Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Shadenuat]

However, in contradiction of my earlier points, I have been using A pet in a 5 man party for the DLC dungeon

Having one good pet with synergistic class (like Mad Dog, Inq, Ranger or Druid) is alright; any more is buff degeneracy galore and if they're not at their full potential it's army of one-shots and then rest spam degeneracy.

But you see, some people can't beat Ch1 encounters with full party of vivi-dips.

Not everyone is a save scum master like you

If you play for first time you will re-load anyway (and re-roll because you picked bad spells for Sorc); if not - you are prepared; and regardless of it, if you are going through 20th spider, you know that Sleep might be not best option.

 

[Lambach]

I just don't understand Sorcerer players. It has advantages in PnP but in CRPG higher level spells early and ability to change spells is simply unbeatable at ability to solve any encounter or multiple of them.

I think it's quite the opposite. In PnP you want to have every spell available to you because most of them are actually useful and PnP offers infinitely more freedom on how to use them. On the other hand, there's only a handful of spells on each level that are actually useful in pretty much any D&D-based CRPG I can think of. You'd naturally want to be able to cast more of them per rest and you want to be sure you can always cast them.

Also, a Sorc is a lot more flexible when it comes to Metamagic.

 

[Shadenuat]

Full Round (extra round?) Metamagic is not great. At all. I used it on AT/Sorc.

Rods are honestly simply superior.

Well it's better in RTwP opening salvo. But really meh in TB mod.

On the other hand, there's only a handful of spells on each level that are actually useful

If you think like that, nothing is stopping you just using 3 spells as Wizard either. Or 40 same ones, heightened through levels. With advantage of always being level above/AT.

Basically vancian never troubled me as much as leveling, getting 1 spell lol, while Thassilonian already at same time would run with 3-4 spells of different kind.

 

[Daidre]

Come now. The Sorcerer can fine tune the usage of this specific spellbook. The Wizard can once a day use his bonded item to activate a very esoteric spell that is rarely useful. Or one more casting of his favorite. Its not really the same thing.

Bonded Item could be used to restore spell you just edited into spellbook so it is free access to some super-rare situational spells you'd never slot for normal adventuring. But I use it on cleric more often than on wizards.

My current flavor of the month in the realm of arcane casters is modded Arcanist. Amazing and pretty stable mod and cool class with spontaneous casting, wizard's spell scribbling and some interesting tricks through arcanist's exploits.

 

[Shadenuat]

My current flavor of the month in the realm of arcane casters is modded Arcanist

Isn't that op pnp imba?

 

[Pink Eye]

Full Round (extra round?) Metamagic is not great. At all. I used it on AT/Sorc.

Rods are honestly simply superior.

Well it's better in RTwP opening salvo. But really meh in TB mod.

On the other hand, there's only a handful of spells on each level that are actually useful

If you think like that, nothing is stopping you just using 3 spells as Wizard either. Or 40 same ones, heightened through levels. With advantage of always being level above/AT.

You can modify your spells in the spell book. Unlike rods, you can modify a spell to have more than one meta magic feat.

 

[Daidre]

Isn't that op pnp imba?

It is fun! And does not mix well with AT.

 

[Lambach]

Rods are honestly simply superior.

Yeah, but IIRC you can't apply two Rods to the same spell, so you have to rely on Metamagic for that sweet Empowered + Maximized combo. The OP Rod of Raping Everything can do both, but you only have 3 uses of that.

If you think like that, nothing is stopping you just using 3 spells as Wizard either.

Nothing is stopping me, but I can do it more often per rest as a Sorc, which is very nice in a game with the amount of combat Kingmaker has.

 

[Desiderius]

I just don't understand Sorcerer players. It has advantages in PnP but in CRPG higher level spells early and ability to change spells is simply unbeatable at ability to solve any encounter or multiple of them.

Sorcerers (spontaneous casters in general) have more flexibility within their smaller pool of spells. You can also get the best of both worlds with Theurge, but with testing I’ve cooled on that since it hurts Caster Level which comes into play in a variety of ways.

 

[Pink Eye]

If they ever make Pathfinder 2, they need to make it harder. I need Unfair + Leveling scaling + Over bloated stats + mandatory iron man + better AI + Enemy Prebuffing.

 

[Shadenuat]

Design smarter not harder.

 

[Desiderius]

On the other hand, there's only a handful of spells on each level that are actually useful in pretty much any D&D-based CRPG I can think of.

You’ve finally found one where that’s not the case, and that goes for skills, abilities, classes, and feats as well. It appears to have been the principal focus of the designers.

It is what makes it such a great game.

 

[Desiderius]

Design smarter not harder.

Enemy prebuff/ Bard/ Freebooter/ Archon’s would be enough.

 

[ga♥]

I am playing Varnhold's lot outside the main campagin (It should pop up inside the main campagin right?). Does this mean I won't be able to import choices inside my main?

pl0x reply.

 

[Lambach]

You’ve finally found one where that’s not the case

Nope, a lot of spells here are simply redundant. On their own they might not be completely terrible, but they're outclassed by spells from both equal or lower level to the point where you have to wonder why they're in the game in the first place.

Can you honestly tell me there's a single encounter in the game where either Firebrand, Elemental Body IV, Resonating Word, Ki Shout, Waves of Ecstasy, Umbral Strike etc. would be a better use for a spell slot rather than, say, a Heightened Sirocco? And I picked lvl 7 spells at random, you can make a similar comparison for every level.

 

[ga♥]

Spells/magic/enemy_usage_of_magic is the weak spot of the game, but it is well known already.

 

[ArchAngel]

You’ve finally found one where that’s not the case

Nope, a lot of spells here are simply redundant. On their own they might not be completely terrible, but they're outclassed by spells from both equal or lower level to the point where you have to wonder why they're in the game in the first place.

Can you honestly tell me there's a single encounter in the game where either Firebrand, Elemental Body IV, Resonating Word, Ki Shout, Waves of Ecstasy, Umbral Strike etc. would be a better use for a spell slot rather than, say, a Heightened Sirocco? And I picked lvl 7 spells at random, you can make a similar comparison for every level.

Firebrand lasts multiple battles and does not block your party progressing to the next group. Elemental Body might be useful for some solo play or some gish builds. Waves usually don't have a save. Ki Shout stuns and only a few enemies are immune to stun in this game (all undead should be but they are not in this game). Sirocco does fire damage and some enemies are very resistant or immune to it. And in PnP it does not really work vs flying enemies but those don't really exist in this game.

 

[Shadenuat]

Umbral Strike is actually p dope on AT/Necro. Negative+Cold + blind + ignores concealment.
And sound spells are always good due to enemies generally having no resists to them.

 

[Pink Eye]

Design smarter not harder.

Naaah. I want to get my ass kicked on the harder difficulties. Unfair just isn't hard, once you understand the game. If that isn't your cup of tea, you can always lower the difficulty.
Still, the DLC dungeon has been giving me a run for my money. So not all is hopeless.

 

[Shadenuat]

DLC dungeon does this because it is designed smarter. It uses lower level gameplay, no OP loot and greater variation of enemies including those you just can't overlevel. And that's not counting what it does in the end.

 

[Pink Eye]

DLC dungeon does this because it is designed smarter. It uses lower level gameplay, no OP loot and greater variation of enemies including those you just can't overlevel.

Hmm. You got a point mister boss man. Perhaps I am conflating the two. Ah well, I still stand by what I said earlier.

 

[Desiderius]

You’ve finally found one where that’s not the case

Nope, a lot of spells here are simply redundant. On their own they might not be completely terrible, but they're outclassed by spells from both equal or lower level to the point where you have to wonder why they're in the game in the first place.

Can you honestly tell me there's a single encounter in the game where either Firebrand, Elemental Body IV, Resonating Word, Ki Shout, Waves of Ecstasy, Umbral Strike etc. would be a better use for a spell slot rather than, say, a Heightened Sirocco? And I picked lvl 7 spells at random, you can make a similar comparison for every level.

Yes. I’ve replaced Resonating with Ki Shout on my Bard as things now die too fast for Resonating to get its full use. Both are outstanding anti-caster measures for a party focusing on melee/ranged damage. Sonic Stuns trigger two tough saves. Likewise Waves is guaranteed AoE Stagger (mass Frigid Touch) at worst.

Sirocco is of course solid to busted depending on how you use it but accidentally Fatiguing my own team is bad news without a Pal or Community domain. Just not my thing.

I think I had Octavia casting LP/Insanity/Ki in those slots.

 

[Lambach]

Firebrand lasts multiple battles and does not block your party progressing to the next group.

I suppose it depends on how autistic you are in gathering every shred of XP you can. If you're on the far-end of the spectrum like me, you'll advance from 13/14-15/16 very quickly, and at that point, you'll be using Stormbolts to deal massive AoE damage and not harm your party, rather than any fire-based spells.

Elemental Body might be useful for some solo play or some gish builds.

Nope, for highly spec'd and well-equipped characters, Elemental Body will actually wreck your stats pretty hard.

Waves usually don't have a save.

Ki Shout stuns and only a few enemies are immune to stun in this game

This is extremely pathetic for a 7th level spell when a 3rd level spells does a much better job and has AoE (Stinking Cloud).

I will grant that these are failures of the "Josh Sawyer unsuccessfully redesigns D&D 3.5" source material rather than Kingmaker itself, but still.

 

[Desiderius]

Firebrand lasts multiple battles and does not block your party progressing to the next group.

I suppose it depends on how autistic you are in gathering every shred of XP you can. If you're on the far-end of the spectrum like me, you'll advance from 13/14-15/16 very quickly, and at that point, you'll be using Stormbolts to deal massive AoE damage and not harm your party, rather than any fire-based spells.

Elemental Body might be useful for some solo play or some gish builds.

Nope, for highly spec'd and well-equipped characters, Elemental Body will actually wreck your stats pretty hard.

Waves usually don't have a save.

Ki Shout stuns and only a few enemies are immune to stun in this game

This is extremely pathetic for a 7th level spell when a 3rd level spells does a much better job and has AoE (Stinking Cloud).

I will grant that these are failures of the "Josh Sawyer unsuccessfully redesigns D&D 3.5" source material rather than Kingmaker itself, but still.

No save Stagger, like the man said. Yeah, it takes a single target casting heightened Sirocco on the mobs to take them all out. Try getting it off through a Ki Shout.

Don’t even try to min-max this game, brother. Can’t be done, too many dimensions.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

DLC dungeon does this because it is designed smarter. It uses lower level gameplay, no OP loot and greater variation of enemies including those you just can't overlevel. And that's not counting what it does in the end.

DLC dungeon is a masterpiece compared to house at the edge of time