Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[ArchAngel]

You don't roll saves vs poison in PnP if duration of delay poison outlasts poison duration. And things like Cloudkill and Stinking Cloud have low durations.

As for abusing stuff in pnp we always had a deal that if players abuse shit, DM will use same tricks vs the players. For example if death spells are your main solution to problems expect to be bombarded back with all kinds of spells of similar kind (polymorph other, flesh to stone, slay living, disintegrate and higher ones).

 

[rusty_shackleford]

You don't roll saves vs poison in PnP if duration of delay poison outlasts poison duration. And things like Cloudkill and Stinking Cloud have low durations.

As for abusing stuff in pnp we always had a deal that if players abuse shit, DM will use same tricks vs the players. For example if death spells are your main solution to problems expect to be bombarded back with all kinds of spells of similar kind (polymorph other, flesh to stone, slay living, disintegrate and higher ones).

easier to just pelt them with your dice

 

[ArchAngel]

You don't roll saves vs poison in PnP if duration of delay poison outlasts poison duration. And things like Cloudkill and Stinking Cloud have low durations.

As for abusing stuff in pnp we always had a deal that if players abuse shit, DM will use same tricks vs the players. For example if death spells are your main solution to problems expect to be bombarded back with all kinds of spells of similar kind (polymorph other, flesh to stone, slay living, disintegrate and higher ones).

easier to just pelt them with your dice

I didn't solve shit that way. If it got to the stage you felt like you needed to throw dice at someone, it was easier to not invite them to the next session.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

You don't roll saves vs poison in PnP if duration of delay poison outlasts poison duration. And things like Cloudkill and Stinking Cloud have low durations.

As for abusing stuff in pnp we always had a deal that if players abuse shit, DM will use same tricks vs the players. For example if death spells are your main solution to problems expect to be bombarded back with all kinds of spells of similar kind (polymorph other, flesh to stone, slay living, disintegrate and higher ones).

easier to just pelt them with your dice

I didn't solve shit that way. If it got to the stage you felt like you needed to throw dice at someone, it was easier to not invite them to the next session.

Throwing dice at someone is a natural part of tabletop gaming

 

[ArchAngel]

You don't roll saves vs poison in PnP if duration of delay poison outlasts poison duration. And things like Cloudkill and Stinking Cloud have low durations.

As for abusing stuff in pnp we always had a deal that if players abuse shit, DM will use same tricks vs the players. For example if death spells are your main solution to problems expect to be bombarded back with all kinds of spells of similar kind (polymorph other, flesh to stone, slay living, disintegrate and higher ones).

easier to just pelt them with your dice

I didn't solve shit that way. If it got to the stage you felt like you needed to throw dice at someone, it was easier to not invite them to the next session.

Throwing dice at someone is a natural part of tabletop gaming

Depends at what age you played it. I first got introduced at 18 and started DMing at 20 and got really serious about it few years later.

 

[Yosharian]

You don't roll saves vs poison in PnP if duration of delay poison outlasts poison duration. And things like Cloudkill and Stinking Cloud have low durations.

You are incorrect.

I mean, the spell is called Delay Poison, the concept is that it delays the effects of poison. The poison cannot run its course if it is delayed. Poisons are processed in the body by being metabolized or absorbed - no such process can take place if the body is currently immune to poison. You track the different poisons that affected the PC, and the frequency of exposure, then resolve the effects once the spell wears off.

If the PC stands in Cloudkill for 10 rounds, for example, once Delay Poison wears off, the PC must make ten saves back-to-back, to represent all the vapors they inhaled from the spell.

The way I imagine it is that there is magic preventing the poison from being absorbed into the body, or metabolized, so it just hangs around, in your bloodstream or whatever. Then when the magic wears off, the poison is promptly absorbed or metabolized or whatever, and the process of poisoning begins.

If you want to run it differently then that's fine, it's your game. But that's not how I'd run it at my table. The clue is in the name: DELAY Poison.

 

[Yosharian]

As for abusing stuff in pnp we always had a deal that if players abuse shit, DM will use same tricks vs the players. For example if death spells are your main solution to problems expect to be bombarded back with all kinds of spells of similar kind (polymorph other, flesh to stone, slay living, disintegrate and higher ones).

Also I literally just said this

 

[Desiderius]

You don't roll saves vs poison in PnP if duration of delay poison outlasts poison duration. And things like Cloudkill and Stinking Cloud have low durations.

You are incorrect.

I mean, the spell is called Delay Poison, the concept is that it delays the effects of poison. The poison cannot run its course if it is delayed. Poisons are processed in the body by being metabolized or absorbed - no such process can take place if the body is currently immune to poison. You track the different poisons that affected the PC, and the frequency of exposure, then resolve the effects once the spell wears off.

If the PC stands in Cloudkill for 10 rounds, for example, once Delay Poison wears off, the PC must make ten saves back-to-back, to represent all the vapors they inhaled from the spell.

The way I imagine it is that there is magic preventing the poison from being absorbed into the body, or metabolized, so it just hangs around, in your bloodstream or whatever. Then when the magic wears off, the poison is promptly absorbed or metabolized or whatever, and the process of poisoning begins.

If you want to run it differently then that's fine, it's your game. But that's not how I'd run it at my table. The clue is in the name: DELAY Poison.

Yes, this is the way it should originally have been implemented. The way it was implemented obviated all kinds of items/abilities/spells/class features.

If they wanted the timers to run concurrently, it should have worked like Unyielding Heart with Confusion. A long duration prevention effect could be called Resist Poison and up your saves, with a higher level Immunity effect if desired.

Of course if they tried to fix it at this point there would be a mutiny because Poison is a pain it the ass, but exploiting the kludge is cheese.

Conversely if you managed your Kingdom well and were able to gain poison immunity that way or got immunity from being an Alchemist, say, then Cloud away.

It’s not like it’s trivial to beat saves with it (Metamagic feats and the like have an opportunity cost), but persistent effects (Deadly Earth, Sirrocco) may be OP in their own right.

 

[Yosharian]

Poison is a fucking pain in the ass, to be fair. One of the players at my table currently is playing an Eldritch Poisoner, and the hoops we've had to jump through to make his character somewhat-viable... it's ridiculous.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

You don't roll saves vs poison in PnP if duration of delay poison outlasts poison duration. And things like Cloudkill and Stinking Cloud have low durations.

You are incorrect.

I mean, the spell is called Delay Poison, the concept is that it delays the effects of poison. The poison cannot run its course if it is delayed. Poisons are processed in the body by being metabolized or absorbed - no such process can take place if the body is currently immune to poison. You track the different poisons that affected the PC, and the frequency of exposure, then resolve the effects once the spell wears off.

If the PC stands in Cloudkill for 10 rounds, for example, once Delay Poison wears off, the PC must make ten saves back-to-back, to represent all the vapors they inhaled from the spell.

The way I imagine it is that there is magic preventing the poison from being absorbed into the body, or metabolized, so it just hangs around, in your bloodstream or whatever. Then when the magic wears off, the poison is promptly absorbed or metabolized or whatever, and the process of poisoning begins.

If you want to run it differently then that's fine, it's your game. But that's not how I'd run it at my table. The clue is in the name: DELAY Poison.

The RAW are vague with regards to newly applied poisons. Your interpretation is valid(and likely the intended one — but they should have removed the first line of the description), I'd be entirely unsurprised if it's implemented as is simply because that's how they assumed it worked based on a reading of the rules.

Not even Paizo seems to be sure exactly what it does — Here's a description of Stench from the Pathfinder bestiary, my emphasis in bold

Stench (Ex) A creature with the stench special ability secretes an oily chemical that other creatures find offensive. All living creatures (except those with the stench special ability) within 30 feet must succeed at a Fortitude save or be sickened (DC = 10 + 1/2 the racial HD of the creature with stench + that creature’s Constitution modifier; the exact DC is given in the creature’s descriptive text) . The duration of the sickened condition is given in the creature’s descriptive text. Creatures that successfully save cannot be affected by the same creature’s stench for 24 hours. A delay poison or neutralize poison spell removes the effect from the sickened creature. Creatures with immunity to poison are unaffected, and creatures resistant to poison receive their normal bonus on their saving throws.Format: stench (DC 15, 10 rounds); Location: Aura

 

[ArchAngel]

You don't roll saves vs poison in PnP if duration of delay poison outlasts poison duration. And things like Cloudkill and Stinking Cloud have low durations.

You are incorrect.

I mean, the spell is called Delay Poison, the concept is that it delays the effects of poison. The poison cannot run its course if it is delayed. Poisons are processed in the body by being metabolized or absorbed - no such process can take place if the body is currently immune to poison. You track the different poisons that affected the PC, and the frequency of exposure, then resolve the effects once the spell wears off.

If the PC stands in Cloudkill for 10 rounds, for example, once Delay Poison wears off, the PC must make ten saves back-to-back, to represent all the vapors they inhaled from the spell.

The way I imagine it is that there is magic preventing the poison from being absorbed into the body, or metabolized, so it just hangs around, in your bloodstream or whatever. Then when the magic wears off, the poison is promptly absorbed or metabolized or whatever, and the process of poisoning begins.

If you want to run it differently then that's fine, it's your game. But that's not how I'd run it at my table. The clue is in the name: DELAY Poison.

Nah, this is not clear. I originally read someones post about this on reddit where they said Delay Poison works like I said. Now I went and read the spell description online and it does not state you need to roll anything at end of duration. Its description can be interpreted both ways (yours and mine). And by googling a bit more I see there is a lot of confused people and a bunch that also interpret it like me.

 

[ArchAngel]

You don't roll saves vs poison in PnP if duration of delay poison outlasts poison duration. And things like Cloudkill and Stinking Cloud have low durations.

You are incorrect.

I mean, the spell is called Delay Poison, the concept is that it delays the effects of poison. The poison cannot run its course if it is delayed. Poisons are processed in the body by being metabolized or absorbed - no such process can take place if the body is currently immune to poison. You track the different poisons that affected the PC, and the frequency of exposure, then resolve the effects once the spell wears off.

If the PC stands in Cloudkill for 10 rounds, for example, once Delay Poison wears off, the PC must make ten saves back-to-back, to represent all the vapors they inhaled from the spell.

The way I imagine it is that there is magic preventing the poison from being absorbed into the body, or metabolized, so it just hangs around, in your bloodstream or whatever. Then when the magic wears off, the poison is promptly absorbed or metabolized or whatever, and the process of poisoning begins.

If you want to run it differently then that's fine, it's your game. But that's not how I'd run it at my table. The clue is in the name: DELAY Poison.

The RAW are vague with regards to newly applied poisons. Your interpretation is valid(and likely the intended one — but they should have removed the first line of the description), I'd be entirely unsurprised if it's implemented as is simply because that's how they assumed it worked based on a reading of the rules.

Not even Paizo seems to be sure exactly what it does — Here's a description of Stench from the Pathfinder bestiary, my emphasis in bold

Stench (Ex) A creature with the stench special ability secretes an oily chemical that other creatures find offensive. All living creatures (except those with the stench special ability) within 30 feet must succeed at a Fortitude save or be sickened (DC = 10 + 1/2 the racial HD of the creature with stench + that creature’s Constitution modifier; the exact DC is given in the creature’s descriptive text) . The duration of the sickened condition is given in the creature’s descriptive text. Creatures that successfully save cannot be affected by the same creature’s stench for 24 hours. A delay poison or neutralize poison spell removes the effect from the sickened creature. Creatures with immunity to poison are unaffected, and creatures resistant to poison receive their normal bonus on their saving throws.Format: stench (DC 15, 10 rounds); Location: Aura

Paizo just c/p it from 3.5 SRD but made a crucial change. They removed text from Neutralize Poison where it specifically stated that Delay Poison only delays and all saves need to be rolled at end of duration.
One can use that to assume they didn't want Delay Poison to work that way..
3.5

Spoiler

Neutralize Poison
Conjuration (Healing)
Level: Brd 4, Clr 4, Drd 3, Pal 4, Rgr 3
Components: V, S, M/DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature or object of up to 1 cu. ft./level touched
Duration: 10 min./level
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless, object)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless, object)
You detoxify any sort of venom in the creature or object touched. A poisoned creature suffers no additional effects from the poison, and any temporary effects are ended, but the spell does not reverse instantaneous effects, such as hit point damage, temporary ability damage, or effects that don’t go away on their own.

The creature is immune to any poison it is exposed to during the duration of the spell. Unlike with delay poison, such effects aren’t postponed until after the duration —the creature need not make any saves against poison effects applied to it during the length of the spell.

This spell can instead neutralize the poison in a poisonous creature or object for the duration of the spell, at the caster’s option.

Arcane Material Component
A bit of charcoal.

Pathfinder

Spoiler

NEUTRALIZE POISON

School conjuration (healing); Level bard 4, cleric 4, druid 3, paladin 4, ranger 3

Casting Time 1 standard action

Components V, S, M/DF (charcoal)

Range touch

Target creature or object of up to 1 cu. ft./level touched

Duration instantaneous or 10 min./level; see text

Saving Throw Will negates (harmless, object); Spell Resistance yes (harmless, object)

You detoxify any sort of venom in the creature or object touched. If the target is a creature, you must make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) against the DC of each poison affecting the target. Success means that the poison is neutralized. A cured creature suffers no additional effects from the poison, and any temporary effects are ended, but the spell does not reverse instantaneous effects, such as hit point damage, temporary ability damage, or effects that don't go away on their own.

This spell can instead neutralize the poison in a poisonous creature or object for 10 minutes per level, at the caster's option. If cast on a creature, the creature receives a Will save to negate the effect.

 

[polo]

Im about to finish varnhold vanishing chapter, should i finish it or start the DLC now? I've read somewhere people recommending it before VV right after troll trouble.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Im about to finish varnhold vanishing chapter, should i finish it or start the DLC now? I've read somewhere people recommending it before VV right after troll trouble.

start dlc

 

[Risewild]

One can use that to assume they didn't want Delay Poison to work that way..

I'm not so sure about that.

Notice how in Pathfinder they removed that line, but added "Success means that the poison is neutralized. A cured creature suffers no additional effects from the poison, and any temporary effects are ended". They don't say that the poison is neutralized or that the creature is cured or suffers no additional effects from the poison in their Delay Poison description (which would make sense, they added those on the Neutralize poison, they would also add them to the Delay Poison spell, but they didn't).

Which can lead one to assume that it doesn't neutralize the poison if it's effects last longer than the poison. Even the name of the spell "Delay Poison" indicates that the poison effects are delayed, not neutralized. The poison is delayed until the end of the spell duration, then it acts normally.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

I bet in Kangmaker 2, they will redo Delay Poison for extra fun, Owlcat style. It will delay the poison until you exit the game session, then perma-kill everyone affected and wipe the Save file. DnD Putin style.

 

[Trashos]

WTH, Ekun died during his quest and the game ended. It was in the fight after the ritual burning his dead family. I did not realize that Ekun is as important as my character in this game. Well, probably just bad design there, but weird.

 

[Daidre]

Some things never change

Spoiler

Dear pathfinders, we’ve found a problem you should be aware of.

Please, avoid respecing in the last chapter: «The Cursed King/Queen». A respec during this chapter might lead to the eternal unremovable Lantern King curse. If you are already affected by the bug, you can fix it by loading the save prior to the respec.
We are determined to fix the issue as soon as we can. Unfortunately, this may take some time.

 

[Shadenuat]

haha fuck respec weaklings

 

[ArchAngel]

WTH, Ekun died during his quest and the game ended. It was in the fight after the ritual burning his dead family. I did not realize that Ekun is as important as my character in this game. Well, probably just bad design there, but weird.

Probably just a bug. He is not in any way critical to the main campaign.

 

[Pink Eye]

WTH, Ekun died during his quest and the game ended. It was in the fight after the ritual burning his dead family. I did not realize that Ekun is as important as my character in this game. Well, probably just bad design there, but weird.

Strange.

 

[Desiderius]

WTH, Ekun died during his quest and the game ended. It was in the fight after the ritual burning his dead family. I did not realize that Ekun is as important as my character in this game. Well, probably just bad design there, but weird.

What's the point of carrying on after the Magic dies?

 

[ERYFKRAD]

WTH, Ekun died during his quest and the game ended. It was in the fight after the ritual burning his dead family. I did not realize that Ekun is as important as my character in this game. Well, probably just bad design there, but weird.

What's the point of carrying on after the Magic dies?

Barbarians

 

[Trashos]

Who are we calling the "Magic", Ekun? First time I hear of it.

His death was highly taxing to my psyche, but I wanted a chance to find the inner strength and continue my pointless existence.

 

[Desiderius]

Who are we calling the "Magic", Ekun?

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=magical negro