Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Grampy_Bone]

I don't think Quicken ever becomes "free". Empower, sure.

Well they don't have to buy it and can use it as much as a rod.

 

[ArchAngel]

Kineticist is probably one of the more broken class in PfK. Even when not using Deadly earth, a pure element blast can do 80 damage when your mage spells probably only do 40 or 50 at most. And you can use blasts willy nilly because it doesnt consumer resources

Only for trash fights. When it matters your wizard/sorcerer can fire two spells per turn and one of them will be empower and maximized. This is due to having lots of metamagic rods available for wizards/sorcerers.

Kineticist gets free empower/maximize/quickened blasts as a class feature.

Yes but it is not really free, it costs burn. And base damage of blast is weaker than spells and these help keep up. Casters can still go nova better in boss fights.

 

[Nerevar]

Some fights in the first chapter just aren't happening. The Boggards just charge 1 shot Val and then clean up the rest of my party even with all the buffs.

I'm feeling like I might have to cheat a bit on this difficulty and roll some mercenary henchmen just to close out this chapter.

Even with max dex, ensmallen humanoid, cats grease and a dex belt I am still missing many shots with my Kineticist.

 

[Pink Eye]

Some fights in the first chapter just aren't happening. The Boggards just charge 1 shot Val and then clean up the rest of my party even with all the buffs.

I'm feeling like I might have to cheat a bit on this difficulty and roll some mercenary henchmen just to close out this chapter.

Even with max dex, ensmallen humanoid, cats grease and a dex belt I am still missing many shots with my Kineticist.

What level were you when you fought the boggards?

 

[Nerevar]

4 I'm 5 now just finished up the stag lord easy if you get all the extra help.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Boggarts are stupid. Cacophonous Call? Daze? Hideous Laughter? Color Spray?

 

[Xamenos]

Some fights in the first chapter just aren't happening. The Boggards just charge 1 shot Val and then clean up the rest of my party even with all the buffs.

I'm feeling like I might have to cheat a bit on this difficulty and roll some mercenary henchmen just to close out this chapter.

Even with max dex, ensmallen humanoid, cats grease and a dex belt I am still missing many shots with my Kineticist.

Yeah, there are lots of fights in the game that are extremely difficult, if not outright impossible. when you first encounter them. None of them are mandatory though. You shouldn't be ashamed to avoid them and try again after you've gotten a couple more levels under your belt.

 

[Haplo]

Some fights in the first chapter just aren't happening. The Boggards just charge 1 shot Val and then clean up the rest of my party even with all the buffs.

I'm feeling like I might have to cheat a bit on this difficulty and roll some mercenary henchmen just to close out this chapter.

Even with max dex, ensmallen humanoid, cats grease and a dex belt I am still missing many shots with my Kineticist.

Should have started with a ranged touch attack element on your Kineticist - probably fire. Those like almost never miss.

 

[Nerevar]

Should have started with a ranged touch attack element on your Kineticist - probably fire. Those like almost never miss.

I did he can hit a bit better now but it is still a slog at this difficulty maybe I'll hit 75% of the time, getting off the first hit with the 2d6 fire and 2d6 sneak is pretty good so far. Character for reference.

Spoiler

I'm just at the beginning of act two on this character (see if you can notice the mistake on the character sheet).

I ended up starting a new playthrough too on hard difficulty, a monk just so I can take a break and faceroll the game when I am feeling burnt out with unfair.

 

[NJClaw]

Does anyone know if there is a mod that adds an actions queue? The buffing routine is becoming unbearable.

 

[LannTheStupid]

The buffing routine is becoming unbearable.

You may try this https://www.nexusmods.com/pathfinderkingmaker/mods/119 , but you will have to figure out how to set it up.

 

[Serious_Business]

Been playing this after all this time, and here's a couple of comments. I'm going to, first, say something ridiculous : I feel like the old AD&D system was more adequate for IE style gaming (note, I never played Icewind Dale 2 that much). The system was overall pretty simple, it wasn't encumbered with the permanent consideration for character optimization - something that I never got into since the days of 3rd edition DnD, I have to say. I guess this is really personal, and might be the nostalgia speaking - it's been ages I played the old IE games. But, apart from the simplicity of it, paradoxically you also had a more robust magic system, the thing that everyone praises from BG2 - it seems as if the resource system of the ulterior versions of DnD never were properly figured out, and Pathfinder inherited this. The idea behind it all, behind namely the feat system, was to make martial type classes more varied and "interesting" ; I suppose this worked, but it made magic in general much less consequential, and thus you have a situation where you don't really have access to exceptional resources. Of course magic can still be engagement-winning, but it's not so much decisive, it seems. But anyway, the new systems, to me, seem bogged down in some auxiliary nonsense, like the buffing system which is quite annoying - it symbolises what the new resource system is about, i.e. giving yourself some qualitative increments. This should really not exist anymore - "buffs" should be, at best, passive abilities, or really intensive powers that are used circumstantially and not mandatorily.

Going back to the jump from AD&D to 3rd edition - one thing it did was to introduce a kind of "infinite" statistical system, with no definite peak - the maximum in AD&D in terms of stats, for example, was 25. Not having that kind of limit is really a big fucking problem when you think about it ; it introduces the incremental mentality that never stops, and it becomes even more ridiculous in Pathfinder. Thinking a build in Pathfinder means pilling up stats, namely attack and ac ; this isn't exactly my idea of fun. In fact, this whole obsession for "builds", while it can be very stimulating and important for rpgs, seems to take a kind of obscene turn with 3rd edition and more so in Pathfinder. You can never really be "satisfied" with a build, it can always do "more" in quantitative terms ; this is quite absurd, as characters become immense stat-sheets, and not in a good way. I'm not even talking about the roleplay possibilities which are pretty much inherently annihilated ; I'm just talking about what this means as a tactical experience, to "build characters" - it means a lot of abstract calculations and not a lot of decision making outside of the character planning phase. In AD&D the builds were a lot more fixed, and then they took a kind of color depending on the items or spell usage, I suppose ; it was much more of a focused experience. Not saying that AD&D was the best system of all time or something, but for IE RTwP gameplay, which is inherently not very tactical, it seemed like it worked best. In Kingmaker you got the turned based mod of course, which is great, but there's too many trash encounters and the positioning system is not good - tactics are about positioning and you got every little going on here.

I suppose these critiques of Pathfinder and such were made many times elsewhere, but I'm not a DnD PnP player. In fact I consider all DnD to be nonsensical in terms of roleplaying possibilities, compared to other systems which are not so focused on "power play". I guess one should still say something about the narrative of Kingmaker, though - and I do guess this was also said many times, but, the writing is not so good. It's simply not very engaging. The idea behind the story is good enough - becoming a king-adventurer, that's a kind of neutral, not so offensive premise that is coherent with "power play" gaming ; it does allow for some kind of choices, as it makes choices something directly political and engaging. But yeah, apart from that, the characters and such, the writing that is imposed on you as a kind of stimulant, it's all a giant bore, especially on the generic fantasy backdrop. I suppose enough has been said to this point about the idea that more writing doesn't equal better ; we've deconstructed this old idea that a lot of writing means some kind of substantial, "intellectual" experience. But yeah, you get some bad shit in there - merchants telling you about their lives, "please tell me about your childhood" - jesus christ, I do not want to hear about your childhood. I would say the npc that was well written was the ranger guy, because he actually doesn't want to speak to you. These writers need to learn the value of mystery, of space. They just can't help themselves, everything has to be exposed, it's really fucking annoying.

You have to wonder about this versus Pillars - I played a shitton of that game and I fucking hate it, because I'm some kind of fucking moron, of course. I hate that it was so tedious, that everything about it felt like such a calculated, constructed experience - at least Kingmaker as more of a kind of enthusiasm to it. This is the only way I can explain the game is better received here than Pillars, because fundamentally there are not so different. Although I do suppose that some hail Pillars, with the DLCs, as "great" - I can't see why, but suppose I'd be curious to see if these people would consider Kingmaker to be just as great, or better - or worst. It all seems "ok", to me, at best.

So yeah, overall best game of the fucking century, will start my 7th run as a mook sylvan sorc very soon, also running a +3 crane style crit multiplying bite sneak attack that should net me about an average of 80 dmg argluahgluahgluah

 

[NJClaw]

The buffing routine is becoming unbearable.

You may try this https://www.nexusmods.com/pathfinderkingmaker/mods/119 , but you will have to figure out how to set it up.

Thank you, I don't think I would have been able to keep playing without this, it's such a time saver.

I really don't understand how a game like this doesn't have such a simple feature.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Thank you, I don't think I would have been able to keep playing without this, it's such a time saver.

While I do understand the advantages of this mod, I am not sure that: a) I want to give it the control over my spells; b) it is that much faster than using spell hotkeys and clicking on portraits.

I am glad that you found it helping, for sure.

 

[ga♥]

Serious_Business I used to think like you about 3rd edition dnd onward in CRPGs but honestly I learnt to enjoy the feat system. I guess someone could say it is an aquired taste but still.

What I strongly disagree is the thing about magic becoming less relevant. This is a Kingmaker (the vg) specific problem. Unfortunately the magic system in the game is not quite complex, and most of the people who enjoyed Kingmaker did it despite the weak ass magic combat.

On the writing, despite some retarted companions this is the best written CRPGS of the KS era. The main story/plot is much more coherent than BG2 for example IMHO. Comparing it with PoE is just an wrong.

 

[NJClaw]

Thank you, I don't think I would have been able to keep playing without this, it's such a time saver.

While I do understand the advantages of this mod, I am not sure that: a) I want to give it the control over my spells; b) it is that much faster than using spell hotkeys and clicking on portraits.

I am glad that you found it helping, for sure.

Right now my buffing routine consists of: 5x Mage Armor, 5x Shield, 5x Shield of Faith, 1x Bless, 5x Barkskin, 5x Cat's Grace, 5x Bull's Strength, 3x Blur, 1x Bestow Grace, 1x Blessing of Courage and Life, 3x Greater Magic Fang, 5x Heroism, 1x Enlarge Person, 1x Reduce Person, 1x Mirror Image. And it's only going to get worse. To execute it, I need at least 44 mouse clicks and 47 spell hotkeys "clicks", without counting character selection hotkeys "clicks" (between 30 and 40). To all of this, you need to add the time to move the mouse around, the time to not mess everything up (when you are casting 50 spells, it's easy to forget which spell you have already cast on which character) and the casting animations time.

With this mod, I just need to ctrl+f10 and then click "execute". It doesn't handle class abilities like the alchemist mutagen, but I can suffer a couple clicks more.

What do you mean with "give it control over my spells"? You can perfectly specify what to cast on whom.

 

[LannTheStupid]

It's up to you, but some of your buffs override each other. Like, bless is completely useless with heroism, and mage armor makes sense only on characters without any armor. Probably even without braces of armor. Not sure about stacking of Shield and Shield of Faith, either.

 

[NJClaw]

It's up to you, but some of your buffs override each other. Like, bless is completely useless with heroism, and mage armor makes sense only on characters without any armor. Probably even without braces of armor. Not sure about stacking of Shield and Shield of Faith, either.

Bless is not useless, because I have only 5 Heroism for 6 characters and 3 animal companions. Of course Mage Armor goes on unarmored targets (a monk, a vivisectionist and 3 animal companions). Shield of Faith gives a deflection bonus, while Shield gives a shield bonus, they stack. Next time I am gonna record how much time I spend on buffing without mod.

 

[ArchAngel]

Thank you, I don't think I would have been able to keep playing without this, it's such a time saver.

While I do understand the advantages of this mod, I am not sure that: a) I want to give it the control over my spells; b) it is that much faster than using spell hotkeys and clicking on portraits.

I am glad that you found it helping, for sure.

Right now my buffing routine consists of: 5x Mage Armor, 5x Shield, 5x Shield of Faith, 1x Bless, 5x Barkskin, 5x Cat's Grace, 5x Bull's Strength, 3x Blur, 1x Bestow Grace, 1x Blessing of Courage and Life, 3x Greater Magic Fang, 5x Heroism, 1x Enlarge Person, 1x Reduce Person, 1x Mirror Image. And it's only going to get worse. To execute it, I need at least 44 mouse clicks and 47 spell hotkeys "clicks", without counting character selection hotkeys "clicks" (between 30 and 40). To all of this, you need to add the time to move the mouse around, the time to not mess everything up (when you are casting 50 spells, it's easy to forget which spell you have already cast on which character) and the casting animations time.

With this mod, I just need to ctrl+f10 and then click "execute". It doesn't handle class abilities like the alchemist mutagen, but I can suffer a couple clicks more.

What do you mean with "give it control over my spells"? You can perfectly specify what to cast on whom.

Well you brought this on yourself by making this combination of characters. Get different party members and you will need to buff less. Like get one Bard and get Good Hope, that one replaces all the Heroisms. Just cast it while having Extend Rod active. You don't need half these buffs. No need for blurs, reduce or enlarge person, shield of faith does not stack with deflection rings, barkskin does not stack with natural armor amulets, cat's and bull's don't stack with items that give those stats. Bestow Grace is I think bugged and does not work at all.

 

[ArchAngel]

Been playing this after all this time, and here's a couple of comments. I'm going to, first, say something ridiculous : I feel like the old AD&D system was more adequate for IE style gaming (note, I never played Icewind Dale 2 that much). The system was overall pretty simple, it wasn't encumbered with the permanent consideration for character optimization - something that I never got into since the days of 3rd edition DnD, I have to say. I guess this is really personal, and might be the nostalgia speaking - it's been ages I played the old IE games. But, apart from the simplicity of it, paradoxically you also had a more robust magic system, the thing that everyone praises from BG2 - it seems as if the resource system of the ulterior versions of DnD never were properly figured out, and Pathfinder inherited this. The idea behind it all, behind namely the feat system, was to make martial type classes more varied and "interesting" ; I suppose this worked, but it made magic in general much less consequential, and thus you have a situation where you don't really have access to exceptional resources. Of course magic can still be engagement-winning, but it's not so much decisive, it seems. But anyway, the new systems, to me, seem bogged down in some auxiliary nonsense, like the buffing system which is quite annoying - it symbolises what the new resource system is about, i.e. giving yourself some qualitative increments. This should really not exist anymore - "buffs" should be, at best, passive abilities, or really intensive powers that are used circumstantially and not mandatorily.

Buffs existed in Bg1 and Bg2 and I used them all lot. Actually in many situations I spent more time buffing in BG2 than I do in PKM as in PKM you got such a loot overload they replace many buffs.
As for spells being decisive during combat in PKM, they are. It is just that you need to max out your caster stats to notice that, something that had no effect in AD&D where success of your spells only were affected by enemy resistances and those were often crap as a result. If you attacked enemy weak save your spells felt more powerful even when cast by a spellcasting novice with crap Intelligence or Wisdom.

 

[ga♥]

Bestow grace works. It has an effect though I am not sure it applies the correct bonus (you still get something).

 

[ArchAngel]

Bestow grace works. It has an effect though I am not sure it applies the correct bonus (you still get something).

I tried using it, my paladin gave it to my high charisma bard and bard got no bonus to saves.

 

[ga♥]

Bestow grace works. It has an effect though I am not sure it applies the correct bonus (you still get something).

I tried using it, my paladin gave it to my high charisma bard and bard got no bonus to saves.

I think maybe the issue it's it doesn't stack with other bonuses to saves... My slayer had low will and got something there but not on reflex and fortitude, so YMMV, but you could still get something.

 

[Billy Pilgrim]

Holy crap, the last time I was in this thread it was on page 131+. I want to do another playthrough and was wondering what the Codex recommendation (which is the only one that matters) is for mods? I will definitely be using Hsinyu's TB mod. That is a given.

 

[LannTheStupid]

My recommendation is no mods or just the Cleaner.

But if you have already signed for TB, you might as well install the top-10 from Nexus. You're not playing Pathfinder: Kingmaker anyway.