Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Desiderius]

Thanks. I assumed it was useless, but just wanted to confirm there wasn't some weird Pathfinder thing about hit chance on your main weapon effecting your spells or something. Hopefully I got precise shot, I'll check, but it could be confusing since I believe it says "ranged weapon" which doesn't scream magic. I can see why there was so much confusion for Pathfinder newbies, though usually a quick google search explains things. I'll give my cool bow to Linzi then, though she barely ever fires it really. Just got the alchemist guy and... not a fan. Linzi's buffs seem way more important.

Stop assuming. You're often wrong (as were we all).

Comically so about Linzi and Jub. They're both great and you've got them backwards. Linzi's only unique buff is Good Hope. Best in the game but still. Her action economy is better as a caster. Only Jub (or another Alchemist) can cast personal buffs on anyone, including most importantly pets. He's got bombs for attacks so he can handle most buffing.

This is a game for empiricists, not fools rushing in.

Or maybe empiricist fools rushing in.

 

[Desiderius]

I have never used its wild shape.

View attachment 12479

Lvl 13 Amiri

What form is she using?

Smilodon, from Armag relic armor I believe. Pounce is the strongest melee ability.

 

[Desiderius]

Hm, buy +1 Fire in your capital once you establish it.

Then pray for a +4 Oppressor (with +6 Charisma and +2 Will) from Sahiya. Can happen early (like Serpent Prince). Or not.
Afterwards oversized Ovinrbaane from Armag in Act 4 (very cool, even lets you cast many spells from the sword's lists). Then oversized Graveyard of the Giants early at the HatEoT (makes Rage spell kinda nice, as it acts like a +7 then).
Meanwhile if you still want to use Spell Combat at that time, there's also the Unstoppable Khanda (+4, bonuses to Persuasion, mind saves; also looks cool and is poisonous) at Pitax Palace and Ravenna's Kiss (+5 Adamantine, lest cast Harm 3x per rest) if you solve an obnoxious puzzle, also in Act 5.

For some reason they changed Oppressor to tier one so it can show up very early. Last playthrough ended up with three.

 

[Desiderius]

How are druids in this game? More specifically, can they go toe to toe with tougher enemies while shapeshifted, or is shifting underwhelming as usual?

I never play Druids, so was late to discover them here. First try was Amiri Barb 2/Defender of the True World 16/x with doing twin Leopards (shift + pet) Pouncing and Tripping.

Whole class is very strong, including shifting. Does take some time to figure out what works and what doesn't.

Cave Fangs and Creeping Doom especially fun/unique/effective.

 

[Pink Eye]

Thanks. I assumed it was useless, but just wanted to confirm there wasn't some weird Pathfinder thing about hit chance on your main weapon effecting your spells or something. Hopefully I got precise shot, I'll check, but it could be confusing since I believe it says "ranged weapon" which doesn't scream magic. I can see why there was so much confusion for Pathfinder newbies, though usually a quick google search explains things. I'll give my cool bow to Linzi then, though she barely ever fires it really. Just got the alchemist guy and... not a fan. Linzi's buffs seem way more important.

Stop assuming. You're often wrong (as were we all).

Comically so about Linzi and Jub. They're both great and you've got them backwards. Linzi's only unique buff is Good Hope. Best in the game but still. Her action economy is better as a caster. Only Jub (or another Alchemist) can cast personal buffs on anyone, including most importantly pets. He's got bombs for attacks so he can handle most buffing.

This is a game for empiricists, not fools rushing in.

Or maybe empiricist fools rushing in.

>Only Jub (or another Alchemist) can cast personal buffs on anyone
To add upon this, only alchemists can qualify for the discovery "Infusion". This discovery allows you to cast spells that have the "personal" description, on allies. For example, shield can negate magic missile. However, it is a personal spell. Meaning you can't cast it on allies. With the infusion discovery, you can cast the spell on allies, thus negating the spell magic missile. Which is very helpful in certain parts of the game.

>He's got bombs for attacks so he can handle most buffing.
Also, bombs are good in that they target "Touch AC", which is quite useful for certain enemies.

>Linzi's only unique buff is Good Hope.
Good hope is nice, but it does get out performed by greater heroism later in the game. It still makes for a decent spell through the mid game.

 

[DalekFlay]

I mean, tons of other stuff I've read from experienced players rant about how OP Linzi is, so at some point it's subjective. Good tips to keep in mind though. I got the alchemist guy at level 6 and immediately took the feat that lets him do personal stuff on others, so obviously I thought it sounded useful as well. Still, Linzi's song buffs, hold person, dex and strength buffs and emergency healing have been pretty useful for me. I'll play with the alchemist for a bit more and see what happens though.

I know I prefer Tristian to Harrim, but the game wants me to take Harrim to the troll base. Still debating that.

 

[Desiderius]

I mean, tons of other stuff I've read from experienced players rant about how OP Linzi is, so at some point it's subjective. Good tips to keep in mind though. I got the alchemist guy at level 6 and immediately took the feat that lets him do personal stuff on others, so obviously I thought it sounded useful as well. Still, Linzi's song buffs, hold person, dex and strength buffs and emergency healing have been pretty useful for me. I'll play with the alchemist for a bit more and see what happens though.

I know I prefer Tristian to Harrim, but the game wants me to take Harrim to the troll base. Still debating that.

Linzi is OP. So is Jub. Use both. I gave up my SCS BG playthrough because I was so annoyed that my Bard couldn't do anything else while singing.

Use Harrim early, Tristian late.

Then mix it up for fun and appreciate how strong they are by what you're missing.

 

[Desiderius]

Good hope is nice, but it does get out performed by greater heroism later in the game. It still makes for a decent spell through the mid game.

I'm not doing all those individual casts unless I have to. I think Heroic Invocation from Petal is what replaces it, but I may be misremembering.

 

[Yosharian]

I mean, you could just use greataxes... Haha

 

[Pink Eye]

I mean, tons of other stuff I've read from experienced players rant about how OP Linzi is, so at some point it's subjective. Good tips to keep in mind though. I got the alchemist guy at level 6 and immediately took the feat that lets him do personal stuff on others, so obviously I thought it sounded useful as well. Still, Linzi's song buffs, hold person, dex and strength buffs and emergency healing have been pretty useful for me. I'll play with the alchemist for a bit more and see what happens though.

I know I prefer Tristian to Harrim, but the game wants me to take Harrim to the troll base. Still debating that.

Harrim is the best companion once you figure out the build for him. Half the game is exploring and trying out different things.

 

[JDR13]

How are druids in this game? More specifically, can they go toe to toe with tougher enemies while shapeshifted, or is shifting underwhelming as usual?

I never play Druids, so was late to discover them here. First try was Amiri Barb 2/Defender of the True World 16/x with doing twin Leopards (shift + pet) Pouncing and Tripping.

Whole class is very strong, including shifting. Does take some time to figure out what works and what doesn't.

Cave Fangs and Creeping Doom especially fun/unique/effective.

I might consider doing the same thing with Amiri after seeing that. The only thing that concerns me is her low Wisdom. Was that easy to boost?

Also, can she still wield her sword effectively after dual-classing?

 

[Pink Eye]

>The only thing that concerns me is her low Wisdom. Was that easy to boost?
Will saves can be easily compensated with feats; Iron Will, Improved Will, and shake it off. You also have items to compensate as well. So, low wisdom isn't a concern.

 

[NJClaw]

What's the advantage of a leopard over a smilodon? Is it only because it is easier to maneuver in small corridors?

>The only thing that concerns me is her low Wisdom. Was that easy to boost?
Will saves can be easily compensated with feats; Iron Will, Improved Will, and shake it off. You also have items to compensate as well. So, low wisdom isn't a concern.

I think that his concern is because wisdom is the casting stat, not because of a poor will save.

You can easily find +6 items, so you can reach 18 wisdom without problems. You simply won't be able to affect enemies with your spell as a properly build druid would, because your DC will be lower.

 

[ga♥]

leopard is faster and smaller. end of advantages.

 

[Yosharian]

I have a Druid build for Amiri in my sig. I used the cheat mod to fix her stats a little but it's not essential.

And also just make Harrim an MT and be done with it

 

[Haplo]

Higher AC. And Trip chance.

 

[Yosharian]

Higher AC. And Trip chance.

Smilodon is still way better.

 

[JDR13]

What's the advantage of a leopard over a smilodon? Is it only because it is easier to maneuver in small corridors?

>The only thing that concerns me is her low Wisdom. Was that easy to boost?
Will saves can be easily compensated with feats; Iron Will, Improved Will, and shake it off. You also have items to compensate as well. So, low wisdom isn't a concern.

I think that his concern is because wisdom is the casting stat, not because of a poor will save.

You can easily find +6 items, so you can reach 18 wisdom without problems. You simply won't be able to affect enemies with your spell as a properly build druid would, because your DC will be lower.

You would need 19 Wisdom to cast level 9 spells though right? Also, why would the DC be lower? I'm not super familiar with the Pathfinder ruleset yet.

 

[DalekFlay]

Harrim is the best companion once you figure out the build for him. Half the game is exploring and trying out different things.

I gave him necro focus and some of that stuff is really cool, but only 3 group heals rather than 8 is rough in longer, more difficult battles.

 

[Pink Eye]

Harrim is the best companion once you figure out the build for him. Half the game is exploring and trying out different things.

I gave him necro focus and some of that stuff is really cool, but only 3 group heals rather than 8 is rough in longer, more difficult battles.

Throw a reach based weapon on him, then choose feats that primarily focus on procing AoOs. Dip one level into fighter, then rest into Cleric. It's a simple enough build that any new player can follow. There are other crazy builds that you can do on Harrim. But the 1 Fighter/ 19 Cleric is good enough for new players.

 

[Haplo]

Higher AC. And Trip chance.

Smilodon is still way better.

Not saying he isn't. Its just that other options have some advantages also.

 

[ArchAngel]

I have never used its wild shape.

View attachment 12479

Lvl 13 Amiri

What form is she using?

Smilodon, from Armag relic armor I believe. Pounce is the strongest melee ability.

You do know that barbarian rage ability also gives you pounce? And you can be Legendary size and use best two handed weapons with it...

 

[Desiderius]

I might consider doing the same thing with Amiri after seeing that. The only thing that concerns me is her low Wisdom. Was that easy to boost?

Also, can she still wield her sword effectively after dual-classing?

Great question. It's manageable but not the best thing she could be doing since you're spending pts on WIS instead of STR.

She's just such an awesome Freebooter. Oversized weapons + Lead Blades (Ranger exclusive) + Cleave/Cleaving Finish/Dreadful Carnage with no prereqs from Combat Style feats is such a great fit.

 

[Desiderius]

You do know that barbarian rage ability also gives you pounce? And you can be Legendary size and use best two handed weapons with it...

Exactly, but only from the third totem in that line, so takes a heavy Barb investment. Found out after that playthrough that you can do Legendary size + Wild Shape.

One of only three ways to get Pounce, none easy, of which I am aware.

 

[Desiderius]

You can easily find +6 items, so you can reach 18 wisdom without problems. You simply won't be able to affect enemies with your spell as a properly build druid would, because your DC will be lower.

You end up needing (much) higher than 18 just to memorize your spells. WIS is the hardest stat to stack.

You can still use your weapon while not Wildshaped (but not metal armor other than the one you've got on when you add your first Druid level - possible exploit), while wildshaped you get weapon bonuses - the CHR from Oppressor for instance - but not the damage or +to hit.