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Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

Discussion in 'Owlcat Games' started by Elex, Nov 20, 2018.

  1. Haplo Cipher Patron

    Haplo
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    Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    That and Might & Magic VI+
     
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  2. Grunker RPG Codex Ghost Patron

    Grunker
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    but that's one of the few series in which it works ok (m&m, not arcanum, obv)
     
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  3. Desiderius Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard Patron

    Desiderius
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    Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    I keep coming back to the real time poison ticking in TB Wizards and Warriors. What a nightmare.
     
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  4. Erebus Arcane

    Erebus
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    Just finished Armag's Tomb again. I'd forgotten how repetitive it is. Fortunately, Deadly Earth makes most of the dungeon's encounters considerably easier.

    I'd also forgotten how tough Armag is... and the fact that he's immune to Magic Missile. Without Kanerah (who inflicted at least two thirds of the damage it took to kill him), I definitely wouldn't have won the fight on my first try.
     
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  5. Grunker RPG Codex Ghost Patron

    Grunker
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    wut. Armag is the defining turning point for me where the game gets irrevocably too easy, and I've avoided using Deadly Earth precisely because the game is already easy enough by the time you get access to it. It starts with Vordekai and by Armag we're deep into the easyness.

    The enemies of his tomb are more of a threat than he is, so I also don't agree it feels repetitive.
     
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  6. Desiderius Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard Patron

    Desiderius
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    Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    But you haven’t tried to clear the whole game using Magic Missile.
     
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  7. Erebus Arcane

    Erebus
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    Fighting spectres, skeletons and clerics of Gorum gets really tiresome after a while. I didn't find them to be much of a threat this time, and mostly used Deadly Earth out of laziness.

    Regarding the fight against Armag, it's likely that I was rather careless. In fact, my carelessness goes back to the moment when I entered the tomb, as I'd neglected to memorize the spells most likely to be useful in this dungeon. Obviously, I could have taken the time to rest inside the tomb, but it didn't feel very sporting.

    Anyway, the fight went pretty much like this :

    Okay guys, we're against Armag and a handful of undead, we can take them. Valerie, you're the tank, you delay Armag. Kanerah, fire at will. Harrim and Jaethal, summon skeletons to act as fodder. I'll use Chain Lightning to get rid of the undead. Amiri, you wait here and... okay, Armag's ignoring Valerie and charging straight at Amiri. You can do it, Amiri ! Well, I'm pretty sure you can't, but at least you... never mind, you're already dead. Good thing the skeletons are here. Keep Armag busy while I shove a few empowered Magic Missiles up his ass... he's immune to Magic Missile. Well, at least he's now aiming for Valerie, she should be able to survive a bit longer, no ? Chain Lightning ! Okay, Armag just killed Valerie. I don't think that any of my fighters has managed to hit him even once. Good thing Kanerah targets touch AC. Jaethal, maybe you can.... okay, you're down as well, and your skeletons are unsummoned. More skeletons, Harrim ! Maybe I can paralyze this fucker or at least... no, it's not going to work, his saves are much too good. Shit, I have a bajillion spells in mind and almost none of them can do anything to him. I'm the most unprepared wizard ever. Harrim, use Boneshatter on him and then... I don't know, man, just stand there. I'll use my last Chain Lightning. Okay, I have no useful spell left, but he's seriously wounded, maybe we can still win this before he butchers the rest of my skeletons, kill him, Kanerah, kill him, Kanerah, kill him, kill him, kiilll hiiiiimmm !!!
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2021
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  8. Haplo Cipher Patron

    Haplo
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    Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    His saves are good? Certainly not his will.
    I think my Phantasmal Web got him on 1st try.

    He MIGHT be immune to something. But in general he's a plaything for your casters. However trying to fight something at that level using magic missile sounds like a really shitty idea.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2021
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  9. Erebus Arcane

    Erebus
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    The spells I'd chosen to memorize were clearly not the most appropriate for the dungeon, and when things started going south, I'm pretty sure that I forgot to use even some of the stuff that could have been useful.

    As for Magic Missile, I still find it sometimes useful against enemies with very high AC. It's not enough to defeat them, obviously, but it can whittle down their HP if the fight lasts for a while. (Yes, I realize that it's pretty sad to have a 13th-level wizard use a 1st-level spell repeatedly in a boss battle.)
     
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  10. Xamenos Cipher Patron

    Xamenos
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    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Heh. I played once with a guy who was always like this, ill-prepared and panicking. We used to joke his wizard had an intelligence of 25(7). Good times, good times.
     
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  11. Haplo Cipher Patron

    Haplo
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    Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    Does he have high AC, though? I don't think so.
    Ray spells would do considerably more damage then Magic Missile. But the best solution is CC, of course.
     
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  12. Desiderius Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard Patron

    Desiderius
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    Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Reflex is weakest save but by then you can easily burn him down as well. Unless you’re casting Magic Missiles.

    Magic Missile is sadly suboptimal at every point in the game, and it’s not particularly close.

    I’ve used it on Psychic with Toppling Metamagic in CotW but there’s no reason to ever use it in Vanilla.

    This is what I was talking about people getting stuck spamming first level spells throughout the game. Don’t do dis.

    ArmagBonesBeast.jpg

    It is not however the weakest save of the Bloody Bones Beasts. Think I saw that this was a bug and recently fixed.

    LinziBard13Sorc1HoldonArmag.jpg

    I wouldn't say Will is his weak save. I'm sure Linzi's missing something here to only have 26 DC (she's Bard13/FaeSorc1 for Compulsion DC) but hey better lucky than good.

    Jae14Inqonarmag.jpg

    You don't have to waste time during the fight summoning. That can be done ahead of time. Jae has better things to do during the fight.

    Linzi13Bigskillcheck.jpg

    Of course this is what you're really looking for in Armag's Tomb. Busted EXP.

    MC Grenadier15trickery.jpg

    And the best Light Armor in the game. Grenadier MC getting the Trickery up to Unfair lvls with Tristian's help.

    MCGrenadierHoggingTirckeryExperience.jpg

    Letting him hog some more of that sweet, sweet EXP.

    Jae13InqSecretDoors.jpg

    Jae's Perception making sure nothing is missed.

    Armag Loot.jpg

    MoreArmag Loot.jpg

    Loot here is outstanding, unfortunately gated behind checks that I'd imagine the haters will miss.

    MCGrenadier15DeadlyAimdamageonbombs.jpg

    Don't forget to use Deadly Aim for extra Bomb damage since you're targeting Touch AC anyway. Amazing that it took me this long to figure that out.

    Jae13Inqowning Devourer.jpg

    Probably a harder fight than Armag if you run into the trap.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2021
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  13. Desiderius Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard Patron

    Desiderius
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    Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    As with most bosses, tanking isn’t really a thing with Armag. By design. Just make your melee resilient. No need for toothless tanks.

    He’s right that the foe variety in this tomb is unimaginative and somewhat repetitive. The fact that you’ve got options in this game to dominate any foe ends up being sort of a drawback.

    If you knew that some attrition was inevitable then you’d have an interesting puzzle to solve to manage it, especially if each dungeon attacked a different angle. Alternatively you could have more of a story involved in where the Bloody Bones Beast came from or who those Clerics were and why they were there.
     
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  14. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
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    RPG Wokedex Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Kingmaker
     
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  15. Chippy Arcane

    Chippy
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    Last time I checked, this was still the 'Enhanced Edition' yet now it's got a plus on it. Quick search gave me an answer on Steam that it has added gamepad support, TB, broke mods, and introduced new bugs.

    :negative:

    THis was an answer from back in Sept. Is it still true?.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2021
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  16. Mangoose Arcane Patron

    Mangoose
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    Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity
    Okay, I really want to play this because lately I've been searching out PnP classes/kits to mod into Baldur's Gate (for my own play). So I cam across d20pfsrd. I'm aware of D&D's srd.dndtools.org, and I'm very familiar with 3E/3.5E but never knew much about Pathfinder besides it being a branched improvement of 3.5E.

    Then I saw the "Base Classes." Okay, I have to admit, I've been looking for a Gish to use as a template. 1d4chan pointed me towards 2e Bladesinger (HAHAHA JUST KIDDING).. D&D's Duskblade.. and PF's Magus.

    AND THE MAGUS IS SO COOL. Duskblade pretty good too - but the mechanics are similar enough that the Magus feels like the Duskblade being able to Quickcast at-will (instead of X/day) via Spell Combat.

    My only concern - yes, maybe only - is reading about there being too many filler combat encounters. I played enough JRPGs to hate excess combat. Hell, I fall asleep during WoW raids when we have to deal with trash mobs between bosses.

    ANYWAYS... From 1 to 10 (where 1 means shitty and 10 means less shitty), how shitty is the excess combat?
     
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  17. Seari Cipher Patron

    Seari
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    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    If you don't enjoy combat, don't play this game.
     
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  18. Yosharian Magister

    Yosharian
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    The 'filler' combat as you call it represents a significant amount of the game's combat, that's why my builds are mostly physical damage dealers that can cut through those encounters quickly and easily without expending spells.

    Then I have the Bard and Sorcerer to destroy boss fights and other key encounters.
     
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  19. Yosharian Magister

    Yosharian
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    I'm not quite sure what you're asking but the last update did break a lot of mods. Most of them have been updated in some form or another. All the mods I list on my steam page are updated for the current version.

    I personally haven't noticed any bugs in the current version.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2021
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  20. InD_ImaginE Arcane Patron

    InD_ImaginE
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    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    If you are willing to play the game on RtwP then it's honestly a breeze, most encounters last like 10 - 15 seconds. Heck arguably after the first chapter if you know what you are doing most boss or optional hard fight should be at least 2 - 5 minutes top, even on Hard.

    If you are hardcore ONLY TB OR BUST you can multiply those times by I dunno, 10 - 15 times. So each trash mob would probably require 2 - 3 minutes.

    And yes, there is a lot of combat. The game is notoriously long, if you are a completionist it would probably take 100+ hours on RtwP and much of that time will be spent on Combat.

    By your estimation I dunno, on RtwP it feels like 7? 8? It is fast enough not to make you feels annoyed.

    On TB I would say 4 or 5.
     
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  21. Mangoose Arcane Patron

    Mangoose
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    LOL. I forgot it's RTwP. I wonder if the TB mod has an option to enable/disable. I could just mindlessly let the AI do RTWP while I alt tab lol.
     
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  22. Lawntoilet Cipher

    Lawntoilet
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    You can switch between TB and RTwP any time, it's just a button.
     
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  23. Mangoose Arcane Patron

    Mangoose
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    Thanks guys.
     
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  24. Desiderius Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard Patron

    Desiderius
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    Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    The game is not for the mindless.

    There are no trash fights if you’re playing on the appropriate difficulty. Time is the game’s most valuable resource which makes rest a cost, so you’re always balancing per rest abilities vs risk posed by each fight.

    People who come in trying to play it like an MMO often get into a rut where they’re resting/traveling a lot and end up gimping their Kingdom Management and since most of the good items are gated behind KM end up struggling then talking about endless (read too long/hard) trash fights.

    If you find a good groove everything goes fast.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2021
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  25. Mangoose Arcane Patron

    Mangoose
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    Oh that's fine for me. I dislike mindless combat and it makes me sleepy.
     
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