Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Sykar]

Barbarians greatest strength is acting as a skirmisher going after preferably isolated squishies charging all over the battlefield. If you are not above using mods, getting EA, CotW, etc. makes her into an Invulnerable Rager with 19 strength and access to Superstition and Witch Hunter. With that she makes mince meat out of casters easily and thanks to decent DR and high HP archers are not much of a challenge either. Bind dangerous melees to the tank, go around the main pulk and start murdering squishies. That works even with Amiri from the base game.

Yeah but I have two very decent archers that are perfectly capable of murdering them from behind my front line, I don't need to expose a melee character in this way. It's a suboptimal strategy given my party setup.

Additionally, I already have a very capable melee character who is basically immune to damage and has such high saves that he walks through spells, poison, and so on unscathed, so if necessary he can go kill such targets himself, while drawing lots of attention that way at the same time (which is his job).

Invulnerable Rager would help but it wouldn't prevent her durability being a limited resource (tanking by HP) as opposed to an efficient, long-lasting resource (tanking by high AC).

She can work as a tank with Guarded Stance then get 1 point in dex for Dodge, and improve her defenses through Toughness, 6 more DR from rage powers, Protect Vitals, 3 Mobility for +1 AC from fighting defensively, Shield and Armor focus, use a normal bastard sword and shield switching to her big one when she gets no attention or when on clean up duty. Get her the best medium armor and any item to giver her enough dex for the armor she wears, buff with Cats's Grace if necessary.

 

[Desiderius]

Initiative isnt what decide who act in surprise round, it's sighted/spotted/hidden/engaging chars, the init act normal for surprise round order( iirc)

I know. How is RTwP different?

 

[Shadenuat]

A properly built Mystic Theurge is very strong, you can get a ton of extra spells and diversity and only lose a few high level spells. I can't remember the details of a solo build i had specced out and played a bit but I think was something like Sylvan Sorc/feyspekaer druid

I tried that char.
I mean, if you just want to cast Sirocco and have a pet, single class Druid does it with more DC and earlier. And then how many degenerate siroccos you really need? Considering Druid also has stuff like Obsidian flow etc.

 

[John Keel]

Initiative isnt what decide who act in surprise round, it's sighted/spotted/hidden/engaging chars, the init act normal for surprise round order( iirc)

I know. How is RTwP different?

You dont get to pause, select all -> focus fire 1 single target out of combat to start one in TB.
Nor pull + kite or BS of this kind

 

[Shadenuat]

Neither can enemies suddenly act out of sequence and focus fire something. In RTwP they actually can (and do so very often, cue Tristian dying screams from Wild Hunt deffarrowz).

Nor pull + kite or BS of this kind

Pulling enemies behind some corner/into CC one by one as they go by initiative and killing them with whole party is more or less tried and true tactic in TB games.

 

[Haplo]

A properly built Mystic Theurge is very strong, you can get a ton of extra spells and diversity and only lose a few high level spells. I can't remember the details of a solo build i had specced out and played a bit but I think was something like Sylvan Sorc/feyspekaer druid

I tried that char.
I mean, if you just want to cast Sirocco and have a pet, single class Druid does it with more DC and earlier. And then how many degenerate siroccos you really need? Considering Druid also has stuff like Obsidian flow etc.

Yeah, I almost never use Sirocco. Similar deal as Deadly Earth. Party unfriendly dominant tactics.

 

[Haplo]

Careful Haplo. Don't you want to keep your pro gamerz status?

Meh. I love me my boi's Tristan's Touch of Good. Lets me pass all skillchecks in the game with flying colors... even Persuasion with dumped Cha.
Can also actually help in combat.

 

[Shadenuat]

She can work as a tank with Guarded Stance then get 1 point in dex for Dodge, and improve her defenses through Toughness, 6 more DR from rage powers, Protect Vitals, 3 Mobility for +1 AC from fighting defensively, Shield and Armor focus, use a normal bastard sword and shield switching to her big one when she gets no attention or when on clean up duty. Get her the best medium armor and any item to giver her enough dex for the armor she wears, buff with Cats's Grace if necessary.

Considering most of your AC in this game comes from items, and only few characters can get alternative AC growth, I don't see it being hard to make barb tank, yeah.

Amiri is also not the dumbest girl in the flock with 10 12 10 if I remember right. With any +4 item to casting stat she can easily multi into something with mirrorz.

 

[John Keel]

Neither can enemies suddenly act out of sequence and focus fire something. In RTwP they actually can (and do so very often, cue Tristian dying screams from Wild Hunt deffarrowz).

Nor pull + kite or BS of this kind

Pulling enemies behind some corner/into CC one by one as they go by initiative and killing them with whole party is more or less tried and true tactic in TB games.

The whole thing is about Alpha striking an ennemy before the fight start, damn you're dense

 

[Shadenuat]

Well there you're going a bit in territory of not allowing casting spells out of combat fren, which means we might let out V1iktor on you who will maul you to death. With pictures from modded Diablo 1 or something.

 

[Yosharian]

She can work as a tank with Guarded Stance then get 1 point in dex for Dodge, and improve her defenses through Toughness, 6 more DR from rage powers, Protect Vitals, 3 Mobility for +1 AC from fighting defensively, Shield and Armor focus, use a normal bastard sword and shield switching to her big one when she gets no attention or when on clean up duty. Get her the best medium armor and any item to giver her enough dex for the armor she wears, buff with Cats's Grace if necessary.

Considering most of your AC in this game comes from items, and only few characters can get alternative AC growth, I don't see it being hard to make barb tank, yeah.

Amiri is also not the dumbest girl in the flock with 10 12 10 if I remember right. With any +4 item to casting stat she can easily multi into something with mirrorz.

Statistically she isn't, but...

 

[Shadenuat]

Well I mean, the blond is the dumbest.

 

[John Keel]

Well there you're going a bit in territory of not allowing casting spells out of combat fren, which means we might let out V1iktor on you who will maul you to death. With pictures from modded Diablo 1 or something.

You can't cast any hostile targeted action out of combat in TB

 

[Shadenuat]

Fireball into darkness is not hostile or targeted

 

[Desiderius]

She can work as a tank with Guarded Stance then get 1 point in dex for Dodge, and improve her defenses through Toughness, 6 more DR from rage powers, Protect Vitals, 3 Mobility for +1 AC from fighting defensively, Shield and Armor focus, use a normal bastard sword and shield switching to her big one when she gets no attention or when on clean up duty. Get her the best medium armor and any item to giver her enough dex for the armor she wears, buff with Cats's Grace if necessary.

Amiri tank test:

Amiri as Freebooter12/Thug4/Barb2, current playthrough, Curse six battle:

 

[gestalt11]

A properly built Mystic Theurge is very strong, you can get a ton of extra spells and diversity and only lose a few high level spells. I can't remember the details of a solo build i had specced out and played a bit but I think was something like Sylvan Sorc/feyspekaer druid

I tried that char.
I mean, if you just want to cast Sirocco and have a pet, single class Druid does it with more DC and earlier. And then how many degenerate siroccos you really need? Considering Druid also has stuff like Obsidian flow etc.

You are skipping over a ton of spells and buffs on the Sorc side of things such as being able to polymorph your pet into a dragon. Also the fact that having useful spell like sirrocco or baleful polymorph on sorc side lets you prepare other useful things on the druid side.

The theurge one is superior. You get better buffs for your pet, radically better personal buffs and twice the nukes/cc

 

[Yosharian]

+14 to hit? +4 BAB?? Mobs in chapter 2 have more than that. Please stop with this farce. You'd have a better test if you got her fight Tristian in melee...

54 AC while not flat-footed is average at best (especially since that's almost certainly buffed up to the eyeballs with everything you could find) and will not cut it if the AI starts focusing her.

 

[John Keel]

I'm live on twitch creating a retarded Shadenuat for Beneath the stolen lands, come participate in this grand design by comitee.

https://www.twitch.tv/supadieze

Then I'll create a few interesting mobs + new run fully modded for great glory

 

[Desiderius]

+14 to hit? +4 BAB?? Mobs in chapter 2 have more than that. Please stop with this farce. You'd have a better test if you got her fight Tristian in melee...

(a) lose the butthurt resentment, it's unbecoming

(b) the point is that she has 54 AC. I can rerun the test on harder mobs if you like. Her AC won't change. She's fighting Wild Hunt on the screenshot from my actual playthrough - are they not hard enough for you?

 

[Shadenuat]

You are skipping over a ton of spells and buffs on the Sorc side of things such as being able to polymorph your pet into a dragon. Also the fact that having useful spell like sirrocco or baleful polymorph on sorc side lets you prepare other useful things on the druid side.

The theurge one is superior. You get better buffs for your pet, radically better personal buffs and twice the nukes/cc

Mm I think only Alchemists can polymorph/transformation pets.

What buffs do you skip? Feyspeaker can dabble into Illusions, and mostly what Arcane contributes to pet is Mage Armor & Haste (although there's stuff like Heroism I guess). I guess if you refuse to use any other Arcane caster, or solo, you might want to take it, but usually you have other characters for this (Alchemist, for example, can cast Shield on pet and also Haste, and buff pet with illusion spells).

That's kinda the thing with the Druid; he doesn't have a lot of useful things "on the other side". Like, Baleful Poli, Vinetrap + pet buff are best picks for him on lvl 5, so is control spells on other levels. Druid spell selection is fairly basic, which is why you want to get the best stuff as high level as possible quickly.

 

[Yosharian]

+14 to hit? +4 BAB?? Mobs in chapter 2 have more than that. Please stop with this farce. You'd have a better test if you got her fight Tristian in melee...

(a) fuck off

(b) the point is that she has 54 AC. I can rerun the test on harder mobs if you like. Her AC won't change. She's fighting Wild Hunt on the screenshot from my actual playthrough - are they not hard enough for you?

Mobs in chapter 2 have more than that

The mob you're testing here has FOUR FUCKING BAB. I don't care if it thinks it's a fucking ancient gold dragon, it's not a good test

 

[rusty_shackleford]

you people are autistic

 

[Desiderius]

The mob you're testing here has FOUR FUCKING BAB. I don't care if it thinks it's a fucking ancient gold dragon, it's not a good test

THE.MOBS.DON'T.MATTER.

That's where that playthrough was when I respecced. 54 AC is enough to not be afraid of melee.

 

[Yosharian]

you people are autistic

'You people'? Fucking racist

 

[Yosharian]

The mob you're testing here has FOUR FUCKING BAB. I don't care if it thinks it's a fucking ancient gold dragon, it's not a good test

THE.MOBS.DON'T.MATTER.

That's where that playthrough was when I respecced.

The mobs don't matter in a tanking test, ok buddy