Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[cruel]

Thanks. Will start on normal and see how it goes.

And no, no minmaxing here. (carefully hides his Aasimar Sylvan Sorcerer with 20 CHA at the start)

 

[Yosharian]

Core Rules is perfectly fine

 

[santino27]

I spent 4h on character creation. Good old times.

What's the consensus for 'Enemy stat adjustments' and 'enemy difficulty' for first playthrough? I feel like a pussy seeing them lower than normal (on default 'normal' difficulty), but maybe there is a reason?

For first playthrough, especially if you're not familiar, I'd set it to Challenging and then change enemy stat adjustments to normal, basicaly matching core rules (or as close as you'll get unmodded).

 

[Desiderius]

Thanks. Will start on normal and see how it goes.

And no, no minmaxing here. (carefully hides his Aasimar Sylvan Sorcerer with 20 CHA at the start)

No need to hide. You'll end up missing that Human Feat and skill points more than you'll appreciate that +2 to an off stat. They do look cool though.

 

[Nerevar]

Well just finished up my first playthrough. The endings for the characters weren't great, I think I may have messed up a bit on some of the endings.

I really want to maximise the amount of things I do in my 2nd playthrough (optimal kingdom building, do secret sidequests). Just need to decide what character class I'll play. Also did anyone else have trouble with those mobs of Wild hunt monarchs and wild hunt archers? They kept paralyzing my henchmen and making everyone blind. What the hell is "blinding sickness" anyway?

There is probably a guide for kingdom building I should look at to beeline all of the good stuff like teleportation circle and the good crafters.

 

[Desiderius]

Well just finished up my first playthrough. The endings for the characters weren't great, I think I may have messed up a bit on some of the endings.

I really want to maximise the amount of things I do in my 2nd playthrough (optimal kingdom building, do secret sidequests). Just need to decide what character class I'll play. Also did anyone else have trouble with those mobs of Wild hunt monarchs and wild hunt archers? They kept paralyzing my henchmen and making everyone blind. What the hell is "blinding sickness" anyway?

There is probably a guide for kingdom building I should look at to beeline all of the good stuff like teleportation circle and the good crafters.

Did they have Blindfight?

 

[Nerevar]

Did they have Blindfight?

My PC didn't don't know if the henchmen take it by default they were all default builds.

My characters ending stats.

Edit: Playthrough was on normal difficulty. Never really needed to use buffs at all through the whole game just used swarm of elementals on fights that were very hard.

 

[Yosharian]

I don't really see how to optimize Kingdom management other than having a priority for what projects you build first. I mean the system is essentially just a giant RNG-fest. I'm hoping by the time I get around to playing this a second time that the Kingdom management mod will be updated so I can just skip all the RNG completely.

Also a mod that allows me to select which items I get from artisans would be fantastic but I suppose that will never happen

 

[Desiderius]

I don't really see how to optimize Kingdom management other than having a priority for what projects you build first. I mean the system is essentially just a giant RNG-fest. I'm hoping by the time I get around to playing this a second time that the Kingdom management mod will be updated so I can just skip all the RNG completely.

Also a mod that allows me to select which items I get from artisans would be fantastic but I suppose that will never happen

If you manage your kingdom well the RNG plays a minimal role initially and none after that.

General rule in these sorts of games is that if you're complaining about the RNG there's something you've missed. Usually a lot of somethings in this game.

 

[Nerevar]

I don't really see how to optimize Kingdom management other than having a priority for what projects you build first. I mean the system is essentially just a giant RNG-fest. I'm hoping by the time I get around to playing this a second time that the Kingdom management mod will be updated so I can just skip all the RNG completely.

Also a mod that allows me to select which items I get from artisans would be fantastic but I suppose that will never happen

Yeah I'll look into this mod also for the artisans a solution to this would be choosing from a list of possible items?

At the end of the game I had two of these scimitars and four of these plate armours.

Also even if you just need extra gold some artisans will give you items that sell for loads.

 

[Desiderius]

I don't really see how to optimize Kingdom management other than having a priority for what projects you build first. I mean the system is essentially just a giant RNG-fest. I'm hoping by the time I get around to playing this a second time that the Kingdom management mod will be updated so I can just skip all the RNG completely.

Also a mod that allows me to select which items I get from artisans would be fantastic but I suppose that will never happen

Yeah I'll look into this mod also for the artisans a solution to this would be choosing from a list of possible items?

At the end of the game I had two of these scimitars and four of these plate armours.

Also even if you just need extra gold some artisans will give you items that sell for loads.

That mod is bad news. Don’t think it’s even still being maintained. Looks like you’re already doing fine on Kingdom Management without a mod.

 

[Nerevar]

That mod is bad news. Don’t think it’s even still being maintained. Looks like you’re already doing fine on Kingdom Management without a mod.

I'd just like to know what happens and when. There is an upgrade that gives you 50% off research times and divine 3 or 5 unlocks arcane slot. There has to be an optimal way of doing things.

 

[Desiderius]

That mod is bad news. Don’t think it’s even still being maintained. Looks like you’re already doing fine on Kingdom Management without a mod.

I'd just like to know what happens and when. There is an upgrade that gives you 50% off research times and divine 3 or 5 unlocks arcane slot. There has to be an optimal way of doing things.

I’m getting close but I’m also on my fifth time through. You play with things as you go and learn what works.

You get the 50% off rank up times after 40 rank ups. I think you need Econ 6 too. Arcane unlocks at Divine 60. After you get the free Shrine (one week) you keep your Priest (Harrim) free at all times to jump on events and give him all crisis points. You can put shrine crosses with a monument in the middle of your first three settlements to get 24 Divine. You’ll have to disagree with him at one rank up to get an extra +3.

 

[Yosharian]

I don't really see how to optimize Kingdom management other than having a priority for what projects you build first. I mean the system is essentially just a giant RNG-fest. I'm hoping by the time I get around to playing this a second time that the Kingdom management mod will be updated so I can just skip all the RNG completely.

Also a mod that allows me to select which items I get from artisans would be fantastic but I suppose that will never happen

If you manage your kingdom well the RNG plays a minimal role initially and none after that.

View attachment 11603

View attachment 11604

General rule in these sorts of games is that if you're complaining about the RNG there's something you've missed. Usually a lot of somethings in this game.

13 DC! LOL get back to me when your DCs get to 30+

 

[Desiderius]

I don't really see how to optimize Kingdom management other than having a priority for what projects you build first. I mean the system is essentially just a giant RNG-fest. I'm hoping by the time I get around to playing this a second time that the Kingdom management mod will be updated so I can just skip all the RNG completely.

Also a mod that allows me to select which items I get from artisans would be fantastic but I suppose that will never happen

If you manage your kingdom well the RNG plays a minimal role initially and none after that.

View attachment 11603

View attachment 11604

General rule in these sorts of games is that if you're complaining about the RNG there's something you've missed. Usually a lot of somethings in this game.

13 DC! LOL get back to me when your DCs get to 30+

Will do. Staying ahead of the curve isn’t a problem with the crisis points.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Spell reagents are just a punishment for being a spellcaster or using good spells. I was in the final chapter before I realized restoration was using my diamond dusts.

If anything, more spells should have reagents and they should cost more.

 

[Nerevar]

If anything, more spells should have reagents and they should cost more.

Why? Further punishment for playing a caster? As is their spells are poo poo anyway except a few like Elemental swarm.

It doesn't make sense for a sorcerer to have to use reagents anyway.

 

[santino27]

I don't really see how to optimize Kingdom management other than having a priority for what projects you build first. I mean the system is essentially just a giant RNG-fest. I'm hoping by the time I get around to playing this a second time that the Kingdom management mod will be updated so I can just skip all the RNG completely.

Also a mod that allows me to select which items I get from artisans would be fantastic but I suppose that will never happen

If you manage your kingdom well the RNG plays a minimal role initially and none after that.

View attachment 11603

View attachment 11604

General rule in these sorts of games is that if you're complaining about the RNG there's something you've missed. Usually a lot of somethings in this game.

13 DC! LOL get back to me when your DCs get to 30+

Crisis points went a long way to making kingdom management easier. If that's not enough, you can set it to easy which lowers the DC of those events.

 

[Trashos]

Like I explained before, Valerie's shtick is 2-fold even from the start, on the surface she's a guardsman who shares that her beauty was a problem for her in whatever academy/church she comes from, but this isn't what is actually going on. She is immediately contrasted with Svetlana, who explains that she basically has no choice but to follow Oleg in whatever he plans to do, namely the inn atm. Which led me to believe that Valerie is ...not exactly lying, but doesn't have a very clear idea of the full picture. From her perspective, she was indeed worshiped as an idol of beauty and protected because of that, but she wouldn't be there if her family wasn't wealthy or influential in the first place, so she managed to escape from there, probably with quite a lot of cash because why wouldn't she take it, to try to be whatever she wants to be. So it is because of her heritage and beauty that she actually manages to become what she wants to, as opposed to Svetlana, who isn't as wealthy but would probably like to not be an innkeeper, especially since I presume her sister is in with the bandits. At least I detected a bit of that in her dialogue.

This is not an SJW stereotype, quite the contrary. She isn't a stronk womyn, she is a privileged girl who managed to cheat the system due to wealth and looks, and as Desiderius points out, she isn't even a good fighter. If this character isn't personally interesting to you, that's a completely different matter.

You will have to let me pay attention to this arc, because as I told you yesterday I had not considered it. I will keep an eye open for it and let you know if I find it interesting. The contrast between Val's and Svetlana's situations is indeed interesting. I like things like that.

Whether these games NEED to get the tanking character (who should be a man?) right is a dubious claim. What if you are a tank yourself? You are presuming that everyone plays the same way you do.

It doesn't matter if I am a tank, PKM parties work well with 2 tanks. The tanks are very emotionally engaging to the player, because it is a very crucial job. Often, when the tank goes, the whole party goes. Bioware and Obsidian have realized this and have paid the needed attention to the position.

Generally, I would advise against taking too many risks with the tank characters. There are other companions for such risk taking. You seem to be assuming that there are no general rules because everyone has their own tastes, but it is not the case. There are rules, and whenever we break them we have to be ready to pay the price.

And this is the source of most of your complaints, that they don't align with whatever you think is the archetype of an RPG, you project that onto other people and blame the game/developers/companions for not sticking to that and not catering to "the big chunk of the population" of which you assume you are a part. Glossing over the fact that that's an argument from popularity of course. This argument is just baffling to me tbh, you are simply blaming the game for not catering specifically to you and how you usually play RPGs. What if I told you I usually play a bald female character or as grotesque of a character as I can manage? You'd say I'm free to do whatever I want, but in your proposed scenario nobody would ever cater to me, yet you expect games to cater to you.

I have tried to explain this to you before, and this discussion has happened earlier with other posters too. It is not a highly kept secret what character types appeal to almost everyone. It is what I called "classic archetypes". Hollywood uses them all the time, best seller authors use them all the time. They are similar to the chord progressions of the (pop) music industry, they work for lots of people and everyone knows it. They are known, not secret. When the writers diverge from those archetypes and I happen not to like the end result, it is not my fault. It is by default a risk that the writers took.

Now. Does that mean that the tanks have to be played safe and be boring copies of unoriginal ideas in order to be popular with the audience? For a game like PKM, hopefully not. However, extra attention and care has to be applied so that the characters and story arcs are relatable or interesting, because people ARE going to pay extra attention to the tank. Val diverged from said archetypes a lot, it seems that there are a lot of people who don't like her (as I hear), and her "I hate my beauty" introduction is probably a facepalming moment for most of the audience. It is like the writer tried to make her as unrelatable as possible. The execution of her introduction was a bit crude too. The ball was dropped.

I remember what you said in the beginning of you post, and I will pay attention to see if there is a hidden treasure in Val's case somewhere. I doubt it will change the public's perception of Valerie, but it might change mine.

PS. Playing with accepted archetypes does not have to be painfully boring, btw. Jubilost (intelligent smartass) is fun. Eder (the bro at the front protecting me) was fine, and one of the most popular PoE companions. As Avellone once said (but I will paraphrasing because I am talking from memory), a big thing for the end result is the execution, not just the concept. Ie, almost anything can be made entertaining with the right execution.

 

[Lacrymas]

I'm perfectly aware of Hollywood and bestselling book formulas, but I don't think this applies to niche things like PF:K. You are on a niche forum where deviance is not only celebrated but expected, otherwise we wouldn't get our RPGs ever. If everyone followed the formulas, we would only get the most popular genres atm, which are definitely not what we want, so I think that argument fails. If you are arguing that they should stick to tried and true things if they aren't sure of what they are doing, then I agree. I much more prefer them write traditional fairy-tale-like companions than trying to be deep like PoE1 and DF and failing, but I don't think Owlcat have failed at what they are trying to do with the companions, at least up to now, I have to play more to see where all of this is going to go. Most people failing to recognize what a character is about is not the writer's fault, at least if it's true that most people hate Valerie. Maybe they should've given her a better build, or at least not equip her with a tower shield, so she makes a better mechanical impression at first, but that's a bit different. Owlcat may have falsely assumed most people playing PF:K would be familiar with at least D&D 3E and would know that a tower shield at level 1 is not the best idea.

As for Valerie's character, what I'm saying isn't her arc, this is extrapolated from literally the first dialogue with her after the bandits attack Oleg's. If there is anything people should take away from this conversation is not to take a character at their word and that there may be hidden currents. This is the same with the Viconia thread, where some people trust her unconditionally without realizing she might be lying about everything or she might not be telling the whole truth, and also not taking into account her blatant approval of evil acts when determining whether she is evil or not. I do agree Valerie isn't very "relatable" with the whole "I'm too beautiful for this world" thing, but I don't hold relatability of a character in high regard or as a very important quality. I.e. people should change their criteria so they can appreciate more stuff. (Good) Taste is cultivated, not inborn.

 

[Yosharian]

Do you ever climb down from your ivory tower from time to time and slum it with the rest of us peons, Lacrymas? It must get lonely up there from time to time

 

[Lacrymas]

How is this an ivory tower situation?

 

[ArchAngel]

Well just finished up my first playthrough. The endings for the characters weren't great, I think I may have messed up a bit on some of the endings.

I really want to maximise the amount of things I do in my 2nd playthrough (optimal kingdom building, do secret sidequests). Just need to decide what character class I'll play. Also did anyone else have trouble with those mobs of Wild hunt monarchs and wild hunt archers? They kept paralyzing my henchmen and making everyone blind. What the hell is "blinding sickness" anyway?

There is probably a guide for kingdom building I should look at to beeline all of the good stuff like teleportation circle and the good crafters.

Wild Hunt have a Gaze attack that can paralyze and confuse every turn. You solve Paralyze part by using Freedom of Movement spell except Wild Hunt Monarch likes to cast Dispel Magic and Ghost Rogue enemies have Dispelling Sneak attack that also removes it.
Because of that best way to deal is to take Blind Fighting feat with every character you got because it also gives immunity to Gaze attacks and as a result immunity to both Paralyze and Confusion.

As for Blinding Sickness that is the spell that Ghost Mages love to spam on your party in every encounter. It is a cloud of disease that makes everyone blind that fails fort saves. There is no immunity to it (except monks and maybe paladins). Best you can do is stock up on lots of Heal and Mass Heal scrolls from cleric merchants before you set off for House at End of Time. Heal spell removes both Disease and Blind status effects.

 

[Nerevar]

I ended up using swarms of fire elementals to clear out most of those difficult fights.

How is this an ivory tower situation?

Because you are detached from reality.

 

[user]

Still waiting for a mod that buffs Wildshape or adds more end-game forms so that I can do a druid solo playthrough without getting bored or being a 99% spellcaster again. "Call of the wild" doesn't cut it. Tried to decompile the dlls to add some myself but need to do a ton of reading and searching and it's not worth it. If anyone, by chance, knows a fast way to do that, let me know.