Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Desiderius]

Well, if you want a fun MT, best bet probably modding in his PnP ability to dual cast.

Ideally, MT should behave like Aerie from BG2, who was tricky, but a total powerhouse when used correctly (like loading cleric spells into sequencers).
Technically, just having said sequencers in the game would already make MT interesting.

If you want a MT (which btw, before when you could only reach liv 18, sucked hard, now I have no idea) just make a merc? How does being a MT works with his story? What's even the point? It's like people making Valerie a bard. Wtf?

Unless you are a closet faggot like Desiderius, and what you really like is something else.

Er, ok, Mr. gayheart. Scion MT works with say Gold Dragon Bloodline that gives his Fire spells an extra point per die to go with his other Fire abilities or of course Empyreal also fits. MT gets a million casts but lower caster lvl hurts Spell Pen.

Hate to break it to you, but Val is intended as a Bard. Her Companion quest gives her CHR and Oppressor Bastard fits perfectly. Casting with Tower + Image = OP.

 

[Yosharian]

I decided I'm just gonna straight up give Amiri 17 Wis (and dump her Charisma, nobody likes this bitch) and make her into a Druid.

Considering her shitty point buy and the fact she has two fucking useless feats, that's a small thing, IMO.

I’ve played her as DofTW unmodded and she does great. If you think that Bastard prof is a useless feat you’ve got no business writing a guide for anybody*. And of course Barb 2 for Speed, UD, and extra bite fits Wild Shape Druid like a glove.

* - Ovrinbaane spellbook itself is more than worth it.

1) I have already stated many, many times that I'm not writing a GUIDE. I'm writing BUILDS. For ME. I only share them in case others are interested. I don't give a flying fuck for your approval or anyone else's.
2) It's useless because nobody in their right minds puts a fucking Barbarian into close melee range, they'll just get murdered. Yes, yes, Enlarge Person, blah blah blah. My tanks are already using LP, so that doesn't help. Ovinrbaane, if it gets used, goes to someone who can actually sit in melee and not get instantly popped into red goo.
3) Not to mention the fact that my comment was mostly aimed at the context in which the feats are taken, rather than to criticise the actual strategy of using Ovinrbaane. You don't take Bastard Sword proficiency at level one, approximately 12 levels before you get access to that weapon. That's just fucking retarded, even if you do plan to attempt to make a melee build out of her that uses that weapon.
4) Ovinrbaane isn't even fucking working properly! It's supposed to turn your character into a backstabbing psychopath after a few days. What a joke.

 

[Sykar]

There's a mod that adds sequencers/contingency

Contingency I got from Eldritch Arcana. Which mod offers sequencers?

 

[John Keel]

Call of the wild I think

 

[Shadenuat]

What would be the point to add them to NPCs anyway with you RTWP homos alphastriking any threats round 1, what the AI needs is pre-buffs more than anything else, and proper builds

You think it's harder to alpha strike in TB? I can prove you wrong with one picture.

 

[Sykar]

I decided I'm just gonna straight up give Amiri 17 Wis (and dump her Charisma, nobody likes this bitch) and make her into a Druid.

Considering her shitty point buy and the fact she has two fucking useless feats, that's a small thing, IMO.

I’ve played her as DofTW unmodded and she does great. If you think that Bastard prof is a useless feat you’ve got no business writing a guide for anybody*. And of course Barb 2 for Speed, UD, and extra bite fits Wild Shape Druid like a glove.

* - Ovrinbaane spellbook itself is more than worth it.

1) I have already stated many, many times that I'm not writing a GUIDE. I'm writing BUILDS. For ME. I only share them in case others are interested. I don't give a flying fuck for your approval or anyone else's.
2) It's useless because nobody in their right minds puts a fucking Barbarian into close melee range, they'll just get murdered. Yes, yes, Enlarge Person, blah blah blah. My tanks are already using LP, so that doesn't help. Ovinrbaane, if it gets used, goes to someone who can actually sit in melee and not get instantly popped into red goo.

Barbarians greatest strength is acting as a skirmisher going after preferably isolated squishies charging all over the battlefield. If you are not above using mods, getting EA, CotW, etc. makes her into an Invulnerable Rager with 19 strength and access to Superstition and Witch Hunter. With that she makes mince meat out of casters easily and thanks to decent DR and high HP archers are not much of a challenge either. Bind dangerous melees to the tank, go around the main pulk and start murdering squishies. That works even with Amiri from the base game.

Call of the wild I think

Nope, sorry got that one.

 

[Yosharian]

That's not healing, that's an emergency reset in case shit goes terribly wrong.

He's talking about wasting feats + helm slot on some shitty pbaoe heal.

The damage mitigation/absorption is wayyyyy better than healing as a rule in DnD/PF, and if you have some spontaneous caster it's very hard to get caught off-guard by AOE with the multiples communals.

Btw @ Mystic Theurge, imo it's far from a newbtrap.
I don't remember exactly the details as I erased my BTSL save by mistake while testing a mod, but iirc it was some Cle/Sor/MT/MK and it was fucking insane (on unfair).
Granted the DCs of offensives spells sucked (I dont care I never use them), but he was kungfu fighting left and right buffed to high heaven, shit's was cray

More details plx, I haven't looked at Tristian's build yet

 

[John Keel]

What would be the point to add them to NPCs anyway with you RTWP homos alphastriking any threats round 1, what the AI needs is pre-buffs more than anything else, and proper builds

You think it's harder to alpha strike in TB? I can prove you wrong with one picture.

Yes, it's definitely harder except by cheesing with kine or somesuch

 

[Desiderius]

What a joke.

Don’t sell yourself short, Yosh, you make a lot of good points to go with your bad ones. The idea that Amiri can’t survive in melee without a mod though is... based on an incomplete exploration of options available to you.

As for Bastards, there are a lot of good ones. I had her using Oppressor for a few levels after she picked up Dreadful Carnage at lvl 11. As for getting it early, if you’re not using Combat Style you have to to get Shatter on time.

 

[Desiderius]

What would be the point to add them to NPCs anyway with you RTWP homos alphastriking any threats round 1, what the AI needs is pre-buffs more than anything else, and proper builds

You think it's harder to alpha strike in TB? I can prove you wrong with one picture.

Yes, it's definitely harder except by cheesing with kine or somesuch

Not if you’ve got good Initiative (which you should, same on RTwP).

 

[Yosharian]

Even more hilarious how you rail on this while promoting bard of all classes for Valerie, one of the most retarded choices in terms of rpg you can make for her considering how much she loathes art and bard is all about art but hey who cares about such things if you can munchkin to the wazoo because Unfair/Derp difficulty is the only difficulty in existence even if the choices are completely and utterly immersion breaking.
Overall complete overreaction and I doubt you have really read what their new classes entail, just looked at raw stats.

Here is the LN (Val's alignment) resolution to Linzi's companion quest:

View attachment 11863

So fuck right off.

Wait what. In what way does Valerie's alignment dictate how she feels about art. You're way off here dude. Her outlook on art has nothing to do with her alignment, it's a personality trait.

 

[John Keel]

What would be the point to add them to NPCs anyway with you RTWP homos alphastriking any threats round 1, what the AI needs is pre-buffs more than anything else, and proper builds

You think it's harder to alpha strike in TB? I can prove you wrong with one picture.

Yes, it's definitely harder except by cheesing with kine or somesuch

Not if you’ve got good Initiative (which you should, same on RTwP).

You don't have full action 1st round, way harder to alpha strike

 

[Yosharian]

a 101 guide on how to use Tristian:
get channeling feats
get hat that improves channeling
heal people with channeling

You've forgotten Touch of Good

Healing is a perfectly fine strategy but I prefer to have builds which can deal solid physical damage for extended periods, and only use limited resources (like heals or nukes) in tougher fights. That's just my preference, I dislike resting repeatedly so I try to minimize that as much as possible.

 

[Yosharian]

Well, if you want a fun MT, best bet probably modding in his PnP ability to dual cast.

Ideally, MT should behave like Aerie from BG2, who was tricky, but a total powerhouse when used correctly (like loading cleric spells into sequencers).
Technically, just having said sequencers in the game would already make MT interesting.

Yes I noticed the lack of dual-casting as well, what the fuck is that all about.

 

[Desiderius]

You don't have full action 1st round, way harder to alpha strike

I don’t use many full actions anyway. Can you Pounce? You sure you’re not talking about surprise round? Initiative let’s you surprise then go first in the next round.

 

[Desiderius]

Wait what. In what way does Valerie's alignment dictate how she feels about art. You're way off here dude. Her outlook on art has nothing to do with her alignment, it's a personality trait.

Alignment is a function of personality. One can be a great Bard without having much of an appreciation for art (cf. Joey Ramone). The game expresses one way (an LN way, so one which would likely fit Val) of being such a Bard. Hardass truthteller. All you cynical assholes should eat that shit right up.

 

[Yosharian]

Barbarians greatest strength is acting as a skirmisher going after preferably isolated squishies charging all over the battlefield. If you are not above using mods, getting EA, CotW, etc. makes her into an Invulnerable Rager with 19 strength and access to Superstition and Witch Hunter. With that she makes mince meat out of casters easily and thanks to decent DR and high HP archers are not much of a challenge either. Bind dangerous melees to the tank, go around the main pulk and start murdering squishies. That works even with Amiri from the base game.

Yeah but I have two very decent archers that are perfectly capable of murdering them from behind my front line, I don't need to expose a melee character in this way. It's a suboptimal strategy given my party setup.

Additionally, I already have a very capable melee character who is basically immune to damage and has such high saves that he walks through spells, poison, and so on unscathed, so if necessary he can go kill such targets himself, while drawing lots of attention that way at the same time (which is his job).

Invulnerable Rager would help but it wouldn't prevent her durability being a limited resource (tanking by HP) as opposed to an efficient, long-lasting resource (tanking by high AC).

 

[John Keel]

What would be the point to add them to NPCs anyway with you RTWP homos alphastriking any threats round 1, what the AI needs is pre-buffs more than anything else, and proper builds

You think it's harder to alpha strike in TB? I can prove you wrong with one picture.

Yes, it's definitely harder except by cheesing with kine or somesuch

Not if you’ve got good Initiative (which you should, same on RTwP).

You don't have full action 1st round, way harder to alpha strike

I don’t use many full actions anyway. Can you Pounce? You sure you’re not talking about surprise round? Initiative let’s you surprise then go first in the next round.

I meant surprise is round 1, or 0 if you're ANAL but I didnt want to confuse the tardos around here. You can charge but not regular distance.
Initiative isnt what decide who act in surprise round, it's sighted/spotted/hidden/engaging chars, the init act normal for surprise round order( iirc)

 

[Shadenuat]

So I can cast 2 spells first?

RTwP homo-me is now kinda jelly of PnP master race

 

[John Keel]

So I can cast 2 spells first?

RTwP homo-me is now kinda jelly of PnP master race

On 2 char? Sure

 

[John Keel]

And just to be clear, I said it was HARDER, not hard.

 

[Shadenuat]

Yeah, because arguing over power of alpha strikes in Pathfinder is kinda crazy to begin with.

So I can cast 2 spells first?

RTwP homo-me is now kinda jelly of PnP master race

On 2 char? Sure

on 1 char, since I get 1 standard action per surprise, and then I can win INI during "real" combat round.


I imagine there is much arguing about who is surprised or not between DM and player in these games

also is kinda funny you argue this, since main argument for TB mod on Steam wars was always that "it makes magic useful/makes using it easier".

 

[John Keel]

Yeah, because arguing over power of alpha strikes in Pathfinder is kinda crazy to begin with.

So I can cast 2 spells first?

RTwP homo-me is now kinda jelly of PnP master race

On 2 char? Sure

on 1 char, since I get 1 standard action per surprise, and then I can win INI during "real" combat round.


I imagine there is much arguing about who is surprised or not between DM and player in these games

Yeah sure if you place high in init for round 1. Can only cast as a standard action round 0 tho, with only 5ft step.

The 'arguing' is asking for contingency within RTWP, it's fucking retarded

 

[Shadenuat]

I don't see how. Explain with more than 1 sentence, without using words "fuck retarded faggot".

 

[gestalt11]

A properly built Mystic Theurge is very strong, you can get a ton of extra spells and diversity and only lose a few high level spells. I can't remember the details of a solo build i had specced out and played a bit but I think was something like Sylvan Sorc/feyspekaer druid and mystic theurge with +pet level talents which gives you a ton of spell up to level 7/8 and a really beefy powerful pet (like one rank below max) you can buff up to tank a lot of stuff with like 60 or so AC and it does shit tons of damage. You can cast Sirocco from two different classes and essentially and both classes use charisma so you can get a lot extra spell casts and your stat focus still allows for high DCs feyspeaker also gives some rather useful low level illusion spells.

In reality you could make an entire party of these guys have a stupid OP party. Tristian can't quite do this though. But eccTheurge + empyreal sorc + mystic theurge (i.e 14/16 for 7th/8th level sorc/cleric spells) can stat focus to wisdom for good DCs and still gets sirrocco and Heal etc. The extra versatility and access to certain key spells can definitely be worth losing out on 9th level spells many of the best spells are sub 9th. The main issue though is getting key spells a couple levels later, but even so just the fact that you can give him access to Sirocco and certain arcane buffs can be worth that.