Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Yosharian]

I'm still not seeing how changing his domain to Fire makes the game less fun, Shadenuat

 

[Yosharian]

Jaethal tank build
(Inquisitor 16/Stalwart Defender 4)

Skills: 5/level mostly

• Perception: essential skill
  
• Mobility (3): adds +1 bonus Dodge AC to Fighting Defensively
  
• Whatever other skills you require

Camp Role: Guard or Other

Some recommended equipment:

• Main Hand: Perfection (+5 Longsword, +2 Inherent to AC, saving throws, atk rolls, skill checks)
  
• Armor: Talwyn's Armor (+4 Chainmail, 50% incoming crit/Sneak Attack negation)
  
• Feet: Owlbear Skin Boots (Slow/Paralyze/Entangle/Difficult Terrain immunity)
  
• Head: Helmet of Battlefield Clarity (+2 Insight bonus to Will saves, +2 ?? bonus to attack rolls when using Combat Expertise)
  
• Belt: Mirrored Belt (Mirror Image 2x day, +4 Resistance bonus to Reflex saves)
  
• Neck: The Narrow Path (+2 ?? bonus to AC, +2AC/Saves vs Evil, can't attack Good)
  
• Any WIS-boosting item.
  
• Any DEX-boosting item.

Immunities: All mind-affecting effects, Death effects, Disease, Poison, Stun, Ability or energy drain, Ability damage, Exhaustion/Fatigue, Slow, Paralyze, Entangle, Difficult Terrain.

Feats (*: bonus feat):
L01 Inquisitor 1: Toughness
L02 Inquisitor 2: -
L03 Inquisitor 3: Dodge, Precise Strike*
L04 Inquisitor 4:
L05 Inquisitor 5: Weapon Focus (Longsword), Bane
L06 Inquisitor 6: Outflank*
L07 Inquisitor 7: Dazzling Display
L08 Inquisitor 8: -
L09 Inquisitor 9: Shatter Defenses, Back-to-Back*
L10 Inquisitor 10: -
L11 Stalwart Defender 1: Combat Expertise, Defensive Stance
L12 Stalwart Defender 2: Defensive Power: Rousing Defense
L13 Stalwart Defender 3: Blind-Fight, Uncanny Dodge
L14 Stalwart Defender 4: Defensive Power: Smash
L15 Inquisitor 11: Improved Unarmed Strike
L16 Inquisitor 12: Shake It Off*, Greater Bane
L17 Inquisitor 13: Crane Style
L18 Inquisitor 14: -
L19 Inquisitor 15: Crane Wing, Coordinated Defense*
L20 Inquisitor 16: -

Suggested Spells (H: Heighten spell):
1st: Cure Light Wounds, Remove Fear, Shield of Faith, Expeditious Retreat
2nd: Cure Moderate Wounds, Lesser Restoration, Invisibility, Remove Paralysis
3rd: Cure Serious Wounds, Magical Vestment, Remove Curse, Communal Delay Poison
4th: Divine Power, Greater Invisibility, Death Ward, Freedom of Movement, Cure Critical Wounds
5th: Spell Resistance, Break Enchantment, True Seeing
6th: Heal

AC Bonus Breakdown:

• +10: Basic AC bonus
  
• +2: Dexterity bonus (14 base)
  
• +4: Natural Armor bonus [Transformation spell]
  
• +5: Enhancement to Natural Armor [Barkskin]
  
• +5: Deflection bonus [Ring of Protection +5]
  
• +4: Sacred bonus [Judgement]
  
• +2: Dodge bonus [Stalwart Defender passive bonus]
  
• +2: Dodge bonus [Stalwart Defender active ability - Defensive Stance]
  
• +3: Dodge bonus [Fighting Defensively + 3 ranks in Mobility]
  
• +1: Dodge bonus [Crane Style]
  
• +4: Dodge bonus [Crane Wing] (note: only versus melee attacks)
  
• +1: Dodge bonus [Haste spell]
  
• +1: Dodge bonus [Dodge feat]
  
• +5: Dodge bonus [Combat Expertise]
  
• +4: Dodge bonus [15th level Bard Song - Inspire Heroics]
  
• +2: Inherent bonus [Perfection]
  
• +2: ??? bonus [The Narrow Path]
  
• +4: Shield bonus [Shield spell]
  
• +6: Armor bonus [Talwyn's Armor]
  
• +4: Enhancement to Armor [Talwyn's Armor]
  
• Total Armor Class: 71
  
• Touch Armor Class: 46

 

[Shadenuat]

I'm still not seeing how changing his domain to Fire makes the game less fun, Shadenuat

I don't even know how can one explain humor.

you don't need fucking fireballs from cleric dude. you need cleric spells from cleric. and you have enough slots through levels to fill with some fireballs if you really want to.
if you truly want to throw fireballs you want someone who has boosts to fireballs/sneak attacks etc. +ability to boost your casting stat (even with dips sometimes) to maximize DC to beat high enemy saves.
which btw cleric can help with by casting shit like Archon aura instead of a fireball.

 

[LannTheStupid]

A tank without Mirror Image... hmmm...

But OK, thank you for sharing.

 

[Shadenuat]

that Jaethal tank is only good for eating 1 unfair attack and then popping back without buffs at the end of combat.

 

[Yosharian]

I'm still not seeing how changing his domain to Fire makes the game less fun, Shadenuat

I don't even know how can one explain humor.

you don't need fucking fireballs from cleric dude. you need cleric spells from cleric. and you have enough slots through levels to fill with some fireballs if you really want to.
if you truly want to throw fireballs you want someone who has boosts to fireballs/sneak attacks etc. +ability to boost your casting stat (even with dips sometimes) to maximize DC to beat high enemy saves.
which btw cleric can help with by casting shit like Archon aura instead of a fireball.

1) What's the point of Ecclesitheurge then, if not to be able to cast non-Cleric spells? Access to a few cute domain spells and a small buff that requires a standard action and only lasts a turn unless you burn heals? In exchange for losing armor and Cleric weapons?

2) An Arcane Trickster doesn't have the ability to heal up your entire party after the fight. That's the point of Eccle - you get the offensive casting of a Wizard, with the crazy Channel healing that a Cleric gets. And you don't need fucking Selective Channel and Extra Channel to do that. Healing during fights is inefficient, but if it's really necessary the Cleric already has tools to do that in the shape of spontaneous casting, he doesn't need to burn feats to do it via Channel.

3) You can still dip to get stat boosts if you want. How does me giving Tristian a different domain stop you from a Cognatogen dip?

4) The way I've modified Tristian, you can still cast Archon's Aura... in fact, he's even better at it than he was before. This criticism makes zero sense. Archon's takes one action to cast, and you can even cast it just before a fight once you get high level enough. So it's not Archon's OR Fireballs, you can do both.

 

[Yosharian]

that Jaethal tank is only good for eating 1 unfair attack and then popping back without buffs at the end of combat.

Feel free to suggest a better build.

 

[Yosharian]

A tank without Mirror Image... hmmm...

But OK, thank you for sharing.

Sigh. I mean I can't work miracles, she starts as an Inquisitor. It's not easy to gain access to Mirror Image without reworking the character completely. The only WIS-based caster is Empyreal which means no armor, not the best solution here. Eldritch Scion could work but requires major investment to obtain casting in medium armor, and you said yourself you want to keep her archetype... Anyway you'd need 7 levels of Scion, which would mean a maximum of 13 levels of Inquisitor, as well as sacrificing the Stalwart Defender dip. It could work, I guess. Would give you a bunch of 7 min/level Mirror Images.

 

[LannTheStupid]

I mean I can't work miracles, she starts as an Inquisitor.

No, it's OK. Thank you. Perhaps the fact that she can not die from a random crit is her best trait for Unfair. So may be the "layered defense" that InEffect loves so mush is not necessary. And the resulting AC is very good.

 

[Desiderius]

I would really like to understand how to make a useful character out of jaethal while keeping her archetype (which in my opinion is a judge). My One True God suggested making her a cleric, but while it keeps her devotion to Urgathoa it kind of lacks the judgement aspect.

Inq 20. Everything snowballs.

 

[Desiderius]

I mean I can't work miracles, she starts as an Inquisitor.

No, it's OK. Thank you. Perhaps the fact that she can not die from a random crit is her best trait for Unfair. So may be the "layered defense" that InEffect loves so mush is not necessary. And the resulting AC is very good.

Yeah, I think you guys were being a little too hard on Yosh. He's providing the most detailed builds of anyone and he has some good ideas in a vacuum. That's worth something.

Not his fault he can't appreciate being around a superior intellect like I do with Hap and Shad. He'll grow out of it.

 

[Desiderius]

A tank without Mirror Image... hmmm...

But OK, thank you for sharing.

Sigh. I mean I can't work miracles, she starts as an Inquisitor. It's not easy to gain access to Mirror Image without reworking the character completely. The only WIS-based caster is Empyreal which means no armor, not the best solution here. Eldritch Scion could work but requires major investment to obtain casting in medium armor, and you said yourself you want to keep her archetype... Anyway you'd need 7 levels of Scion, which would mean a maximum of 13 levels of Inquisitor, as well as sacrificing the Stalwart Defender dip. It could work, I guess. Would give you a bunch of 7 min/level Mirror Images.

Image is great but it's not everything. Let her free Skellies tank.

Roahin had a nice TSS9/Inq11 build with Combat Expertise (she's one of the few Companions with the INT to get it) to shore up her Touch AC.

 

[Desiderius]

I'm still not seeing how changing his domain to Fire makes the game less fun, Shadenuat

I don't even know how can one explain humor.

you don't need fucking fireballs from cleric dude. you need cleric spells from cleric. and you have enough slots through levels to fill with some fireballs if you really want to.
if you truly want to throw fireballs you want someone who has boosts to fireballs/sneak attacks etc. +ability to boost your casting stat (even with dips sometimes) to maximize DC to beat high enemy saves.
which btw cleric can help with by casting shit like Archon aura instead of a fireball.

Thanks for handling this, Shad. I was dreading it. You hit the highlights.

 

[Desiderius]

Secret build on Jaethal is Inq1/Necromancer19 (Sorc or Wiz) using Cephal's Staff.

 

[Desiderius]

1) What's the point of Ecclesitheurge then, if not to be able to cast non-Cleric spells? Access to a few cute domain spells and a small buff that requires a standard action and only lasts a turn unless you burn heals? In exchange for losing armor and Cleric weapons?

Questions like those are at the heart of enjoying Pathfinder, both PnP and P:K. I've found they're better answered through experience than theory-crafting.

 

[Shadenuat]

jaethal statline is basically ineffect wet dream come true, the perfect //////// spread. she can be any caster, get almost any feat, and that multiplied by her immunities. she's perfect for turning into salads of singing sneak attacking mirrored [insert sorc bloodline] biting infused faggotry.

or turn her into pure clerek, summon all the skeletons. or into that clerek, that can summon even more summons.

or grab every passive ac feat, get like +8 ac from carrying shield instead of pathetic shield spell early, get hit 1% instead of 20% of the time.

or how about a pet class?

or don't do anything, she gets her free skelingtons anyway and divine spells is only way to enlarge her.

 

[Yosharian]

Ah man, I forgot about Legendary Proportions not being able to affect Undead. Shit. That's really bad for the build I posted. Really bad.

 

[Shadenuat]

great, now you made me think how to haplo jaethal into saint scythe x4 crit stacking dex and int to ac to keep the theme of scythe wielding elf dread lady and I am not going to install the game

maybe I will just spreadsheet yoshi it in bed in a dream sleeping.

breath in

not installing game again

breath out

replaying bg2 with scs on insane

wuh, that was close

 

[Yosharian]

great, now you made me think how to haplo jaethal into saint scythe x4 crit stacking dex and int to ac to keep the theme of scythe wielding elf dread lady and I am not going to install the game

maybe I will just spreadhseet yoshi it in bed in a dream sleeping.

If I could load up Kingmaker at work and test builds in-game, I would.

Also there's the fact that my RSI flaring up basically means I can't play anything that doesn't use a gamepad, right now. And I am NOT playing Kingmaker on a fucking gamepad.

 

[Yosharian]

What if Jaethal was a Sorcerer instead of an Inquisitor. I wonder if there's any game text that refers to her being an Inquisitor...

 

[Pink Eye]

What if Jaethal was a Sorcerer instead of an Inquisitor. I wonder if there's any game text that refers to her being an Inquisitor...

>I wonder if there's any game text that refers to her being an Inquisitor...
Wut... Now you're trolling. Her whole quest is about her being an inquisitor for Urgathoa...

 

[Shadenuat]

If I could load up Kingmaker at work and test builds in-game, I would.

it's fine. in name of deus ex erius and popapink IV, and Saint Dixon, I absolve you of your ineffects. walk in peace of excel.exe

 

[Desiderius]

Highlights from quick, futile run through VTomb:

Why Good Domain is better than Fire on Tristian part 3 or 4

An example of how Artisans enhance replayability: Popped Rod of Undeath (+2 Necro DCs) and Leviathan's Gift (Maximize 6 spells per rest) which made the spell Undeath to Death a viable option for Harrim to spam in these big Undead fights. 48HD of death ain't bad. Here they lucked out.

Tristian was stupidly casting his Nukes instead of just Channeling down the Undead. Bad habit formed from using that Artisan Robe to juice up his nukes previously. Was hoping to clear out the chaff so Harrim could hit more of the big guys.

MC finishes Cephal off. Touch was nice but almost everybody had high enough AB to it him, the misses were from Cephal's Mirror Image spam that I didn't roll enough Initiative to disrupt effectively. Maybe I'll try some True Seeing next time. Stoneskin (Communal) helped keep everyone alive. My best performance on this fight on Unfair so far.

Fighting Vordokai with half our buffs worn off. Linzi gets a lucky roll and down Goes Vordokai! He was quickly dispatched after that.

Spoiler

People call this betrayal. What?

The good luck continues. Good thing I didn't steal those rubies!

He gets his revenge. Either one of those lands that spell never goes off (Touch of Chaos -> failed Concentration check stunlock). Oh well, turned out to be all for naught as we'll be reloading to catch the Barb Camp that mysteriously wasn't there when we got out.

 

[Pink Eye]

If I could load up Kingmaker at work and test builds in-game, I would.

it's fine. in name of deus ex erius and popapink IV, and Saint Dixon, I absolve you of your ineffects. walk in peace of excel.exe

Thank you sir shade.exe.

 

[Desiderius]

Ah man, I forgot about Legendary Proportions not being able to affect Undead. Shit. That's really bad for the build I posted. Really bad.

I just figured it out yesterday. Your build is solid. Not nearly as bad as the Wildshaping Vivi I tried on her yesterday. Nothing worked.

Steadfast Defender is one of few classes I have left to try. Had forgotten it gives you UD.