Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Erikkolai]

In my latest run I recruited Harrim & Jaethal first, then grabbed Linzi. Valerie was caged, and the kobold chief kept insulting her intelligence.

 

[LannTheStupid]

But I AM Polish.

Then I would like to ask you to elaborate. How the game based on pan Sapkowski brilliant novels inspires the lack of reading in your Western brothers?

 

[Gargaune]

I found Kingmaker's story perfectly serviceable, one of the better ones I've seen in an RPG, though definitely far from the best (That honour will always remain with PS:T). I am legitimately struggling to think more than a handful of comparable games with similar breadth of exploration. And I am pretty happy with the CnC in the game, which I suppose is what you mean by "freedom". I could understand if you said it's not the best in those categories, but to say it has no balance of them along with combat is absurd. I am very, very curious on which games you think did better in all categories.

We just disagree, I found the story and companions very boring and the pacing was godawful. By freedom I mean the enjoyment many get from fucking around and roaming the maps and such (explorefags), which the time limits and strict structures fuck with. Again I enjoyed the game, I'm not bashing it, but it is absolutely doing one thing extremely well and other things either okay or meh. Sweeper is right that's a combatfag paradise, or a character building showcase, but for people that want other things I don't think it's the pure incline for them that it is for him. Everyone's different, and there probably is no game that does "better in all categories." That's why people prefer this or that, it caters more to their priorities.

As far as the plot is concerned, I thought it was quite decent. The villain's story actually follows very similar beats to that of Irenicus - hubris, overreach, punishment and revenge - but without the benefit of David Warner's thespian rendition. It's definitely more subdued, but I did feel PFKM did better than BG 2 in tying it all together in retrospect, when you get the gist of Nyrissa's game and the recurring theme of clashing kings gets put into context. The companions were quite dull, though, and their personal quests were quite flat, even occasionally annoying with their tendency to butt in whenever. Except Jaethal's, she was fun. Anyway, overall I agree, it's a solid all-rounder, not a new definitive milestone.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

But I AM Polish.

Then I would like to ask you to elaborate. How the game based on pan Sapkowski brilliant novels inspires the lack of reading in your Western brothers?

Witcher 3 became a mainstream hit winning multiple GOTY awards. For many people it was first experience with a western RPGs in years or in some cases their first experience with an RPG in their lives. After playing it they became a fans of the genre. Naturally since the story is the highest point of Twitcher 3, they turned into creatures commonly known as storyfags.
Since Witcher 3 defined how they see RPGs they expect all the important story bits to be read-aloud to them. All the text is just useless fluff that can be read if there's nothing interesting to do since majority of text in TW3 is just filler.
As such they became storyfags who don't read. Previously Bioware was responsible for producing these but their scope was more limited. First of all they made BG2, which actually required people to read. So even people who started with KOTOR and ME could cure themselves simply by playing other games made by their favorite dev. Secondly, after ME3 and later Andromeda they became a joke.

 

[LannTheStupid]

The companions were quite dull, though, and their personal quests were quite flat, even occasionally annoying with their tendency to butt in whenever.

I would like to politely disagree with you, especially with regard to Jubilost, Regongar and Octavia quests. Nok-Nok story is awesome in its own right, but he is too much of a comic relief.

Gangrelrumbler Dziękuję Ci bardzo.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

She can leave you if you pick the evil dialogue options in the prologue. To make things worse, she doesn't admit this in her book, further proving that she's a narcissist.

Yep. Amiri is the only one who always joins you in the prologue. Based on your dialogue responses to Jamandi, you get Valerie/Harrim or Linzi/Jaethal

I'm like 99% sure I always got Valerie and Linzi.

 

[Lawntoilet]

She can leave you if you pick the evil dialogue options in the prologue. To make things worse, she doesn't admit this in her book, further proving that she's a narcissist.

Yep. Amiri is the only one who always joins you in the prologue. Based on your dialogue responses to Jamandi, you get Valerie/Harrim or Linzi/Jaethal

I'm like 99% sure I always got Valerie and Linzi.

When you talk to Jamandi at the end of the prologue:
If you pick the Lawful options to explain why you went in the armory, you get Val, if you pick a Chaotic option you get Harrim.
If you pick a Good option to explain why you did or didn't help the soldiers in the fire, you get Linzi, otherwise if you pick an Evil option you get Jaethal.

 

[Ulfhednar]

Lawful = Valerie
Chaotic = Harrim
Good = Linzi
Evil = Jaethal

Edit: too slow...

 

[Ramnozack]

I feel like this game suffered from the lack of a decent hub area. Like despite a large portion of the game being based around building your kingdom and particularly your capital, there is no decent city area in the game. It feels like the entire game is composed of BG1 wilderness areas if that makes sense. Hope that improves somewhat in WOTR

 

[LannTheStupid]

I feel like this game suffered from the lack of a decent hub area.

Lolwut? Like, your own capital of your own barony with your own palace is not enough?

 

[Ramnozack]

I feel like this game suffered from the lack of a decent hub area.

Lolwut? Like, your own capital of your own barony with your own palace is not enough?

It's literally one small area with barely anything in it you fuckin dunce.

 

[LannTheStupid]

So "hub" is not a set of features, but amount of space. Duly noted.

Zadornov was right (10 times).

 

[DalekFlay]

As far as the plot is concerned, I thought it was quite decent. The villain's story actually follows very similar beats to that of Irenicus - hubris, overreach, punishment and revenge - but without the benefit of David Warner's thespian rendition. It's definitely more subdued, but I did feel PFKM did better than BG 2 in tying it all together in retrospect, when you get the gist of Nyrissa's game and the recurring theme of clashing kings gets put into context. The companions were quite dull, though, and their personal quests were quite flat, even occasionally annoying with their tendency to butt in whenever. Except Jaethal's, she was fun. Anyway, overall I agree, it's a solid all-rounder, not a new definitive milestone.

I probably would have enjoyed the plot a lot more if it didn't take 150 hours with at least half of that being filler.

 

[Nano]

Lolwut? Like, your own capital of your own barony with your own palace is not enough?

That tiny square is not a hub. Your fanboyism is showing.

 

[LannTheStupid]

take 150 hours with at least half of that being filler.

What exactly is filler in your opinion? There are not that many chapters, so you can list everything.

 

[Gargaune]

take 150 hours with at least half of that being filler.

What exactly is filler in your opinion? There are not that many chapters, so you can list everything.

The kingdom management component does stretch things out quite a bit, perhaps a bit too much, and the artisan quests also involve a lot of to-and-fro. Granted, that stuff's not plot filler, but the effect is still the same in that it can dilute a sense of story progression. My first playthrough came in at around 120 hours, if I recall correctly, and I very much enjoyed it but I also wouldn't have objected to a denser plot delivery, your mileage may vary.

P.S. You're right about Nok-Nok, actually, his quest didn't leave much of an impression but he was great to have around. The others, eh. Just to be clear, I didn't hate the game's companions, I just didn't get much of a kick out of most of them.

 

[oldmanpaco]

She can leave you if you pick the evil dialogue options in the prologue. To make things worse, she doesn't admit this in her book, further proving that she's a narcissist.

Yep. Amiri is the only one who always joins you in the prologue. Based on your dialogue responses to Jamandi, you get Valerie/Harrim or Linzi/Jaethal

I'm like 99% sure I always got Valerie and Linzi.

Choose a different response and embrace your inner edgelord to get the best waifu from the start!

 

[Nano]

Level 5, literally just finished act 1, and I came across a random encounter with 4 large water elementals. Right in the middle of the fight, an *additional* 4 large water elementals spawn at both ends of the map.

If this was a tabletop game, I would be attacking the DM right about now.

 

[Xamenos]

along with story, exploration, freedom, etc.

By freedom I mean the enjoyment many get from fucking around and roaming the maps and such (explorefags)

I think it's time to accept that as someone who counts exploration twice in his criteria, you may not be as representative of the norm as you assumed. It is absolutely a valid preference and I'm not gonna diss you for being an explorefag. Or try to try to get into an argument about matters of taste. But you are mistaken if you think you are storyfag, and you shouldn't really try to speak for them.

 

[Xamenos]

Level 5, literally just finished act 1, and I came across a random encounter with 4 large water elementals. Right in the middle of the fight, an *additional* 4 large water elementals spawn at both ends of the map.

If this was a tabletop game, I would be attacking the DM right about now.

I thought they'd fixed this bug. I'm pretty sure I saw it mentioned on some patch notes somewhere. I wish you were able to run from encounters without having to reload though.

And a DM is perfectly within his rights to drop an overwhelming encounter on the party. It's only if he pulls shit out of his ass to prevent the party from retreating that he deserves to have his teeth knocked out.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Isn't Vanish enough to run from any encounter? Or does it require Greater Invisilibity?

 

[DalekFlay]

The kingdom management component does stretch things out quite a bit, perhaps a bit too much, and the artisan quests also involve a lot of to-and-fro. Granted, that stuff's not plot filler, but the effect is still the same in that it can dilute a sense of story progression. My first playthrough came in at around 120 hours, if I recall correctly, and I very much enjoyed it but I also wouldn't have objected to a denser plot delivery, your mileage may vary.

Yes, plus I didn't really like the last couple stories much. Again though, I said I very much enjoyed the game despite its flaws and it overstaying its welcome.

You can tell this thread is full of devotees at this point, because any criticism is treated like heresy. I don't think saying it's a mechanics focused game that gets worse in its second half is a controversial statement anywhere else on the forum.

 

[Lawntoilet]

The kingdom management component does stretch things out quite a bit, perhaps a bit too much, and the artisan quests also involve a lot of to-and-fro. Granted, that stuff's not plot filler, but the effect is still the same in that it can dilute a sense of story progression. My first playthrough came in at around 120 hours, if I recall correctly, and I very much enjoyed it but I also wouldn't have objected to a denser plot delivery, your mileage may vary.

Yes, plus I didn't really like the last couple stories much. Again though, I said I very much enjoyed the game despite its flaws and it overstaying its welcome.

You can tell this thread is full of devotees at this point, because any criticism is treated like heresy. I don't think saying it's a mechanics focused game that gets worse in its second half is a controversial statement anywhere else on the forum.

Who's treating your criticisms like "heresy?"
There are people who disagree with you and enjoy the story, and I disagree with you about time limits (we've already had that discussion), but everyone seems like they're being pretty polite to you.
I certainly agree that the game declines near the end (although it picks up again after the House at the End of Time), and I don't think anyone likes the HotEoT.

 

[LannTheStupid]

On the other hand, the House at the End of Time is the set of consequences of player's previous decisions. I think it might be bigger detraction than critics are willing to admit. Responsibility is hard.

But I haven't gone through it on Hard or Unfair yet, so I may be wrong.

 

[Lawntoilet]

On the other hand, the House at the End of Time is the set of consequences of player's previous decisions. I think it might be bigger detraction than critics are willing to admit. Responsibility is hard.

But I haven't gone through it on Hard or Unfair yet, so I may be wrong.

I don't mean the C&C aspect related to the companion quests, those are fine. I mean that the dungeon had the worst area design and encounter design in the game, I remember it feeling like a real slog. Low point of the game for me.