Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[oldmanpaco]

On the other hand, the House at the End of Time is the set of consequences of player's previous decisions.

Yeah I don't think the 29 battles with identical Fey enemies was a consequence of player decisions. It was a consequence of developers running out of time and money.

edit: I still have no idea why they did that. They could have cut the encounters by half and it would have been fine. God knows the game was long enough so they didn't need to drag it out further.

 

[DalekFlay]

Who's treating your criticisms like "heresy?"
There are people who disagree with you and enjoy the story, and I disagree with you about time limits (we've already had that discussion), but everyone seems like they're being pretty polite to you.
I certainly agree that the game declines near the end (although it picks up again after the House at the End of Time), and I don't think anyone likes the HotEoT.

I didn't mean heresy super seriously dude, it's the Codex. Just jabbin' back and forth. Point is most still checking this thread are big fans, that's all.

 

[LannTheStupid]

I still have no idea why they did that.

Experience and possibility to level up before the final battle?

 

[Lawntoilet]

On the other hand, the House at the End of Time is the set of consequences of player's previous decisions.

Yeah I don't think the 29 battles with identical Fey enemies was a consequence of player decisions. It was a consequence of developers running out of time and money.

edit: I still have no idea why they did that. They could have cut the encounters by half and it would have been fine. God knows the game was long enough so they didn't need to drag it out further.

It's the Avellone Curse (see also: KotOR2).

Who's treating your criticisms like "heresy?"
There are people who disagree with you and enjoy the story, and I disagree with you about time limits (we've already had that discussion), but everyone seems like they're being pretty polite to you.
I certainly agree that the game declines near the end (although it picks up again after the House at the End of Time), and I don't think anyone likes the HotEoT.

I didn't mean heresy super seriously dude, it's the Codex. Just jabbin' back and forth. Point is most still checking this thread are big fans, that's all.

Well sure, it's not a new game anymore. The discussions over whether or not the game's good have pretty much all been had at this point.
It's still pretty much just regular polite disagreement (with the exception of 2 specific faggots who drop in from time to time).

 

[santino27]

She can leave you if you pick the evil dialogue options in the prologue. To make things worse, she doesn't admit this in her book, further proving that she's a narcissist.

Yep. Amiri is the only one who always joins you in the prologue. Based on your dialogue responses to Jamandi, you get Valerie/Harrim or Linzi/Jaethal

I'm like 99% sure I always got Valerie and Linzi.

When you talk to Jamandi at the end of the prologue:
If you pick the Lawful options to explain why you went in the armory, you get Val, if you pick a Chaotic option you get Harrim.
If you pick a Good option to explain why you did or didn't help the soldiers in the fire, you get Linzi, otherwise if you pick an Evil option you get Jaethal.

Yep, this. If you've always gotten Valerie and Linzi, it's because you've always gone with the lawful and neutral good dialogue options when talking at the end of the prologue. As I have tried a few runs with Jaethal as a tank, I've often made sure I started with her instead of Linzi.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

She can leave you if you pick the evil dialogue options in the prologue. To make things worse, she doesn't admit this in her book, further proving that she's a narcissist.

Yep. Amiri is the only one who always joins you in the prologue. Based on your dialogue responses to Jamandi, you get Valerie/Harrim or Linzi/Jaethal

I'm like 99% sure I always got Valerie and Linzi.

When you talk to Jamandi at the end of the prologue:
If you pick the Lawful options to explain why you went in the armory, you get Val, if you pick a Chaotic option you get Harrim.
If you pick a Good option to explain why you did or didn't help the soldiers in the fire, you get Linzi, otherwise if you pick an Evil option you get Jaethal.

Yep, this. If you've always gotten Valerie and Linzi, it's because you've always gone with the lawful and neutral good dialogue options when talking at the end of the prologue. As I have tried a few runs with Jaethal as a tank, I've often made sure I started with her instead of Linzi.

You shouldn't pick the wrong choices

 

[santino27]

The kingdom management component does stretch things out quite a bit, perhaps a bit too much, and the artisan quests also involve a lot of to-and-fro. Granted, that stuff's not plot filler, but the effect is still the same in that it can dilute a sense of story progression. My first playthrough came in at around 120 hours, if I recall correctly, and I very much enjoyed it but I also wouldn't have objected to a denser plot delivery, your mileage may vary.

Yes, plus I didn't really like the last couple stories much. Again though, I said I very much enjoyed the game despite its flaws and it overstaying its welcome.

You can tell this thread is full of devotees at this point, because any criticism is treated like heresy. I don't think saying it's a mechanics focused game that gets worse in its second half is a controversial statement anywhere else on the forum.

Who's treating your criticisms like "heresy?"
There are people who disagree with you and enjoy the story, and I disagree with you about time limits (we've already had that discussion), but everyone seems like they're being pretty polite to you.
I certainly agree that the game declines near the end (although it picks up again after the House at the End of Time), and I don't think anyone likes the HotEoT.

Technically, I think Trashos liked the HotEoT, unless I'm misremembering. But he also had his expectations massively lowered by everyone else (since he played the game a bit later) so that might have been part of it.

 

[DalekFlay]

Not saying I liked it really, but I didn't mind HotEoT. It was the finale after that with the endless whatever-they're-calleds and annoying end boss that I was really irritated by.

 

[Desiderius]

Judging from the RT vs TB debate it looks like a shockingly high percentage of people don’t know how to play RTwP as designed (configuring autopause and/or the v button slow time advance). It’s supposed to be akin to TB with simultaneous turns to enhance realism but something gets lost in translation. Add to that the PnPers and MMO tank, spank, and healer tards getting rightfully pwned and it’s a wonder it’s as popular as it is.

But it is, and Wrath is looking spectacular.

My working theory is that a lot of them are autistic and get overwhelmed with visual information so they forget to pause.

I'm probably somewhere on the spectrum myself, which may be why I play exactly inverse* to this comment. The only time I press the space bar is to advance time, not to stop it. My understanding is that this is how these games are intending to be played.

* - think of it as akin to how Westinghouse made passenger train travel possible by reversing the function of the air pressure on the air brake (from applying the brake to releasing it).

 

[Desiderius]

The kingdom management component does stretch things out quite a bit, perhaps a bit too much, and the artisan quests also involve a lot of to-and-fro. Granted, that stuff's not plot filler, but the effect is still the same in that it can dilute a sense of story progression. My first playthrough came in at around 120 hours, if I recall correctly, and I very much enjoyed it but I also wouldn't have objected to a denser plot delivery, your mileage may vary.

Yes, plus I didn't really like the last couple stories much. Again though, I said I very much enjoyed the game despite its flaws and it overstaying its welcome.

You can tell this thread is full of devotees at this point, because any criticism is treated like heresy. I don't think saying it's a mechanics focused game that gets worse in its second half is a controversial statement anywhere else on the forum.

Who's treating your criticisms like "heresy?"
There are people who disagree with you and enjoy the story, and I disagree with you about time limits (we've already had that discussion), but everyone seems like they're being pretty polite to you.
I certainly agree that the game declines near the end (although it picks up again after the House at the End of Time), and I don't think anyone likes the HotEoT.

Technically, I think Trashos liked the HotEoT, unless I'm misremembering. But he also had his expectations massively lowered by everyone else (since he played the game a bit later) so that might have been part of it.

I would love the House were I again 16. I believe the designers were going for a throwback there to the spin teleporters of the early Wizardries which are difficult to re-create with in-game automaps.

 

[Lawntoilet]

I'm probably somewhere on the spectrum myself, which may be why I play exactly inverse* to this comment. The only time I press the space bar is to advance time, not to stop it. My understanding is that this is how these games are intending to be played.

* - think of it as akin to how Westinghouse made passenger train travel possible by reversing the function of the air pressure on the air brake (from applying the brake to releasing it).

Well, the fact that you used a train analogy certainly supports your diagnosis: https://www.autismspeaks.org/expert-opinion/what-it-about-autism-and-trains-0
But for non-trash encounters I agree that is a good method.

 

[Desiderius]

So I had a huge brainfart and I forgot to talk to Jaethal after killing the kobold in sycamore caves.
Then I guess I had a couple of more brainfarts cause I hadn't realized she wasn't showing up in companion selection when you leave Oleg's.
Basically I'm retarded, but uh, can I recruit her now somehow or do I just not get to use her for the rest of the game?

In the prologue you get a choice of Valerie/Harrim (lawful/chaotic) and Linzi/Jaethal (good/evil) dependant on your alignment choices. You have a chance at the Ancient tomb to recruit one of the ones you didn't get via skill check(s). The ones you didn't get will be caged at sycamore, but will not be recruitable until the next chapter whereupon they are automatically recruited.

Nevermind.
Still retarded though. Thought she'd join up after you free her. Oh well, it's been awhile.

Spoiler

FUCK HARRIM

Been there, done exactly that.

 

[Desiderius]

I blame The Witcher.

Yeah, I think the books have never been properly translated and published in English.

Learn Polish. It will help you to understand Russian when Putin conquers you all.

 

[Lawntoilet]

Not saying I liked it really, but I didn't mind HotEoT. It was the finale after that with the endless whatever-they're-calleds and annoying end boss that I was really irritated by.

Now see, once again I have the opposite feeling. I thought the whole final chapter including the Lantern King fight was OK. It still didn't match the earlier game, but I thought it was an improvement after the HotEoT. The Wild Hunt mobs were repetitive but having to deal with the curse gave it a bit more dimension than you got in the House.
I also enjoyed all the callbacks or cameos or whatever you want to call them from the allies you'd made throughout the game, I'm a bit of a sucker for that in games with a somewhat epic scale like this one has.

 

[Desiderius]

I'm probably somewhere on the spectrum myself, which may be why I play exactly inverse* to this comment. The only time I press the space bar is to advance time, not to stop it. My understanding is that this is how these games are intending to be played.

* - think of it as akin to how Westinghouse made passenger train travel possible by reversing the function of the air pressure on the air brake (from applying the brake to releasing it).

Well, the fact that you used a train analogy certainly supports your diagnosis: https://www.autismspeaks.org/expert-opinion/what-it-about-autism-and-trains-0
But for non-trash encounters I agree that is a good method.

It's not a train analogy, it's a Westinghouse analogy. I read all the biographies in the school library growing up and that one was my favorite I think. That one or Kosciusko. My grandfather was very much into trains though, and I manufactured engines for them. His namesake is big into them too.

 

[Desiderius]

So when the air pressure failed the brake shoe stopped the train since the air pressure was used to release it. Before when the air pressure failed bad shit happened.

 

[Lawntoilet]

So when the air pressure failed the brake shoe stopped the train since the air pressure was used to release it. Before when the air pressure failed bad shit happened.

Yes I can believe it. Pretty much like a fail-open vs fail-closed valve I suppose, pick the wrong one for your application and you're in trouble.
A lot of those old-school engineers were pretty interesting characters - I'm not too familiar with Westinghouse but guys like Brunel, the Stephensons, and Diesel stick in my mind.

 

[Trashos]

Technically, I think Trashos liked the HotEoT, unless I'm misremembering. But he also had his expectations massively lowered by everyone else (since he played the game a bit later) so that might have been part of it.

I love HatEoT!
But I treated it like a puzzle, not a warzone. As I showed in my HatEoT guide here:
https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/kingmaker-ch-6-hateot-quick-walkthrough.131439/
it can be done with minimal fighting.

It took me a whole weekend (of great fun!) to come up with the guide, and ever since it takes me about 2 hours to go through HatEoT.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

On the other hand, the House at the End of Time is the set of consequences of player's previous decisions. I think it might be bigger detraction than critics are willing to admit. Responsibility is hard.

But I haven't gone through it on Hard or Unfair yet, so I may be wrong.

The consquence mostly boils down to punishing people who didn't do all the sub-quests. I've gotten all my guys and I barely paid attention to what was going on in half of those.
Suicide Mission in ME2 was basically the same thing but executed much better. Especially since you had some influence at the end over who lives or dies instead of just being informed that the companion will no longer be usable because you didn't do his loyalty mission.

 

[Xamenos]

and I don't think anyone likes the HotEoT.

I actually did. Yes, the trash mobs were repetitive, but who cares about those? It had some fun boss fights (soloing the witch was one of the high points of my first playthrough, and the worm-that-walks was no slouch). The mists, the teleporting, and the two versions of the House, while somewhat annoying, served well as callback to the previous First World segments and created a decent otherworldly atmosphere. And, of course, the companions being scattered and tempted was one of the best instances of CnC seen in an RPG. It is obvious they were inspired by Torment's Fortress of Regrets, and they did much more with that inspiration that anyone else in the past twenty years.

The consquence mostly boils down to punishing people who didn't do all the sub-quests. I've gotten all my guys and I barely paid attention to what was going on in half of those.
Suicide Mission in ME2 was basically the same thing but executed much better. Especially since you had some influence at the end over who lives or dies instead of just being informed that the companion will no longer be usable because you didn't do his loyalty mission.

I really don't understand that sentiment. By this point in the game, you're bound to have a favourite party. Why wouldn't you do the sidequests for the people you take with you at all times? And why would you care about the other people dying if you didn't even care to do their sidequests properly?

 

[DalekFlay]

I'm a bit of a sucker for that in games with a somewhat epic scale like this one has.

I usually think game endings that try to be epic are annoying and repetitive at a point where you're really ready to move on and play something else, but I know others disagree. Wonder what a massive poll on that would find as it's honestly one of my biggest pet peeves, but a lot of people seem to enjoy it.

 

[LannTheStupid]

I usually think game endings that try to be epic are annoying and repetitive at a point where you're really ready to move on and play something else

Why do you keep playing the game you don't like anymore? Spoil the ending on Youtube and "move on" (TM).

Conversely, if people keep playing (and not watching playthroughs) then my guess would be that they actually enjoy the process of playing, a big part of which in Kingmaker is the story. But what do I know about post-BLM Westerners...

 

[DalekFlay]

Why do you keep playing the game you don't like anymore? Spoil the ending on Youtube and "move on" (TM).

When you're that close to the ending of a game you want to finish it for the satisfaction of doing so, obviously. Also you want to see your ending, not some random Youtuber's ending. I find this question kind of baffling honestly.

the process of playing, a big part of which in Kingmaker is the story.

If you say so.

 

[LannTheStupid]

I find compulsion to finish something you don't want to do anymore kind of OCD.

It reminds me of kindergartens in the USSR where children were forced to clear their plates even if they did not want to eat anymore. Some had got serious psychological issues for the rest of their lives.

 

[Sweeper]

It reminds me of kindergartens in the USSR where children were forced to clear their plates even if they did not want to eat anymore. Some had got serious psychological issues for the rest of their lives.

USSR was based as fuck tbh.
Don't let Magnat see this.