Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[gurugeorge]

Web and Entangle are fine in terms of DC, the only thing I find irritating about them is their pointlessly enormous AoE. Unless it's changed, or I wasn't using them properly, I seem to recall that you can only "drop" them from the center of their vast AoEs, which sometimes makes it difficult to get into a position to pull them off usefully. To me, Grease is much more functional and useful in the early game because of its modest AoE.

The lingering timer is also irritating, but that's easily solvable with a Dispel mod, though that should have been in the game from the start.

 

[Max Damage]

That’s my point, this isn’t D&D. It’s rest-limited.

At the point of the game when you can’t cast Slow there’s no reason to have a Wizard/Sorc on the team in the first place since they get so few casts per rest and you’ve got better options for spikes.

I don't know what to say except you have no idea what you're talking about. The fact that you get limited spells per day makes those spell more cost efficient. Wizard/Sorc being pointless until 3rd level spell? The fuck am I reading? Some of the early encounters are more difficult without arcane caster. Do we even play same game?

 

[NJClaw]

The fact that you get limited spells per day makes those spell more cost efficient.

What

what

 

[Xamenos]

That’s my point, this isn’t D&D. It’s rest-limited.

I respect you too much to rate this retarded, but you really need to explain what you mean because it makes no sense.

At the point of the game when you can’t cast Slow there’s no reason to have a Wizard/Sorc on the team in the first place since they get so few casts per rest and you’ve got better options for spikes.

I play with a Wizard main. Grease and Web are excellent for Chapter 1, they can singlehandedly trivialize encounters that would otherwise be far from trivial, like all good control spells do. And I have never had a problem targeting them so they don't hinder my team at all.

 

[Max Damage]

The fact that you get limited spells per day makes those spell more cost efficient.

What

what

Please name me any spells on 1st and 2nd level that you'd rather cast in combat instead. Sleep doesn't work against undead and is pretty limited by enemy health, Color Spray and Burning Hands require your caster to go where his face is more likely to get punched. What would you cast instead for slavers encounter, or for crowds, or anything that's big and strong enough to K.O. your melee stickmen with a punch or two? I only see Create Pit as viable replacement for Web, but it also hides enemies from you.

 

[Desiderius]

If you’re playing a Wiz main you’ve got to cast something so those are fine for the first couple levels. I don’t and don’t use Octavia so don’t end up using them much.

My melee aren’t stickmen.

My last playthrough MC was Grenadier and Val had a Smilodon. Freebooter Amiri charged the caster and Smilo charged the Slaver then the archer while Val tanked the melee with Tower and Plate.

Linzi sang and cast Call/Laughter on meleers and I think Harrim Touch of Chaosed maybe? Precise Bombs vs Touch AC from MC - of course that encounter is one of few without buffs so trickier.

Prior playthrough MC was Ranged Slayer, Val was Bard, Harrim Monster Tactician so had some Summons, and I think Amiri had Pet from Defender of True World.

 

[Max Damage]

You do you, doesn't mean those spells suck though. Especially when they're some of the best ones.

 

[Desiderius]

People who think those spells are great tend to get stuck in a rut and never get to enjoy a lot of the things that make this a great game.

 

[Max Damage]

Or maybe they're not huffing your farts.

 

[NJClaw]

The fact that you get limited spells per day makes those spell more cost efficient.

What

what

Please name me any spells on 1st and 2nd level that you'd rather cast in combat instead. Sleep doesn't work against undead and is pretty limited by enemy health, Color Spray and Burning Hands require your caster to go where his face is more likely to get punched. What would you cast instead for slavers encounter, or for crowds, or anything that's big and strong enough to K.O. your melee stickmen with a punch or two? I only see Create Pit as viable replacement for Web, but it also hides enemies from you.

AAAAAHHHH, more cost efficient than the other spells. I read that as "more cost efficient than themselves". As in "they would be less cost efficient if you had more spells per day".

I should stop playing JRPGs, they are messing with my brain.

 

[Xamenos]

People who think those spells are great tend to get stuck in a rut and never get to enjoy a lot of the things that make this a great game.

These spells are great, even if only for low levels.

 

[The_Mask]

Is Amiri's pet still locked out of the Armag sequence if she's a Druid? Have they fixed that yet?

 

[cloudropis]

Is the new native turn based mode better than the mod?

 

[Desiderius]

People who think those spells are great tend to get stuck in a rut and never get to enjoy a lot of the things that make this a great game.

These spells are great, even if only for low levels.

Guess I'm addicted to doing ch 1 in thirty days. That means not bringing along toons that blow their wad in three fights. I used to use Grease a good bit with Linzi, but most of my damage is ranged and the ranged malus isn't great and I've ended up focusing her on Enchantments (early) and Evocation (late). Web and Entangle both have the Blade Barrier problem of awkward range/AoE combination. As usual overstating the case to get people out of ruts, since ruts lead to BING/Greggz/Porky syndrome.

The ironic thing is that I've got a Deadfire playthrough going built around an Evoker/Arcane Archer who opens every fight with Imbue:Web.

 

[Desiderius]

Is Amiri's pet still locked out of the Armag sequence if she's a Druid? Have they fixed that yet?

Pretty sure first time I won that fight was with pet, but cld be mistaken. As with Val you're probably better off just losing it.

 

[Desiderius]

Or maybe they're not huffing your farts.

What does that even mean?

I've demonstrated how to effectively use nearly a hundred (if not more) of the spells and abilities the game provides in unique and interesting ways that end up making even Unfair low stress. You really enjoy spamming the same low level spells the whole game as they get less and less effective until you end up having to create a P:K is Dogshit thread because you had to empty your whole inventory to defeat a boss that everyone else is complaining about being too easy?

Many such cases.

 

[Desiderius]

That’s my point, this isn’t D&D. It’s rest-limited.

At the point of the game when you can’t cast Slow there’s no reason to have a Wizard/Sorc on the team in the first place since they get so few casts per rest and you’ve got better options for spikes.

I don't know what to say except you have no idea what you're talking about. The fact that you get limited spells per day makes those spell more cost efficient. Wizard/Sorc being pointless until 3rd level spell? The fuck am I reading? Some of the early encounters are more difficult without arcane caster. Do we even play same game?

This is exactly my point. There are all sorts of ways to attack this game but you've chosen one of the weakest (or at least one that will require a good bit of rest spam and reloading at the levels in question) because that's what you're used to doing in other games.

I don't know what game you're playing. I mean I do, it's the same one you've been playing for years.

I'm playing an interesting new game with a variety of unique possibilities to try out. I'm also the one who's been posting pics on this forum for the past year successully owning this game.

Bottom line in this debate is that Linzi does everything your low level Wiz/Sorc is doing while buffing your team at the same time. Pure casters don't really hit their stride until midlevel. I usually have access to Grease and Entangle at least via Bard and some combination of Ranger and Druid but have gotten away from using them in lieu of just Charging shit and killing it.

 

[gurugeorge]

Is the new native turn based mode better than the mod?

It depends on whether you used some of the more esoteric aspects of the mod (the finicky things that people asked for and the modder obliged) heavily or not. If you did then you might not like it, if you didn't, then the new native version does the same bread and butter stuff better than the mod in several ways (e.g. it has a dotted trail to show where you can move, and it's graphically and aurally more appealing, has better information flow and is slightly easier to use, e.g. it's a bit easier to shuffle the order of your troops around).

 

[Herumor]

How many floors does Beneath the Stolen Lands DLC have when playing in rogue-like mode? I've reached floor 50 and so far I've only had the Weary Traveler as an NPC boss.

 

[Xamenos]

People who think those spells are great tend to get stuck in a rut and never get to enjoy a lot of the things that make this a great game.

These spells are great, even if only for low levels.

Guess I'm addicted to doing ch 1 in thirty days. That means not bringing along toons that blow their wad in three fights. I used to use Grease a good bit with Linzi, but most of my damage is ranged and the ranged malus isn't great and I've ended up focusing her on Enchantments (early) and Evocation (late). Web and Entangle both have the Blade Barrier problem of awkward range/AoE combination. As usual overstating the case to get people out of ruts, since ruts lead to BING/Greggz/Porky syndrome.

The ironic thing is that I've got a Deadfire playthrough going built around an Evoker/Arcane Archer who opens every fight with Imbue:Web.

You may have fallen on a rut of your own if you can't see the usefulness of a character that has a few "I win" buttons every day. Linzi can use these spells too, but she has better things to do than being a shitty Conjurer knock-off.

And off course, rest spammers deserve the rope. I've never cared enough to even try to finish chapter 1 in 30 days, but I've comfortably cleared everything with more than 30 days remaining. Unlike later chapters, there's absolutely no point in hurrying there.

 

[NJClaw]

How many floors does Beneath the Stolen Lands DLC have when playing in rogue-like mode?

They don't call it "endless" for nothing.

I've reached floor 50 and so far I've only had the Weary Traveler as an NPC boss.

You only get one boss for each run. You need to start a new game to fight the next one.

 

[Desiderius]

Yeah, I got in a no offensive caster rut for awhile then learned to love the (meta-) nuke.

Grease and Web have for real been as often “I lose” buttons (a significant proportion of my wipes involve them, including Tristian getting stuck in a Grease/Web VTomb stack for long enough to cause all my buffs to expire. I’ve had a hard time getting Entangle to do much at all tbh.

I think I prefer zero burn Slick.

YMMV

 

[Max Damage]

Or maybe they're not huffing your farts.

What does that even mean?

I've demonstrated how to effectively use nearly a hundred (if not more) of the spells and abilities the game provides in unique and interesting ways that end up making even Unfair low stress. You really enjoy spamming the same low level spells the whole game as they get less and less effective until you end up having to create a P:K is Dogshit thread because you had to empty your whole inventory to defeat a boss that everyone else is complaining about being too easy?

Many such cases.

Dude, I don't care if you've got a chip on your shoulder, can you stop twisting words and acting like discount Lilura? There's a big difference between low level spells getting weaker the further you advance and them being useless. Again, play however the fuck you want, just stop spewing retarded shit. You're not a genuis because retards exist, and I'm enjoying the game just fine. Just because you play lots of it doesn't make your words the ultimate wisdom, especially when you sound like clown.

 

[Herumor]

You only get one boss for each run. You need to start a new game to fight the next one.

As in, from scratch? New main character and whole new party as well? That's gonna be fun.

 

[Desiderius]

Main point being pure casters are notoriously weak early and an aspect of the design easily missed is that no one is making you keep a set party, unlike for instance BG where non-active companions don’t get EXP.

Also Lord Protector is +2 so not awful and the anti-charm clause helps prevent a rare but deadly fail case.