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Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
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Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
Patron
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
14,835
Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Wtf, did EE change Bokken?!
When he uses the potion, he was never before this tough to kill. He gets 40 AC, +25 attacks, does 20+ damage per hit, has 10 unavoidable DR, crazy saves, cannot be flanked, immune to demoralize (and shatter defenses as a result), 44 CMD and lots of life. My 4 lvl 9 monks cannot do shit to him.

Poison and Spit Venom Ki Attacks should work. He's weak to Touch.
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
21,259
Wtf, did EE change Bokken?!
When he uses the potion, he was never before this tough to kill. He gets 40 AC, +25 attacks, does 20+ damage per hit, has 10 unavoidable DR, crazy saves, cannot be flanked, immune to demoralize (and shatter defenses as a result), 44 CMD and lots of life. My 4 lvl 9 monks cannot do shit to him.

Poison and Spit Venom Ki Attacks should work. He's weak to Touch.
I got neither. seems I will need to Scorching Ray him to death or something. Or I will come back at higher level when I got better attacks and AC.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
Patron
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
14,835
Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Wtf, did EE change Bokken?!
When he uses the potion, he was never before this tough to kill. He gets 40 AC, +25 attacks, does 20+ damage per hit, has 10 unavoidable DR, crazy saves, cannot be flanked, immune to demoralize (and shatter defenses as a result), 44 CMD and lots of life. My 4 lvl 9 monks cannot do shit to him.

Poison and Spit Venom Ki Attacks should work. He's weak to Touch.
I got neither. seems I will need to Scorching Ray him to death or something. Or I will come back at higher level when I got better attacks and AC.

Spit Venom is no save one round Blind at minimum. Probably worth picking up on at least one. Much better than Ray for what you’re doing. You might be able to Ray him to death via kiting or summons.

Don’t you have True Strike though? TS + Crushing Blow should work, right?
 

Sergiu64

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Jun 8, 2010
Messages
2,644
Location
Sic semper tyrannis.
Think some disabling spells worked on him when I fought him.

Had much more trouble with the ghost below Petax palace. Dude has like +45 profane saves bonus and pretty high DR. Ended up using divine damage dagger to burst him down.
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
21,259
Wtf, did EE change Bokken?!
When he uses the potion, he was never before this tough to kill. He gets 40 AC, +25 attacks, does 20+ damage per hit, has 10 unavoidable DR, crazy saves, cannot be flanked, immune to demoralize (and shatter defenses as a result), 44 CMD and lots of life. My 4 lvl 9 monks cannot do shit to him.

Poison and Spit Venom Ki Attacks should work. He's weak to Touch.
I got neither. seems I will need to Scorching Ray him to death or something. Or I will come back at higher level when I got better attacks and AC.

Spit Venom is no save one round Blind at minimum. Probably worth picking up on at least one. Much better than Ray for what you’re doing. You might be able to Ray him to death via kiting or summons.

Don’t you have True Strike though? TS + Crushing Blow should work, right?
I had to pick up natural armor and healing powers as I got no casters or healers as support. If this was a single monk in a standard party I would have picked different powers for sure.
Ray let me beat that crazy Tree in the Witch's area.
 

ga♥

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Feb 3, 2017
Messages
8,078
The Steelwind Sai is really a must for off-hand with any dual wielding fighter (+2 attacks per round).

I had it on my ranger playthrough but I can imagine it would be much better with a Slayer.
 

gurugeorge

Arcane
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Joined
Aug 3, 2019
Messages
7,894
Location
London, UK
Strap Yourselves In
I'm perfectly aware of Hollywood and bestselling book formulas, but I don't think this applies to niche things like PF:K. You are on a niche forum where deviance is not only celebrated but expected, otherwise we wouldn't get our RPGs ever. If everyone followed the formulas, we would only get the most popular genres atm, which are definitely not what we want, so I think that argument fails. If you are arguing that they should stick to tried and true things if they aren't sure of what they are doing, then I agree. I much more prefer them write traditional fairy-tale-like companions than trying to be deep like PoE1 and DF and failing, but I don't think Owlcat have failed at what they are trying to do with the companions, at least up to now, I have to play more to see where all of this is going to go. Most people failing to recognize what a character is about is not the writer's fault, at least if it's true that most people hate Valerie. Maybe they should've given her a better build, or at least not equip her with a tower shield, so she makes a better mechanical impression at first, but that's a bit different. Owlcat may have falsely assumed most people playing PF:K would be familiar with at least D&D 3E and would know that a tower shield at level 1 is not the best idea.

As for Valerie's character, what I'm saying isn't her arc, this is extrapolated from literally the first dialogue with her after the bandits attack Oleg's. If there is anything people should take away from this conversation is not to take a character at their word and that there may be hidden currents. This is the same with the Viconia thread, where some people trust her unconditionally without realizing she might be lying about everything or she might not be telling the whole truth, and also not taking into account her blatant approval of evil acts when determining whether she is evil or not. I do agree Valerie isn't very "relatable" with the whole "I'm too beautiful for this world" thing, but I don't hold relatability of a character in high regard or as a very important quality. I.e. people should change their criteria so they can appreciate more stuff. (Good) Taste is cultivated, not inborn.

I was on another thread the other day re. PF:K and I mused that, while objectively speaking the game is horrifically PC, for some reason it doesn't bother me as much as in some other similarly-infested games (which might even have less ostensible PC cult nonsense in them).

And I think that's because the writing in PF:K is actually ... well, dare I say it, actually quite good, with the degeneracy of the characters woven into the story in actually quite a thoughtful way, or at the very least a way that makes sense in context, doesn't pull me out of immersion.

I further mused that this might be the difference between something being written by someone who's a genuine pervert, versus something written by someone who's only doing their quota of corporate box-ticking for the day. Or to put it even more succinctly: the difference between writing driven by enthusiasm and writing driven by fear.

Another way of looking at it is that the PC aspects of PF:K don't come across as preachy. The characters just are who they are, it doesn't feel like they're there specifically to teach us heathens a lesson or finger-wag at us. It feels like someone just wants to tell their stories.
 
Last edited:

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
21,259
I'm perfectly aware of Hollywood and bestselling book formulas, but I don't think this applies to niche things like PF:K. You are on a niche forum where deviance is not only celebrated but expected, otherwise we wouldn't get our RPGs ever. If everyone followed the formulas, we would only get the most popular genres atm, which are definitely not what we want, so I think that argument fails. If you are arguing that they should stick to tried and true things if they aren't sure of what they are doing, then I agree. I much more prefer them write traditional fairy-tale-like companions than trying to be deep like PoE1 and DF and failing, but I don't think Owlcat have failed at what they are trying to do with the companions, at least up to now, I have to play more to see where all of this is going to go. Most people failing to recognize what a character is about is not the writer's fault, at least if it's true that most people hate Valerie. Maybe they should've given her a better build, or at least not equip her with a tower shield, so she makes a better mechanical impression at first, but that's a bit different. Owlcat may have falsely assumed most people playing PF:K would be familiar with at least D&D 3E and would know that a tower shield at level 1 is not the best idea.

As for Valerie's character, what I'm saying isn't her arc, this is extrapolated from literally the first dialogue with her after the bandits attack Oleg's. If there is anything people should take away from this conversation is not to take a character at their word and that there may be hidden currents. This is the same with the Viconia thread, where some people trust her unconditionally without realizing she might be lying about everything or she might not be telling the whole truth, and also not taking into account her blatant approval of evil acts when determining whether she is evil or not. I do agree Valerie isn't very "relatable" with the whole "I'm too beautiful for this world" thing, but I don't hold relatability of a character in high regard or as a very important quality. I.e. people should change their criteria so they can appreciate more stuff. (Good) Taste is cultivated, not inborn.

I was on another thread the other day re. PF:K and I mused that, while objectively speaking the game is horrifically PC, for some reason it doesn't bother me as much as in some other similarly-infested games (which might even have less ostensible PC cult nonsense in them).

And I think that's because the writing in PF:K is actually ... well, dare I say it, actually quite good, with the degeneracy of the characters woven into the story in actually quite a thoughtful way, or at the very least a way that makes sense in context, doesn't pull me out of immersion.

I further mused that this might be the difference between something being written by someone who's a genuine pervert, versus something written by someone who's only doing their quota of corporate box-ticking for the day. Or to put it even more succinctly: the difference between writing driven by enthusiasm and writing driven by fear.

Another way of looking at it is that the PC aspects of PF:K don't come across as preachy. The characters just are who they are, it doesn't feel like they're there specifically to teach us heathens a lesson or finger-wag at us. It feels like someone just wants to tell their stories.
Or maybe it means that just like most of the history best writers come from Europe (and Russia).
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
Patron
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
14,835
Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
I'm perfectly aware of Hollywood and bestselling book formulas, but I don't think this applies to niche things like PF:K. You are on a niche forum where deviance is not only celebrated but expected, otherwise we wouldn't get our RPGs ever. If everyone followed the formulas, we would only get the most popular genres atm, which are definitely not what we want, so I think that argument fails. If you are arguing that they should stick to tried and true things if they aren't sure of what they are doing, then I agree. I much more prefer them write traditional fairy-tale-like companions than trying to be deep like PoE1 and DF and failing, but I don't think Owlcat have failed at what they are trying to do with the companions, at least up to now, I have to play more to see where all of this is going to go. Most people failing to recognize what a character is about is not the writer's fault, at least if it's true that most people hate Valerie. Maybe they should've given her a better build, or at least not equip her with a tower shield, so she makes a better mechanical impression at first, but that's a bit different. Owlcat may have falsely assumed most people playing PF:K would be familiar with at least D&D 3E and would know that a tower shield at level 1 is not the best idea.

As for Valerie's character, what I'm saying isn't her arc, this is extrapolated from literally the first dialogue with her after the bandits attack Oleg's. If there is anything people should take away from this conversation is not to take a character at their word and that there may be hidden currents. This is the same with the Viconia thread, where some people trust her unconditionally without realizing she might be lying about everything or she might not be telling the whole truth, and also not taking into account her blatant approval of evil acts when determining whether she is evil or not. I do agree Valerie isn't very "relatable" with the whole "I'm too beautiful for this world" thing, but I don't hold relatability of a character in high regard or as a very important quality. I.e. people should change their criteria so they can appreciate more stuff. (Good) Taste is cultivated, not inborn.

I was on another thread the other day re. PF:K and I mused that, while objectively speaking the game is horrifically PC, for some reason it doesn't bother me as much as in some other similarly-infested games (which might even have less ostensible PC cult nonsense in them).

And I think that's because the writing in PF:K is actually ... well, dare I say it, actually quite good, with the degeneracy of the characters woven into the story in actually quite a thoughtful way, or at the very least a way that makes sense in context, doesn't pull me out of immersion.

I further mused that this might be the difference between something being written by someone who's a genuine pervert, versus something written by someone who's only doing their quota of corporate box-ticking for the day. Or to put it even more succinctly: the difference between writing driven by enthusiasm and writing driven by fear.

Another way of looking at it is that the PC aspects of PF:K don't come across as preachy. The characters just are who they are, it doesn't feel like they're there specifically to teach us heathens a lesson or finger-wag at us. It feels like someone just wants to tell their stories.

What’s horrifically PC about it? Russians know that Samizdat can’t be too obvious. Just because a CE Half-orc is perverted it doesn’t follow that the writers are. It can even be read to suggest something horrifically non-PC about people who somewhat resemble Orcs and their own not so secret predilections.
 

Thonius

Arcane
Joined
Sep 18, 2014
Messages
6,495
Location
Pro-Tip Corporation.
What's PC about them? Their quest show that it's all facade... underneath they are broken, fucked up and mostly miserable. Orc in my ending literally partied so hard he ruined what's left of his life.
 

the mole

Arbiter
Shitposter
Joined
Aug 1, 2019
Messages
1,933
I'm perfectly aware of Hollywood and bestselling book formulas, but I don't think this applies to niche things like PF:K. You are on a niche forum where deviance is not only celebrated but expected, otherwise we wouldn't get our RPGs ever. If everyone followed the formulas, we would only get the most popular genres atm, which are definitely not what we want, so I think that argument fails. If you are arguing that they should stick to tried and true things if they aren't sure of what they are doing, then I agree. I much more prefer them write traditional fairy-tale-like companions than trying to be deep like PoE1 and DF and failing, but I don't think Owlcat have failed at what they are trying to do with the companions, at least up to now, I have to play more to see where all of this is going to go. Most people failing to recognize what a character is about is not the writer's fault, at least if it's true that most people hate Valerie. Maybe they should've given her a better build, or at least not equip her with a tower shield, so she makes a better mechanical impression at first, but that's a bit different. Owlcat may have falsely assumed most people playing PF:K would be familiar with at least D&D 3E and would know that a tower shield at level 1 is not the best idea.

As for Valerie's character, what I'm saying isn't her arc, this is extrapolated from literally the first dialogue with her after the bandits attack Oleg's. If there is anything people should take away from this conversation is not to take a character at their word and that there may be hidden currents. This is the same with the Viconia thread, where some people trust her unconditionally without realizing she might be lying about everything or she might not be telling the whole truth, and also not taking into account her blatant approval of evil acts when determining whether she is evil or not. I do agree Valerie isn't very "relatable" with the whole "I'm too beautiful for this world" thing, but I don't hold relatability of a character in high regard or as a very important quality. I.e. people should change their criteria so they can appreciate more stuff. (Good) Taste is cultivated, not inborn.

I was on another thread the other day re. PF:K and I mused that, while objectively speaking the game is horrifically PC, for some reason it doesn't bother me as much as in some other similarly-infested games (which might even have less ostensible PC cult nonsense in them).

And I think that's because the writing in PF:K is actually ... well, dare I say it, actually quite good, with the degeneracy of the characters woven into the story in actually quite a thoughtful way, or at the very least a way that makes sense in context, doesn't pull me out of immersion.

I further mused that this might be the difference between something being written by someone who's a genuine pervert, versus something written by someone who's only doing their quota of corporate box-ticking for the day. Or to put it even more succinctly: the difference between writing driven by enthusiasm and writing driven by fear.

Another way of looking at it is that the PC aspects of PF:K don't come across as preachy. The characters just are who they are, it doesn't feel like they're there specifically to teach us heathens a lesson or finger-wag at us. It feels like someone just wants to tell their stories.
Or maybe it means that just like most of the history best writers come from Europe (and Russia).
I'm American and my lineage from Europe, this makes me European
 

santino27

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
2,782
My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit.
I'm perfectly aware of Hollywood and bestselling book formulas, but I don't think this applies to niche things like PF:K. You are on a niche forum where deviance is not only celebrated but expected, otherwise we wouldn't get our RPGs ever. If everyone followed the formulas, we would only get the most popular genres atm, which are definitely not what we want, so I think that argument fails. If you are arguing that they should stick to tried and true things if they aren't sure of what they are doing, then I agree. I much more prefer them write traditional fairy-tale-like companions than trying to be deep like PoE1 and DF and failing, but I don't think Owlcat have failed at what they are trying to do with the companions, at least up to now, I have to play more to see where all of this is going to go. Most people failing to recognize what a character is about is not the writer's fault, at least if it's true that most people hate Valerie. Maybe they should've given her a better build, or at least not equip her with a tower shield, so she makes a better mechanical impression at first, but that's a bit different. Owlcat may have falsely assumed most people playing PF:K would be familiar with at least D&D 3E and would know that a tower shield at level 1 is not the best idea.

As for Valerie's character, what I'm saying isn't her arc, this is extrapolated from literally the first dialogue with her after the bandits attack Oleg's. If there is anything people should take away from this conversation is not to take a character at their word and that there may be hidden currents. This is the same with the Viconia thread, where some people trust her unconditionally without realizing she might be lying about everything or she might not be telling the whole truth, and also not taking into account her blatant approval of evil acts when determining whether she is evil or not. I do agree Valerie isn't very "relatable" with the whole "I'm too beautiful for this world" thing, but I don't hold relatability of a character in high regard or as a very important quality. I.e. people should change their criteria so they can appreciate more stuff. (Good) Taste is cultivated, not inborn.

I was on another thread the other day re. PF:K and I mused that, while objectively speaking the game is horrifically PC, for some reason it doesn't bother me as much as in some other similarly-infested games (which might even have less ostensible PC cult nonsense in them).

And I think that's because the writing in PF:K is actually ... well, dare I say it, actually quite good, with the degeneracy of the characters woven into the story in actually quite a thoughtful way, or at the very least a way that makes sense in context, doesn't pull me out of immersion.

I further mused that this might be the difference between something being written by someone who's a genuine pervert, versus something written by someone who's only doing their quota of corporate box-ticking for the day. Or to put it even more succinctly: the difference between writing driven by enthusiasm and writing driven by fear.

Another way of looking at it is that the PC aspects of PF:K don't come across as preachy. The characters just are who they are, it doesn't feel like they're there specifically to teach us heathens a lesson or finger-wag at us. It feels like someone just wants to tell their stories.

I mean... it's the difference between self-inserts and characters grounded in the game's world/lore. Just avoiding Whedonisms and modern vernacular goes a long way too.
 

Nerevar

N'wah
Patron
Repressed Homosexual
Joined
Jul 10, 2017
Messages
1,143
Location
Balmora
Make the Codex Great Again! Pathfinder: Wrath
Disco is the same price as pathfinder.

Does the amount of content you get in Disco make sense compared to the content in kingmaker? Not at all, also the main character for Disco is a cuckold. Would not play.
 

Daidre

Arcane
Joined
Jan 30, 2019
Messages
2,003
Location
Samara
Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
I have completed Disco in 30 hours. Amazing game and I will definitely replay at least once.

But I have already logged 1.6k hours in P:K and would probably play for x2-x3 more in the years to come. It is kinda new BGT for me. Different category.
 

Nameless Codexian

Guest
I find it odd that this game garnered enough votes to win the RPG Codex GOTY 2018 award yet in the time duration from then until now, Nobody has yet to submit an "official" review (like the one that Darth Roxor penned for POE) for this game?

Not a single one?

Is this really how this supposedly prestigious site for crpgs conduct itself?

How disappointing.
 

gurugeorge

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 3, 2019
Messages
7,894
Location
London, UK
Strap Yourselves In
What's PC about them? Their quest show that it's all facade... underneath they are broken, fucked up and mostly miserable. Orc in my ending literally partied so hard he ruined what's left of his life.

Maybe that's it, maybe it's what you and Desiderius are saying - maybe it's that there's something a bit cheeky and subversive about the use of PC tropes in this game. Now that I think about it, even outside the PC/non-PC question, there are lots of bits of the story that turn out genuinely sad and/or have irresolvable dilemmas.

It's a bit like GRRM's writing, in that while there's still a kind of slight overall weighting towards the Good, the resolutions are often somewhat "sticky," or bittersweet, with a sting in the tail, never quite fully satisfying expectations. I think even with the PC stuff in this game, it never quite goes the way you'd expect it to go. But it's not done in a mechanical way, like, "Hurr durr Ima not satisfy your expectations, nyer nyer!" (like, say in that last execrable Star Wars movie). It's organic, and in retrospect seems inevitable.

As I say, actually quite good writing.

[Later thought: reading in the TW3 thread, I'm reminded of the Baron's story in TW3 - at first you're led to think of it in Feminist terms, the Baron seems like the archetype of "toxic masculinity," but as the story unfolds, you start thinking of it in a deeper and more nuanced way.]
 
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VentilatorOfDoom

Administrator
Staff Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2009
Messages
8,603
Location
Deutschland
@ haplo which weapons would you reccomend for dual wielding?having the dagger to the off hand that grants +3 to ac is a good option?
You will get the +3 dodge AC even if you put the dagger into a secondary, non-active weapon slot, the same is true for other weapons and their bonuses, like Freedom of Movement or CMB bonuses etc.
 

Pink Eye

Monk
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Joined
Oct 10, 2019
Messages
6,195
Location
Space Refrigerator
I'm very into cock and ball torture
@ haplo which weapons would you reccomend for dual wielding?having the dagger to the off hand that grants +3 to ac is a good option?
You will get the +3 dodge AC even if you put the dagger into a secondary, non-active weapon slot, the same is true for other weapons and their bonuses, like Freedom of Movement or CMB bonuses etc.
No way. I need screenshots.
 

VentilatorOfDoom

Administrator
Staff Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2009
Messages
8,603
Location
Deutschland
No way. I need screenshots.
I always (ab)used this. I know it is the case, because it always worked for me (can easily be checked in the combat log), couple months ago when I played that DLC dungeon it was still so. I won't reinstall the game to make a screenshot. It's possible to find other people's screenshot though: https://i.imgur.com/K91pcgR.png
With many weapons it actually only works when the mainchar is doing it, but not for companions.
 

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