Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Shadenuat]

Oh, fuck off. "Make a better one yourself if you're so smart" is the laziest and stupidest way to dismiss criticism ever. I can tell you that Fallout 3 sucks without making an entire game, or that The Last Jedi was an abomination without having to direct my own movie.

Writing a build on a forum is not as difficult as making a movie. I mean, terminally retarded among us like me can do it in a few sentences, surely can you?

you do not want to give your opponents a chance to save if you can

Spoken like a true theorycrafter. People kill wild hunt monarches in this game with will based spells.

And then you only have a single, measly, extra d6 to show for it.

There are at least some things to increase your sneak damage in this game, although I don't remember what can you do for rays.

And Dreadful Carnage has a max range of 30 feet. Great for a melee character who is in the front lines.

30 feet is more than enough in this game. I mean, have you tried it? Fire fear-em kinetics are very effective.

What I take issue with is arguing that his builds are objectively good (they aren't), or that newbies should follow them if they want to git gud (they really shouldn't).

If he finished game on highest difficulty with them and, as you said yourself, "they kinda work", they at minimum are not bad. I cannot find any other "objective" measure but beating challenges game throws at me.

Personally I don't believe anyone should follow any build, guide or walkthrough because I don't see why would you ruin mastering the game for yourself; but to me it really seems like not the issue here, but that the man was the first and that increases the nuclear heat levels of your ass.

InEffect seemed completely oblivious to the fact, and completely resistant to change

Maybe your arguments were not enough. I had no trouble arguing with him 502 times about Sorcerers vs Wizards etc.

 

[Desiderius]

So where can I read your sample party build? Your favourite companions, your favourite main character, short description of the sinergy you're building for, feats and spells on level-ups. May I have a link, please?

​

MC: Freebooter 20
Linzi: Bard 20
Harrim: Cleric 20
Ekun: Ranger 20
Jub: Alchemist 20

Add whoever else has a quest (Val or Reg can be a back-up Bard should Linzi somehow go missing). Keep up the following as much as possible:

Archon's Aura
Dirge of Dread
Good Hope/Heroic Invocation
Inspire Courage/Heroics
Fascinate/Frightening Tune
Destructive Aura (Touch of Chaos on bosses)
Freebooter's Bond
Freebooter's Bane
Haste

By InEffect's own shitty criteria that unfair difficulty/raw power is all that matters, you'll blow his builds out of the water. The underlying philosophy of Pathfinder character development was to make straight builds as viable as multi-classing (someone forgot to tell InEffect), so there is a lot of snowballing in every class that is easily missed in addition to the obvious things like caster level. If you've ever played Jaethot as an Inquistor 20 you'll get a feel for how ridiculous things can get.

I prefer Shad's/Roahin's builds for fun/lore so I'd start there for new players. I don't like giving out full, detailed builds because a big part of the fun of the game is finding them for yourself.

Fav companion: Jub, he makes everything go much more smoothly without the raw power (I don't use fast/choking bombs) of Linzi.

Fav MC: ES 20 ranged, Pal 18/SF2 was fun too. ES was TWF ranged Slayer most of the game.

Synergy: everybody fights to minimize rest, focus on group abilities, especially ones with a lot of uses/duration like Bard Songs and Freebooter's Bond

Feats/spells: Shatter for iteratives, Improved Initiative/Shake it Off on everyone, CC over damage, focus on duration

 

[Desiderius]

Not sure what you mean, dazling is -2 saves

The ability you get at the very next level, which is also a pain to reach the mobs with at range. At least it doesn't take a full round to go off. If you don't understand why that Bard build sucks about eight different ways then you're the theorycrafter.

 

[LannTheStupid]

See, it's not even that difficult. And now you have a link to brag, as other haploids do.

 

[Desiderius]

I am seeing disturbing discordance between people who actively criticize InEffect and people who write builds.

You're seeing what you want to see to confirm your priors, champ.

The principle thing we're criticizing InEffect for is his criteria and how he imposes them on new players. That he fails by his own criteria is both gravy and a glorious tribute to the P:K game designers who made it happen.

 

[Pink Eye]

See, it's not even that difficult. And now you have a link to brag, as other haploids do.

A favorite past time of unfair players, is to shit over Ineffect. Even though he isn't here.

 

[Desiderius]

See, it's not even that difficult. And now you have a link to brag, as other haploids do.

Here's one for you:

Ultimate Team:

MC Crusader
Val Bard
Harrim Tactical Leader
Reg Vanguard
Amiri Freebooter
Jub Alchemist

Currently:

MC Archaeologist -> Arch 20
Val Displacer Beast Feyspeaker with Smilodon pet -> TSS1/FS 19 Smilodon Shape
Amiri Freebooter-> Barb 2/Freebooter 10/Thug 4 (All the Cleaves/Carnage via Combat Style/Vital Strikes)
Linzi Bard -> Reg Scion 2/Thundercaller 18
Harrim Cleric -> Tristian Cleric 16/some mix of full BAB for Greater Vital Strike
Kanerah Fire/Air -> Octavia Rogue 1/AT10/Wiz9

 

[Shadenuat]

See, it's not even that difficult. And now you have a link to brag, as other haploids do.

A favorite past time of unfair players, is to shit over Ineffect. Even though he isn't here.

The problem is he is as stubborn as a ram. Him fighting our synergy-american here would turn into 2000 posts thread.

Hmm, maybe I should run full InEffect build party in WoTR? see how it works without Stinking Cloud since most demons should be immune.

 

[Desiderius]

im fighting our synergy-american here would turn into 2000 posts thread.

He wore me out in three posts max every time I tried it at the GoG forum.

 

[Pink Eye]

He wore me out in 2 posts.

 

[Shadenuat]

weak fragile youths. should have trained on Cael first.

 

[Efe]

never talked with the guy but sounds like hes similar to desiderius

Linzi Bard -> Reg Scion 2/Thundercaller 18
Harrim Cleric -> Tristian Cleric 16/some mix of full BAB for Greater Vital Strike
Kanerah Fire/Air -> Octavia Rogue 1/AT10/Wiz9

decipher this for me

 

[LannTheStupid]

Linzi Bard -> Reg Scion 2/Thundercaller 18

"Instead of Linzi the Bard take Regongar using 2 levels of Eldritch Scion and 18 of Thundercaller bard". The rest is in the same notation.

 

[Pink Eye]

weak fragile youths. should have trained on Cael first.

Arguing with Ineffect takes a certain level of finesse. One that I do not have. It's not enough that you tell him he sucks dick. You have to mathematically prove that he sucks dick, while also cross referencing newtons law of dick sucking.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Yes, InEffect extolls the virtues of proper argumentation in disputes.

 

[Desiderius]

Linzi Bard -> Reg Scion 2/Thundercaller 18

"Instead of Linzi the Bard take Regongar using 2 levels of Eldritch Scion and 18 of Thundercaller bard". The rest is in the same notation.

Should Linzi somehow become unavailable, replace her with Reg, who starts with two lvls of Scion. Spellstriking Bard should be fun, pls looking forward to infinite Sonic Bursts late and getting Reg's racial Lightning Boost for Call Lightning. First try with Thundercaller. Should have enough Carnage by then not to need Dirge as much.

Left side of arrow is where I am currently, right side is endgame.

 

[Desiderius]

weak fragile youths. should have trained on Cael first.

Arguing with Ineffect takes a certain level of finesse. One that I do not have. It's not enough that you tell him he sucks dick. You have to mathematically prove that he sucks dick, while also cross referencing newtons law of dick sucking.

Been there, did that.

It's his obliviousness that gets you.

 

[Desiderius]

never talked with the guy but sounds like hes similar to desiderius

Linzi Bard -> Reg Scion 2/Thundercaller 18
Harrim Cleric -> Tristian Cleric 16/some mix of full BAB for Greater Vital Strike
Kanerah Fire/Air -> Octavia Rogue 1/AT10/Wiz9

decipher this for me

Current -> Endgame

 

[Nerevar]

So you can beat the unfair difficulty by making yourself immune to poison and then casting stinking cloud on every fight?

I thought I was smart for casting resist/absorb elements on my party and then using fireball every fight.

 

[Desiderius]

So you can beat the unfair difficulty by making yourself immune to poison and then casting stinking cloud on every fight?

I thought I was smart for casting resist/absorb elements on my party and then using fireball every fight.

It's a combination of the implementation of Delay Poison as Poison Immunity (if it were Delay you'd still have to deal with it at the end of the duration, like Unyielding Heart delays Confusion, as it is the effect is OP for level 3 since it makes the higher level spell Neutralize Poison moot) and the OP nature of persistent effects that keep trying every turn. Some effects once they miss they don't try again, but not Stinking Cloud, Sirocco, Deadly Earth, Plague Storm and the like, making those the most powerful effects in the game.

 

[Beggar]

See, it's not even that difficult. And now you have a link to brag, as other haploids do.

Here's one for you:

View attachment 12541

View attachment 12542

Ultimate Team:

MC Crusader
Val Bard
Harrim Tactical Leader
Reg Vanguard
Amiri Freebooter
Jub Alchemist

Currently:

MC Archaeologist -> Arch 20
Val Displacer Beast Feyspeaker with Smilodon pet -> TSS1/FS 19 Smilodon Shape
Amiri Freebooter-> Barb 2/Freebooter 10/Thug 4 (All the Cleaves/Carnage via Combat Style/Vital Strikes)
Linzi Bard -> Reg Scion 2/Thundercaller 18
Harrim Cleric -> Tristian Cleric 16/some mix of full BAB for Greater Vital Strike
Kanerah Fire/Air -> Octavia Rogue 1/AT10/Wiz9

Lol, exact my build with exact stats

 

[Desiderius]

Lol, exact my build with exact stats

Nothing too earth-shattering there, aside from Val Feyspeaker which was a class I'd always thought puzzlingly underpowered until I realized that Smilodon doesn't care about BAB and Feyspeaker is the easiest way to increase survivability via Mirror Image/Displacement. Fastest spell progression is always good. On Amiri Thug + Cleave is pretty sick, especially with Carnage sending everyone to the exits triggering AoOs all over the place.

Builds I've found effective:

Val: straight TSS, Bard, Kinetic Knight, Double Tiger Feyspeaker
Linzi: offensive caster melee Bard, AD/Thug/Bard with Disarming Strike shenanigans (disarmed mobs keep trying to attack unarmed, triggering AoOs for all in range, Strike applies Sickened/Debilitating via Thug, opened combat with fearing Dazzling Display from Stealth)
Amiri: tank Barb, Huntmaster, Defender of the Free World, Freebooter
Harrim: Touch of Chaos Cleric, MT (giving summons Shake it Off gives whole party +4 saves), Freebooter/Cleric Urgrosh wielder (TWF via Combat Style feats), Tactical Leader
Ekun: Ranger, Ranger/Sacred Huntmaster (give Okbo Outflank and Shake it Off, sweet Domain abilities)
Jub: Alchemist
Nok-nok: straight up Knife Master, going for Pounce this time via Barb
Jaethal: anything, she's nuts
Tristian: Cleric offensive caster/Sacred buffer, Scion/Cleric/Mystic Theurge, Eldritch Archer/Cleric/Mystic Theurge, Cleric self-buffing melee machine
Octavia: Rogue 4/Wiz3/AT 10 archer with Pits/Rays when touch is needed, Rogue 4/Sword Saint/Duelist
Reg: straight Scion, Scion/Feyspeaker (Air Domain)/MT
Kalikke: Water/Air Crane Wing tank (Whirlwind + Pushing Infusion (Greater Bull Rush))

 

[DalekFlay]

Man, fear effects are a bitch. Buff with every anti-fear spell I have and it still usually hits half my characters or more. Cyclops took me three tries, he can eat my dick.

 

[Yosharian]

Man, fear effects are a bitch. Buff with every anti-fear spell I have and it still usually hits half my characters or more. Cyclops took me three tries, he can eat my dick.

Web.

 

[Nerevar]

Ohh did you like that you stupid idiot ha ha ha.

Spoiler

Looks like your worthless songs were no match for a big axe. Song of discord indeed, didn't do nothing.

Spoiler

This happened in right after the screenshot as I was looking at the loot the boss dropped.

Err whoops. Whatever still won don't care.