a matter of fact, none of the female companions are the kind of women I would hang out with.

- I am more or less forced to use a party where the strong physical fighters are female (Val, Amiri, Jaethal), and the healers are male (Tristian, Harrim). It is not the kind of party I wanted to adventure with, I wanted it the other way around. Or, at least, mix it up some more. Also, at the beginning of the game I was forced to have an all female party (my character aside) with Val, Amiri and Linzi. Wth?!

- I am not saying that the game companions are attacking my sensibilities, because they are not. But that is a very low bar for this game, which we shouldn't even be considering.

I was thinking of replying separately, but these are all variations on a theme. Like I explained before, Valerie's shtick is 2-fold even from the start, on the surface she's a guardsman who shares that her beauty was a problem for her in whatever academy/church she comes from, but this isn't what is actually going on. She is immediately contrasted with Svetlana, who explains that she basically has no choice but to follow Oleg in whatever he plans to do, namely the inn atm. Which led me to believe that Valerie is ...not exactly lying, but doesn't have a very clear idea of the full picture. From her perspective, she was indeed worshiped as an idol of beauty and protected because of that, but she wouldn't be there if her family wasn't wealthy or influential in the first place, so she managed to escape from there, probably with quite a lot of cash because why wouldn't she take it, to try to be whatever she wants to be. So it is because of her heritage and beauty that she actually manages to become what she wants to, as opposed to Svetlana, who isn't as wealthy but would probably like to not be an innkeeper, especially since I presume her sister is in with the bandits. At least I detected a bit of that in her dialogue.

This is not an SJW stereotype, quite the contrary. She isn't a stronk womyn, she is a privileged girl who managed to cheat the system due to wealth and looks, and as Desiderius points out, she isn't even a good fighter. If this character isn't personally interesting to you, that's a completely different matter.

Whether these games NEED to get the tanking character (who should be a man?) right is a dubious claim. What if you are a tank yourself? You are presuming that everyone plays the same way you do. And this is the source of most of your complaints, that they don't align with whatever you think is the archetype of an RPG, you project that onto other people and blame the game/developers/companions for not sticking to that and not catering to "the big chunk of the population" of which you assume you are a part. Glossing over the fact that that's an argument from popularity of course. This argument is just baffling to me tbh, you are simply blaming the game for not catering specifically to you and how you usually play RPGs. What if I told you I usually play a bald female character or as grotesque of a character as I can manage? You'd say I'm free to do whatever I want, but in your proposed scenario nobody would ever cater to me, yet you expect games to cater to you. What should be my response? Would you say that I should just shut up and be happy that I'm given the option in the first place and can't expect anything from the companions? And being in the (presumed) majority gives you more of a right to be catered to and everyone else should know their place?

You aren't forced to use a party of anything, the game has an in-built feature to make whatever type of companions you want. I hated the PoE1 companions the first time I played it so I made my own. It's not that big of a deal, if you've ever played a game where you make your own party it shouldn't be weird. That doesn't fix the companions if the criticism of the writing is valid though. Which I don't think it is, at least on these grounds. I do agree Amiri is boring at first, but she's a Paizo signature character and couldn't have been anything else, blame the module/Paizo.

 

[Efe]

creating companions is not cheap unless you stay lv1 at olegs and play the system and even then how many you can get? 2? rest needs a lot of your early gold.

whether valerie is a good tank or not, starting with an armor tank that gets encumbered in armor and is barely able to hit anything with equipment shes specialized in makes for a horrible impression on new players. Really, why wouldnt you equip a tower shield specialist with tower shields? who wouldnt get annoyed with snail paced movement?
as for amiri, way she is ingame would be boring even if she was a man. shes not this incompetent in her original story either.

also stretching your simple (and weak) opinions into walls of text do not grant them any more credibility.

 

[panda]

I was thinking of replying separately, but these are all variations on a theme. Like I explained before, Valerie's shtick is 2-fold even from the start, on the surface she's a guardsman who shares that her beauty was a problem for her in whatever academy/church she comes from, but this isn't what is actually going on. She is immediately contrasted with Svetlana, who explains that she basically has no choice but to follow Oleg in whatever he plans to do, namely the inn atm. Which led me to believe that Valerie is ...not exactly lying, but doesn't have a very clear idea of the full picture. From her perspective, she was indeed worshiped as an idol of beauty and protected because of that, but she wouldn't be there if her family wasn't wealthy or influential in the first place, so she managed to escape from there, probably with quite a lot of cash because why wouldn't she take it, to try to be whatever she wants to be. So it is because of her heritage and beauty that she actually manages to become what she wants to, as opposed to Svetlana, who isn't as wealthy but would probably like to not be an innkeeper, especially since I presume her sister is in with the bandits. At least I detected a bit of that in her dialogue.

This is not an SJW stereotype, quite the contrary. She isn't a stronk womyn, she is a privileged girl who managed to cheat the system due to wealth and looks, and as Desiderius points out, she isn't even a good fighter. If this character isn't personally interesting to you, that's a completely different matter.

Interesting, but i got slightly different picture.
In her interpretation she got kidnapped as a kid by band of ravaging lunatics and forced to do some weird stuff because powerfull creature told them that is correct way to live their lives.
Even worse, it can be said that her family was brainwashed and sold her out due to political influence of said band respectful organization.
No wonder she hates "holy order" and sees blind worship to beauty as source of her problems(and blind worship in general, from here "atheism"), but admires opposite - strong persons who make own decisions and forge their own destiny(Jamandi, later MC).
Considering Val's upbringing her position is quite hypocritical indeed though, and for that she becomes punished by Godess who takes away her "useless" beauty.

 

[Nerevar]

A few observations. The way the system was implemented in pathfinder is inferior to NWN.

Spell reagents are just a punishment for being a spellcaster or using good spells. I was in the final chapter before I realized restoration was using my diamond dusts.

Improved critical doesn't stack with keen this is unfair to melee classes and game balance I don't think I've seen a range better than 15-20 why pick a rapier or scimitar if everything caps out at 15-20?

The spells available really suck compared to NWN and don't feel "epic" or "powerful" or even cool I can't think of a single "Yes I'm at caster level X now I can cast X!".

Loading screens. Although it is a bit better than launch still compared to NWN the amount and duration of the loading screens takes up a significant portion of you playtime. In saying these things I will still go for a 2nd playthrough and maybe a 3rd when they fix the game up a bit more.

 

[cruel]

I spent 4h on character creation. Good old times.

What's the consensus for 'Enemy stat adjustments' and 'enemy difficulty' for first playthrough? I feel like a pussy seeing them lower than normal (on default 'normal' difficulty), but maybe there is a reason?

 

[Desiderius]

I spent 4h on character creation. Good old times.

What's the consensus for 'Enemy stat adjustments' and 'enemy difficulty' for first playthrough? I feel like a pussy seeing them lower than normal (on default 'normal' difficulty), but maybe there is a reason?

If you spent four hours on character creation then read this:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/640820/discussions/7/1630790506920383184/

and start on Normal since the beginning just past the intro is the hardest part anyway. You can always kick it up when it gets too easy and/or subsequent playthroughs. I play most of the game on Unfair now but still start out Challenging/Hard.

 

[Funposter]

I feel like a pussy seeing them lower than normal (on default 'normal' difficulty), but maybe there is a reason?

I believe it's done to compensate for the stat bloat that enemies receive compared to the original PnP. Normal is perfectly difficult enough for a first time playthrough, especially if you're not the kind of person who religiously minmaxes.

 

[Pink Eye]

I feel like a pussy seeing them lower than normal (on default 'normal' difficulty), but maybe there is a reason?

I believe it's done to compensate for the stat bloat that enemies receive compared to the original PnP. Normal is perfectly difficult enough for a first time playthrough, especially if you're not the kind of person who religiously minmaxes.

>especially if you're not the kind of person who religiously minmaxes.
Sigh. I see even this place thinks you need to min max to succeed on unfair. Hint, you don't.