Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Nerevar]

Hmm.. I think I'll at least start my 2nd playthrough.

Just need to decide a build and difficulty. 1st playthrough was normal and 3 Pal 17 Slayer.

Maybe I will go on a harder difficulty. What are some viable builds for hard/unfair difficulty?

 

[Fedora Master]

Anything above Challenging becomes a slog and/or requires munchkin levels of bullshittery.

 

[Desiderius]

Well just finished up my first playthrough. The endings for the characters weren't great, I think I may have messed up a bit on some of the endings.

I really want to maximise the amount of things I do in my 2nd playthrough (optimal kingdom building, do secret sidequests). Just need to decide what character class I'll play. Also did anyone else have trouble with those mobs of Wild hunt monarchs and wild hunt archers? They kept paralyzing my henchmen and making everyone blind. What the hell is "blinding sickness" anyway?

There is probably a guide for kingdom building I should look at to beeline all of the good stuff like teleportation circle and the good crafters.

Wild Hunt have a Gaze attack that can paralyze and confuse every turn. You solve Paralyze part by using Freedom of Movement spell except Wild Hunt Monarch likes to cast Dispel Magic and Ghost Rogue enemies have Dispelling Sneak attack that also removes it.
Because of that best way to deal is to take Blind Fighting feat with every character you got because it also gives immunity to Gaze attacks and as a result immunity to both Paralyze and Confusion.

As for Blinding Sickness that is the spell that Ghost Mages love to spam on your party in every encounter. It is a cloud of disease that makes everyone blind that fails fort saves. There is no immunity to it (except monks and maybe paladins). Best you can do is stock up on lots of Heal and Mass Heal scrolls from cleric merchants before you set off for House at End of Time. Heal spell removes both Disease and Blind status effects.

Spider Legs gives party +3 Fort. Favorite Meal for Nok-nok if he's in your squad. That plus Shake it Off can get you to a point where it's a Critical Miss issue, which can be managed by various Remove Blindness effects. Sonic effects often have Stuns attached to "counter" Ghost Mages from casting.

 

[Desiderius]

Anything above Challenging becomes a slog and/or requires munchkin levels of bullshittery.

Maybe for Hate House - I haven't gotten back there since EE came out so I'll see soon - but that's not the case by mid-Ch 2 at the latest for the rest of the game.

 

[Desiderius]

Hmm.. I think I'll at least start my 2nd playthrough.

Just need to decide a build and difficulty. 1st playthrough was normal and 3 Pal 17 Slayer.

Maybe I will go on a harder difficulty. What are some viable builds for hard/unfair difficulty?

You can Haplo it up with Surprise Spells and Sword Saints or go with a Dream Team of Party-wide Effects (Bard, Freebooter, Cleric, Alchemist - optionally Tactical Leader/Vanguard). Can confirm that either one can crush any difficulty.

 

[Delterius]

Spell reagents are just a punishment for being a spellcaster or using good spells. I was in the final chapter before I realized restoration was using my diamond dusts.

If anything, more spells should have reagents and they should cost more.

only an anti mystic magic evil person would oppose reagents

 

[ArchAngel]

Well just finished up my first playthrough. The endings for the characters weren't great, I think I may have messed up a bit on some of the endings.

I really want to maximise the amount of things I do in my 2nd playthrough (optimal kingdom building, do secret sidequests). Just need to decide what character class I'll play. Also did anyone else have trouble with those mobs of Wild hunt monarchs and wild hunt archers? They kept paralyzing my henchmen and making everyone blind. What the hell is "blinding sickness" anyway?

There is probably a guide for kingdom building I should look at to beeline all of the good stuff like teleportation circle and the good crafters.

Wild Hunt have a Gaze attack that can paralyze and confuse every turn. You solve Paralyze part by using Freedom of Movement spell except Wild Hunt Monarch likes to cast Dispel Magic and Ghost Rogue enemies have Dispelling Sneak attack that also removes it.
Because of that best way to deal is to take Blind Fighting feat with every character you got because it also gives immunity to Gaze attacks and as a result immunity to both Paralyze and Confusion.

As for Blinding Sickness that is the spell that Ghost Mages love to spam on your party in every encounter. It is a cloud of disease that makes everyone blind that fails fort saves. There is no immunity to it (except monks and maybe paladins). Best you can do is stock up on lots of Heal and Mass Heal scrolls from cleric merchants before you set off for House at End of Time. Heal spell removes both Disease and Blind status effects.

Spider Legs gives party +3 Fort. Favorite Meal for Nok-nok if he's in your squad. That plus Shake it Off can get you to a point where it's a Critical Miss issue, which can be managed by various Remove Blindness effects. Sonic effects often have Stuns attached to "counter" Ghost Mages from casting.

You cannot cook while resting inside. Also ghosts and all undead should be immune to stun. You are just abusing ability that should not work on them.

 

[ArchAngel]

And I keep finding new irritating bugs.
First I found out that Traditional Monk subclass does not get +1 AC when reaching lvl 4 although his class ability says he should get it at lvl 4 and even in PnP he should get it at lvl 4.... then I found out that if you take a bard into Dragon Disciple and reach lvl 3 it says you are supposed to get Mage Armor added to your list of spells but you don't get it. I guess only sorcerers get it which is stupid if bards are allowed to get this prestige class...

I think I will need to respec this character into standard Monk and maybe respec DD one into sorcerer, I was counting on that mage armor because game does not offer 4 +4 AC bracers early and I already bought out all the mage armor scrolls and potions.

 

[Daidre]

Bokken sells Mage Armor Wand with 50 charges. Spell duration is 1h/level so it is covers monk needs until the chapter 2 and +3-4 bracers.

 

[Desiderius]

Well just finished up my first playthrough. The endings for the characters weren't great, I think I may have messed up a bit on some of the endings.

I really want to maximise the amount of things I do in my 2nd playthrough (optimal kingdom building, do secret sidequests). Just need to decide what character class I'll play. Also did anyone else have trouble with those mobs of Wild hunt monarchs and wild hunt archers? They kept paralyzing my henchmen and making everyone blind. What the hell is "blinding sickness" anyway?

There is probably a guide for kingdom building I should look at to beeline all of the good stuff like teleportation circle and the good crafters.

Wild Hunt have a Gaze attack that can paralyze and confuse every turn. You solve Paralyze part by using Freedom of Movement spell except Wild Hunt Monarch likes to cast Dispel Magic and Ghost Rogue enemies have Dispelling Sneak attack that also removes it.
Because of that best way to deal is to take Blind Fighting feat with every character you got because it also gives immunity to Gaze attacks and as a result immunity to both Paralyze and Confusion.

As for Blinding Sickness that is the spell that Ghost Mages love to spam on your party in every encounter. It is a cloud of disease that makes everyone blind that fails fort saves. There is no immunity to it (except monks and maybe paladins). Best you can do is stock up on lots of Heal and Mass Heal scrolls from cleric merchants before you set off for House at End of Time. Heal spell removes both Disease and Blind status effects.

Spider Legs gives party +3 Fort. Favorite Meal for Nok-nok if he's in your squad. That plus Shake it Off can get you to a point where it's a Critical Miss issue, which can be managed by various Remove Blindness effects. Sonic effects often have Stuns attached to "counter" Ghost Mages from casting.

You cannot cook while resting inside. Also ghosts and all undead should be immune to stun. You are just abusing ability that should not work on them.

That's why I designed my party not to need much rest. Food lasts 18 hrs, resting takes 8.

Stun is one of the few things that does work on them. Why should undead be immune to stun? It's not mind-affecting. Sonic attacks are based on sound, Ghosts aren't deaf.

 

[Desiderius]

I have tried to explain this to you before, and this discussion has happened earlier with other posters too. It is not a highly kept secret what character types appeal to almost everyone. It is what I called "classic archetypes". Hollywood uses them all the time, best seller authors use them all the time. They are similar to the chord progressions of the (pop) music industry, they work for lots of people and everyone knows it. They are known, not secret. When the writers diverge from those archetypes and I happen not to like the end result, it is not my fault. It is by default a risk that the writers took.

Now. Does that mean that the tanks have to be played safe and be boring copies of unoriginal ideas in order to be popular with the audience? For a game like PKM, hopefully not. However, extra attention and care has to be applied so that the characters and story arcs are relatable or interesting, because people ARE going to pay extra attention to the tank. Val diverged from said archetypes a lot, it seems that there are a lot of people who don't like her (as I hear), and her "I hate my beauty" introduction is probably a facepalming moment for most of the audience. It is like the writer tried to make her as unrelatable as possible. The execution of her introduction was a bit crude too. The ball was dropped.

I remember what you said in the beginning of you post, and I will pay attention to see if there is a hidden treasure in Val's case somewhere. I doubt it will change the public's perception of Valerie, but it might change mine.

PS. Playing with accepted archetypes does not have to be painfully boring, btw. Jubilost (intelligent smartass) is fun. Eder (the bro at the front protecting me) was fine, and one of the most popular PoE companions. As Avellone once said (but I will paraphrasing because I am talking from memory), a big thing for the end result is the execution, not just the concept. Ie, almost anything can be made entertaining with the right execution.

90% sure she already knows all that. It's no coincidence that those classic archetypes have gone missing, particularly the most prominent one among them.

That was (and is! They laid low for awhile after Gamergate but are now back out in the open) the specific, explicit target of the thugs (Silverstring Media) hired by the VCs behind Gamergate. Those VCs got into their pointy heads that there was a goldmine in woke games (they weren't entirely wrong - SJWs tend to be spoiled rich kids with a lot of money to blow) so set about bullying the suits who paid the devs and/or the devs who weren't yet interested in making them.

The results have been mixed at best so it's mostly a self-correcting problem, or more accurately a problem being solved by calm, reasoned arguments like the one you lay out here.

 

[Lacrymas]

Or, or, hear me out here, this is gonna be a bumpy ride, the suits figured out that somehow putting on a show of "inclusivity" is more profitable than not putting on a show. Major studios, whether that be gaming or movie, will not compromise profits for ideology, they will only pay lip service to whatever ideology is most profitable and to what extent. You are also blowing it way out of proportion, the statistics don't support what you are saying. They won't put gay protagonists for example, and even then, only 13ish % of major movies that came out last year have an "LGBT" *character* at all. I know you'd prefer there to be none, but profits say otherwise. Or let's take recent superhero movies, how many of them star a "strong" female protagonist? Captain Marvel, Wonder Woman aaaand. So, yeah, what you are saying is demonstrably false. I don't want to get into another one of these conversations, though, so I'll stop here. If you want more information, just google statistics for what you are afraid of, whether that be black children, young girls, or whatever.

 

[ArchAngel]

Well just finished up my first playthrough. The endings for the characters weren't great, I think I may have messed up a bit on some of the endings.

I really want to maximise the amount of things I do in my 2nd playthrough (optimal kingdom building, do secret sidequests). Just need to decide what character class I'll play. Also did anyone else have trouble with those mobs of Wild hunt monarchs and wild hunt archers? They kept paralyzing my henchmen and making everyone blind. What the hell is "blinding sickness" anyway?

There is probably a guide for kingdom building I should look at to beeline all of the good stuff like teleportation circle and the good crafters.

Wild Hunt have a Gaze attack that can paralyze and confuse every turn. You solve Paralyze part by using Freedom of Movement spell except Wild Hunt Monarch likes to cast Dispel Magic and Ghost Rogue enemies have Dispelling Sneak attack that also removes it.
Because of that best way to deal is to take Blind Fighting feat with every character you got because it also gives immunity to Gaze attacks and as a result immunity to both Paralyze and Confusion.

As for Blinding Sickness that is the spell that Ghost Mages love to spam on your party in every encounter. It is a cloud of disease that makes everyone blind that fails fort saves. There is no immunity to it (except monks and maybe paladins). Best you can do is stock up on lots of Heal and Mass Heal scrolls from cleric merchants before you set off for House at End of Time. Heal spell removes both Disease and Blind status effects.

Spider Legs gives party +3 Fort. Favorite Meal for Nok-nok if he's in your squad. That plus Shake it Off can get you to a point where it's a Critical Miss issue, which can be managed by various Remove Blindness effects. Sonic effects often have Stuns attached to "counter" Ghost Mages from casting.

You cannot cook while resting inside. Also ghosts and all undead should be immune to stun. You are just abusing ability that should not work on them.

That's why I designed my party not to need much rest. Food lasts 24 hrs, resting takes 8.

Stun is one of the few things that does work on them. Why should undead be immune to stun? It's not mind-affecting. Sonic attacks are based on sound, Ghosts aren't deaf.

To be able to be stunned you need a working nervous system. Undead and especially ghosts don't have that. Elementals are another type of creature that are immune to stun and they actually implemented that in this game.

Full description of stun effect is in pathfinder book, unfortunately online I can only find SRD where it gives a very short effect paragraph without any explanation.
But undead are supposed to be immune to it: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/undead/

Immunity to death effects, disease, paralysis, poison, sleep effects, and stunning.

 

[Haplo]

Thanks. Will start on normal and see how it goes.

And no, no minmaxing here. (carefully hides his Aasimar Sylvan Sorcerer with 20 CHA at the start)

No need to hide. You'll end up missing that Human Feat and skill points more than you'll appreciate that +2 to an off stat. They do look cool though.

20 is too costly though. Should have went with 19. Same final result.

Some builds also enjoy the Aasimar wings. Not necessarily sorcerers, though.

 

[Haplo]

Do Sorcerer Bloodline powers count your total level for advancement? I saw someone with a multiclassed Sorcerer with dragon wings, but they didn't have the sorcerer levels for it. It was an Arcane Trickster build.

PS: They may be an Aasimar. That could explain the wings.

Or use Eldiritch Arcana mod, which has several spells that grant wings.

Or have some Dragon Disciple levels which DO stack for Draconic Bloodline bonuses.

Last and least likely option are Alchemist Feral Wings.

 

[Haplo]

Hmm.. I think I'll at least start my 2nd playthrough.

Just need to decide a build and difficulty. 1st playthrough was normal and 3 Pal 17 Slayer.

Maybe I will go on a harder difficulty. What are some viable builds for hard/unfair difficulty?

You can Haplo it up with Surprise Spells and Sword Saints (...)

And Fauchard Vivi Trippers, don't forget those :D

As for the Dream Team, I think a Kinetic Knight would fit there. Valerie makes a solid one.

 

[razvedchiki]

i decided
i will make tristan mystic theurge!!
and ekundayo dual wield slayer!!!211!@#

 

[Yosharian]

Or, or, hear me out here, this is gonna be a bumpy ride, the suits figured out that somehow putting on a show of "inclusivity" is more profitable than not putting on a show. Major studios, whether that be gaming or movie, will not compromise profits for ideology, they will only pay lip service to whatever ideology is most profitable and to what extent. You are also blowing it way out of proportion, the statistics don't support what you are saying. They won't put gay protagonists for example, and even then, only 13ish % of major movies that came out last year have an "LGBT" *character* at all. I know you'd prefer there to be none, but profits say otherwise. Or let's take recent superhero movies, how many of them star a "strong" female protagonist? Captain Marvel, Wonder Woman aaaand. So, yeah, what you are saying is demonstrably false. I don't want to get into another one of these conversations, though, so I'll stop here. If you want more information, just google statistics for what you are afraid of, whether that be black children, young girls, or whatever.

Please stop. You're embarrassing yourself and it's painful to watch. You're better than this.

 

[Lacrymas]

It's always funny that you accuse me of embarrassing myself or that I'm out of touch with reality, or that I'm in an ivory tower, yet never provide any evidence or arguments to back this up. It's almost as if you are attacking me personally to deflect your lack of such, it's interesting how that works, huh.

 

[Efe]

would you accept the %0 support for your ideas and claims as evidence, if not outright proof?
didnt you dismiss avellone's explanation as "wrong" 1 page ago without further context, evidence or arguments to back it up?

 

[Lacrymas]

Even if nobody ever "supports my ideas and claims", which I don't know what it means, that still won't mean I'm wrong. If all the people in the world "don't support" that 2+2=4, it doesn't mean it will magically not be true. Argumentum ad populum etc.

Nobody has asked me to elaborate in the MCA thread, but I already have multiple times. Let's not start this again.

 

[Desiderius]

Hmm.. I think I'll at least start my 2nd playthrough.

Just need to decide a build and difficulty. 1st playthrough was normal and 3 Pal 17 Slayer.

Maybe I will go on a harder difficulty. What are some viable builds for hard/unfair difficulty?

You can Haplo it up with Surprise Spells and Sword Saints (...)

And Fauchard Vivi Trippers, don't forget those :D

As for the Dream Team, I think a Kinetic Knight would fit there. Valerie makes a solid one.

I’ve got her on that for my Slayer MC. Emphasis of Dream Team is Team = all Partywide focus. I guess her Whirlwind Trip could fit there. Maybe Earth/Air for Celerity? I’ve got her on Magma.

 

[ArchAngel]

Well just finished up my first playthrough. The endings for the characters weren't great, I think I may have messed up a bit on some of the endings.

I really want to maximise the amount of things I do in my 2nd playthrough (optimal kingdom building, do secret sidequests). Just need to decide what character class I'll play. Also did anyone else have trouble with those mobs of Wild hunt monarchs and wild hunt archers? They kept paralyzing my henchmen and making everyone blind. What the hell is "blinding sickness" anyway?

There is probably a guide for kingdom building I should look at to beeline all of the good stuff like teleportation circle and the good crafters.

Wild Hunt have a Gaze attack that can paralyze and confuse every turn. You solve Paralyze part by using Freedom of Movement spell except Wild Hunt Monarch likes to cast Dispel Magic and Ghost Rogue enemies have Dispelling Sneak attack that also removes it.
Because of that best way to deal is to take Blind Fighting feat with every character you got because it also gives immunity to Gaze attacks and as a result immunity to both Paralyze and Confusion.

As for Blinding Sickness that is the spell that Ghost Mages love to spam on your party in every encounter. It is a cloud of disease that makes everyone blind that fails fort saves. There is no immunity to it (except monks and maybe paladins). Best you can do is stock up on lots of Heal and Mass Heal scrolls from cleric merchants before you set off for House at End of Time. Heal spell removes both Disease and Blind status effects.

Spider Legs gives party +3 Fort. Favorite Meal for Nok-nok if he's in your squad. That plus Shake it Off can get you to a point where it's a Critical Miss issue, which can be managed by various Remove Blindness effects. Sonic effects often have Stuns attached to "counter" Ghost Mages from casting.

You cannot cook while resting inside. Also ghosts and all undead should be immune to stun. You are just abusing ability that should not work on them.

That's why I designed my party not to need much rest. Food lasts 24 hrs, resting takes 8.

Stun is one of the few things that does work on them. Why should undead be immune to stun? It's not mind-affecting. Sonic attacks are based on sound, Ghosts aren't deaf.

To be able to be stunned you need a working nervous system. Undead and especially ghosts don't have that. Elementals are another type of creature that are immune to stun and they actually implemented that in this game.

Full description of stun effect is in pathfinder book, unfortunately online I can only find SRD where it gives a very short effect paragraph without any explanation.
But undead are supposed to be immune to it: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/undead/

Immunity to death effects, disease, paralysis, poison, sleep effects, and stunning.

Yeah I saw that too. I think devs are using Stun here as a beefed up Deafen and since it’s one round only with Fort Save I’m good with it. Not unbalanced in the least.

Except it is not just with Sound spells. Normal Monk stun also works on them.
Now that I mention monk stun, I did the Harulka fight and I managed to stun both Harulka and Tartuk. Poor bastards died before they did much lol. Harulka rolled 1 on his Fort save :D

 

[Haplo]

Hmm.. I think I'll at least start my 2nd playthrough.

Just need to decide a build and difficulty. 1st playthrough was normal and 3 Pal 17 Slayer.

Maybe I will go on a harder difficulty. What are some viable builds for hard/unfair difficulty?

You can Haplo it up with Surprise Spells and Sword Saints (...)

And Fauchard Vivi Trippers, don't forget those :D

As for the Dream Team, I think a Kinetic Knight would fit there. Valerie makes a solid one.

I’ve got her on that for my Slayer MC. Emphasis of Dream Team is Team = all Partywide focus. I guess her Whirlwind Trip could fit there. Maybe Earth/Air for Celerity? I’ve got her on Magma.

Well, it works against individual early peak performance but... I've really enjoyed start with Electric element. It's a Touch attack, so very accurate and allows the early use of Magnetic Infusion for -4 enemy AC reduction for the rest of your party. And you still get Celerity, which is pretty great on a KK, who has next to nothing else to spend his Burn on.

Magma is certainly optimal from an individual's power POV. And lets specialize in Intimidation early, which should not be overlooked (but I now prefer Bards for my Intimidation needs).

Later on, Bowling Whirlwind certainly rocks in Turn Based. Optimal positioning in real-time is tricky - and enemies tend to die before you assume it.

 

[Desiderius]

Except it is not just with Sound spells. Normal Monk stun also works on them.
Now that I mention monk stun, I did the Harulka fight and I managed to stun both Harulka and Tartuk. Poor bastards died before they did much lol. Harulka rolled 1 on his Fort save :D

It's only fair that the monk stun works on something, it certainly doesn't do much in Ch 1/Varnhold. Again, full round action/one round effect = perfectly balanced even if it worked on everything.