Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
Patron
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
14,833
Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Fey casting Communal Delay Poison on themselves and enemies would deal with this; and also probably make game unbeatable for quite a few folk :lol:

InEffect hardest hit.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
Patron
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
14,833
Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
My comments assume people already have enough sense to bypass the broken shit. You’re letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
Patron
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
14,833
Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
There are better spells. There are better weapons. There are better builds. This is not a flaw. I repeat, NOT a flaw.

No one said anything about a flaw. Well, aside from a few trivializing things like Cloud/Delay. Aside from those, your “better” claim is in your imagination.

Stormbolts isn’t better for two thirds of the game for the simple reason that you don’t have it yet. Once you get it, you’re still not spamming it without spamming rest, and you’ve got to structure your build around it to outdamage the regular attacks from several other builds.

You want to take Ockham’s Chainsaw to the game that’s your business, but you’re missing the point of the design and a lot of alternative approaches that may surpass your own.

Metamagic Stormbolts works great. It’s not the best approach to mastering the content. There isn’t one.
 
Last edited:

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
Patron
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
14,833
Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
There are better spells. There are better weapons. There are better builds. This is not a flaw. I repeat, NOT a flaw.

It's not that they're better, it's that they're better to such a degree that it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to pick their lesser counterparts unless you're doing some sort of a self-imposed gimped challenge run.

We're not talking about min-maxing and squeezing that last 1.2% DPS out of a stone, we're talking about options that utterly invalidate many other options which the game presents to you as more-or-less equal.

They let in a few stragglers.

The original argument was that Sorcs were fine because only a few spells matter anyway, and that’s the way CRPGs are.

This one isn’t, with one obvious exception and two or three others that I won’t bother contesting, but that aren’t as cut and dried as it seems.

I’m blowing out Unfair with my main offensive caster being a Bard. Sure doesn’t feel utterly invalidated. Feels like less work than getting all my nuking ducks in a row.
 

Lambach

Arcane
Possibly Retarded
Joined
Feb 11, 2016
Messages
13,206
Location
Belgrade, Removekebabland
My comments assume people already have enough sense to bypass the broken shit.

But why would I bypass the broken shit? It's there in the game and I can use it without it being official "cheating", like exploiting bugs or abusing utterly unintended aspects of gameplay.

And again, I'm not saying this is a particularly bad thing, because literally every at-least-decent RPG ever released has its share of broken shit. I'm just saying it's pretty disingenuous to pretend that Kingmaker doesn't have those problems or that, just because it's Kingmaker, it's somehow justified because "MUH BRILLIANT GAME DESIGN" (in which enemy spellcasters can't even figure out the most basic counters to the shit your party is casting).
 
Last edited:

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
Patron
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
14,833
Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
My comments assume people already have enough sense to bypass the broken shit.

But why would I bypass the broken shit? It's there in the game and I can use it without it being official "cheating", like exploiting bugs or abusing utterly unintended aspects of gameplay.

And again, I'm not saying this is a particularly bad thing, because literally every at-least-decent RPG ever released has its share of broken shit. I'm just saying it's pretty disingenuous to pretend that Kingmaker doesn't have those problems or that, just because it's Kingmaker, it's somehow justified because "MUH BRILLIANT GAME DESIGN" (in which enemy spellcasters can't even figure out the most basic counters to the shit your party is casting).

Because spamming broken shit isn’t fun.

I’m not pretending P:K doesn’t have problems.

I said that it is multidimensional. In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. In that sense it’s great in that we finally have some designers who seem to get why that’s important. They made Blindfight and Athletics matter, for God’s sake. They deserve credit for that.

The point isn’t that it lacks broken shit, although it has less than other games, it’s that most (not quite all, you’re correct) spells/classes/feats/abilities people think of as strictly best aren’t in fact, but depend on the foe you’re facing and your role in the party.

That’s good game design and should be noted as such and powergamers who like to rain on parades with their reductionist pwnage should understand that there’s finally a game where they’re not even technically correct.
 
Last edited:

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
Patron
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
14,833
Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Fey casting Communal Delay Poison on themselves and enemies would deal with this; and also probably make game unbeatable for quite a few folk :lol:

That would be great. Also invisibility/greater invisibility. Do I recall correctly or wild hunt monarch is the only enemy casting dispel magic in the whole game?

Dweomercats.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
Patron
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
14,833
Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
I see nothing wrong in countering bullshit (House onwards) with bullshit.

It's close. Not easy making Epic D&D anything other than a faceroll. They shot their shot. Hope they get it better next time.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
Patron
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
14,833
Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Ha ha, suckaz!

TristianPureSkill.jpg

Pure, unadulterated skill.
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
21,259
grease is the best spell in the game because its also humiliating to die because of slipping on grease
I don't know. Yesterday I did the battle vs the Necro in Vordekai's dungeon and him and most of his zombies died by falling into a pit and being eaten by acid. For a powerful wizard I would find that more embarrassing, especially when in PnP a simple Fly or Dimension Door would solve that problem :D
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
21,259
My comments assume people already have enough sense to bypass the broken shit.

But why would I bypass the broken shit? It's there in the game and I can use it without it being official "cheating", like exploiting bugs or abusing utterly unintended aspects of gameplay.

And again, I'm not saying this is a particularly bad thing, because literally every at-least-decent RPG ever released has its share of broken shit. I'm just saying it's pretty disingenuous to pretend that Kingmaker doesn't have those problems or that, just because it's Kingmaker, it's somehow justified because "MUH BRILLIANT GAME DESIGN" (in which enemy spellcasters can't even figure out the most basic counters to the shit your party is casting).

Because spamming broken shit isn’t fun.

I’m not pretending P:K doesn’t have problems.

I said that it is multidimensional. In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. In that sense it’s great in that we finally have some designers who seem to get why that’s important. They made Blindfight and Athletics matter, for God’s sake. They deserve credit for that.

The point isn’t that it lacks broken shit, although it has less than other games, it’s that most (not quite all, you’re correct) spells/classes/feats/abilities people think of as strictly best aren’t in fact, but depend on the foe you’re facing and your role in the party.

That’s good game design and should be noted as such and powergamers who like to rain on parades with their reductionist pwnage should understand that there’s finally a game where they’re not even technically correct.
It is fun for one run but doing it every run does get old fast.
Like how in UFO 1994 you could use Blaster Bombs to clear all maps of aliens once you got it and it removed all challenge from the game and it was fun for a short while.
 
Last edited:

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
Patron
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
14,833
Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
grease is the best spell in the game because its also humiliating to die because of slipping on grease
I don't know. Yesterday I did the battle vs the Necro in Vordekai's dungeon and him and most of his zombies died by falling into a pit and being eaten by acid. For a powerful wizard I would find that more embarrassing, especially when in PnP a simple Fly or Dimension Door would solve that problem :D

Yeah, Farrinas fell into a Hungry Pit after he offed my MC and I sat through 20 rounds of suffering through not casting Acid Pit instead. He and Amiri ended up duking it out Mano a Mano, so that was epic.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
Patron
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
14,833
Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
grease is the best spell in the game because its also humiliating to die because of slipping on grease
I don't know. Yesterday I did the battle vs the Necro in Vordekai's dungeon and him and most of his zombies died by falling into a pit and being eaten by acid. For a powerful wizard I would find that more embarrassing, especially when in PnP a simple Fly or Dimension Door would solve that problem :D

Yeah, Farrinas fell into a Hungry Pit after he offed my MC and I sat through 20 rounds of suffering through not casting Acid Pit instead. He and Amiri ended up duking it out Mano a Mano, so that was epic.

Key said -1 charges lol.
 

Daidre

Arcane
Joined
Jan 30, 2019
Messages
2,003
Location
Samara
Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
Does anyone know just how much you can stack DR/- on an Invulerable Rager? 10 from class, 3 from barb talents, 3 from armor? Or is there more?
Afaik "Increased Damage Reduction" Rage power is 2/- available three times for 6/- + 10/- from class.
Also, beside Adamantine heavy armor there are sheild with 2/- and ring for another 2/- from Wim (Jewelcrafter). Everything stacks so by my estimate it is around 20-25.
 

Trashos

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
3,413
OK, time for some more criticism (maybe). I don't get the weapon progression in the game. Other than 2-3 types of weapon (eg, dueling swords), the rest don't seem to follow a satisfactory curve of progression.

I did some reading and realize that weapon focus is not a big thing in Kingmaker, and it should probably be delayed until characters have their endgame weapons. it is also potentially useful for specific abilities (dazzling display) and feats, but it would have been nice to have a smoother progression to support this.

Another example: I have a dex-based Vivisectionist dual wielder, so naturally I look for agile weapons to get the most out of my build. But the agile property seems to be kinda randomly distributed in various types of weapons, not certain types that I can specialize in.

So it generally looks like specialization is more of an afterthought or for very specific builds. I find this kind of disappointing, it lessens the personality of builds. At the same time, there are two early companions who specialize in the same weapon for some reason (bastard swords). The whole thing does not seem very well thought out.
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
21,259
OK, time for some more criticism (maybe). I don't get the weapon progression in the game. Other than 2-3 types of weapon (eg, dueling swords), the rest don't seem to follow a satisfactory curve of progression.

I did some reading and realize that weapon focus is not a big thing in Kingmaker, and it should probably be delayed until characters have their endgame weapons. it is also potentially useful for specific abilities (dazzling display) and feats, but it would have been nice to have a smoother progression to support this.

Another example: I have a dex-based Vivisectionist dual wielder, so naturally I look for agile weapons to get the most out of my build. But the agile property seems to be kinda randomly distributed in various types of weapons, not certain types that I can specialize in.

So it generally looks like specialization is more of an afterthought or for very specific builds. I find this kind of disappointing, it lessens the personality of builds. At the same time, there are two early companions who specialize in the same weapon for some reason (bastard swords). The whole thing does not seem very well thought out.
This is why the crafting mod exists. And why in PnP players also like to craft their gear.
 

Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,977
Location
Russia
If a creature has damage reduction from more than one source, the two forms of damage reduction do not stack. Instead, the creature gets the benefit of the best damage reduction in a given situation.

So DR5/magic and DR2/magic don't turn into DR7/magic

Even similar dr shouldn't stack.
Barbs of course stacks since it's his unique thing.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom