Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[The_Mask]

How do you like your eggs in the morning?

Spoiler

NE is for people who like the weight nicely centered in the carton, but also hate everyone else who wants that.

 

[santino27]

Honestly, the fact that the number of eggs changes from alignment to alignment bothers me far too much for me to try to understand why some of the formations are the way they are. Whoever drew this is probably chaotic neutral.

 

[Delterius]

^lawful neutral detected

 

[Desiderius]

Honestly, the fact that the number of eggs changes from alignment to alignment bothers me far too much for me to try to understand why some of the formations are the way they are. Whoever drew this is probably chaotic neutral.

This where you really miss the ontological axis.

XKCD has gone pretty Nihilist.

 

[Nano]

I hope they add more divination spells in wrath. I want to play a diviner mostly for the initiative.

They'd have to either create their own homebrew spells or move existing spells from other schools into Divination. I looked at PF's spell list and there's not a lot of Divination spells that fit in a computer game.

 

[Desiderius]

There are barely enough to be interesting, but definitely not as fleshed out as the other Schools.

I wouldn't mind having more adventuring/skill specific spells.

 

[LannTheStupid]

I think as the result of grafting and exposure to American politics there are particles of InEffect growing in the body of Desiderius. As per Трофим Денисович Лысенко.

 

[Darkzone]

You can do RTwP and TB mode in the same game and even change easy between them while running a game and this even in combat.

Since Arcanum, Americans are no longer allowed to put both RTwP and TB in the same game. Sorry for the inconvenience.

yeah, arcanum is why i used to think that was a bad idea

I've bin fighting the people here on this topic the entire time pre TB/RTwP Kingmaker EE. But now this is a topic that has been settled by evidence to my favor. It is exactly what i have expected and even better due to the ability to change the RTwP/TB mode during combat (i think i have suggested it, but i had it not always on my mind). So being right let me, instead of bashing people on the head state with it, just simply state: Please enjoy it, like i do. And please demand now this as a standard for future isometric RPGs.
I play mostly in TB mode, but the trash mobs encounters i do let them handle by the AI scripts, in the RTwP mode. Therefore let me name a very useful example for the TB/RTwP switch during combat:
In one of the road coincidental encounters i have meet with my party a trash mob of Goblins, that were squezed by Conan and Amiri within two rounds, besides one hidden Goblin that remained invisible. Instead of searching him like a retard by sending people in all directions with a high Perception skill, i just switched to RTwP and within 10 seconds i have found and killed him.
So going with this topic i have also to praise the convenient adjustable functionalities like the RTwP functionality. This is a very good standard and Owlcat deserves all the praise for it, if not more. The only point of pain is the Unity engine.
Vault Dweller and his minions have done a smart decision to switch to Unreal instead of Unity.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Conan

 

[Desiderius]

RTwP DNE AI Scripts

There are people who can configure an autopause and/or advance time button and control their own toons even while mobs get to move too.

Why are all TB people such retards? Yes, it is great that retards and intelligent people can enjoy the same game now. Totally agree Darkzone.

 

[Desiderius]

I think as the result of grafting and exposure to American politics there are particles of InEffect growing in the body of Desiderius. As per Трофим Денисович Лысенко.

Politics is the least of our problems. In the out of control tire fire that passes for our intellectual class Lysenkoism would get you cancelled for being too reactionary.

 

[Haplo]

You can do RTwP and TB mode in the same game and even change easy between them while running a game and this even in combat.

Since Arcanum, Americans are no longer allowed to put both RTwP and TB in the same game.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

yeah, arcanum is why i used to think that was a bad idea

That and Might & Magic VI+

 

[Grunker]

You can do RTwP and TB mode in the same game and even change easy between them while running a game and this even in combat.

Since Arcanum, Americans are no longer allowed to put both RTwP and TB in the same game.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

yeah, arcanum is why i used to think that was a bad idea

That and Might & Magic VI+

but that's one of the few series in which it works ok (m&m, not arcanum, obv)

 

[Desiderius]

I keep coming back to the real time poison ticking in TB Wizards and Warriors. What a nightmare.

 

[Erebus]

Just finished Armag's Tomb again. I'd forgotten how repetitive it is. Fortunately, Deadly Earth makes most of the dungeon's encounters considerably easier.

I'd also forgotten how tough Armag is... and the fact that he's immune to Magic Missile. Without Kanerah (who inflicted at least two thirds of the damage it took to kill him), I definitely wouldn't have won the fight on my first try.

 

[Grunker]

Just finished Armag's Tomb again. I'd forgotten how repetitive it is. Fortunately, Deadly Earth makes most of the dungeon's encounters considerably easier.

I'd also forgotten how tough Armag is... and the fact that he's immune to Magic Missile. Without Kanerah (who inflicted at least two thirds of the damage it took to kill him), I definitely wouldn't have won the fight on my first try.

wut. Armag is the defining turning point for me where the game gets irrevocably too easy, and I've avoided using Deadly Earth precisely because the game is already easy enough by the time you get access to it. It starts with Vordekai and by Armag we're deep into the easyness.

The enemies of his tomb are more of a threat than he is, so I also don't agree it feels repetitive.

 

[Desiderius]

But you haven’t tried to clear the whole game using Magic Missile.

 

[Erebus]

wut. Armag is the defining turning point for me where the game gets irrevocably too easy, and I've avoided using Deadly Earth precisely because the game is already easy enough by the time you get access to it. It starts with Vordekai and by Armag we're deep into the easyness.

The enemies of his tomb are more of a threat than he is, so I also don't agree it feels repetitive.

Fighting spectres, skeletons and clerics of Gorum gets really tiresome after a while. I didn't find them to be much of a threat this time, and mostly used Deadly Earth out of laziness.

Regarding the fight against Armag, it's likely that I was rather careless. In fact, my carelessness goes back to the moment when I entered the tomb, as I'd neglected to memorize the spells most likely to be useful in this dungeon. Obviously, I could have taken the time to rest inside the tomb, but it didn't feel very sporting.

Anyway, the fight went pretty much like this :

Okay guys, we're against Armag and a handful of undead, we can take them. Valerie, you're the tank, you delay Armag. Kanerah, fire at will. Harrim and Jaethal, summon skeletons to act as fodder. I'll use Chain Lightning to get rid of the undead. Amiri, you wait here and... okay, Armag's ignoring Valerie and charging straight at Amiri. You can do it, Amiri ! Well, I'm pretty sure you can't, but at least you... never mind, you're already dead. Good thing the skeletons are here. Keep Armag busy while I shove a few empowered Magic Missiles up his ass... he's immune to Magic Missile. Well, at least he's now aiming for Valerie, she should be able to survive a bit longer, no ? Chain Lightning ! Okay, Armag just killed Valerie. I don't think that any of my fighters has managed to hit him even once. Good thing Kanerah targets touch AC. Jaethal, maybe you can.... okay, you're down as well, and your skeletons are unsummoned. More skeletons, Harrim ! Maybe I can paralyze this fucker or at least... no, it's not going to work, his saves are much too good. Shit, I have a bajillion spells in mind and almost none of them can do anything to him. I'm the most unprepared wizard ever. Harrim, use Boneshatter on him and then... I don't know, man, just stand there. I'll use my last Chain Lightning. Okay, I have no useful spell left, but he's seriously wounded, maybe we can still win this before he butchers the rest of my skeletons, kill him, Kanerah, kill him, Kanerah, kill him, kill him, kiilll hiiiiimmm !!!

 

[Haplo]

His saves are good? Certainly not his will.
I think my Phantasmal Web got him on 1st try.

He MIGHT be immune to something. But in general he's a plaything for your casters. However trying to fight something at that level using magic missile sounds like a really shitty idea.

 

[Erebus]

His saves are good? Certainly not his will.
I think my Phantasmal Web got him on 1st try.

He MIGHT be immune to something. But in general he's a plaything for your casters. However trying to fight something at that level using magic missile sounds like a really shitty idea.

The spells I'd chosen to memorize were clearly not the most appropriate for the dungeon, and when things started going south, I'm pretty sure that I forgot to use even some of the stuff that could have been useful.

As for Magic Missile, I still find it sometimes useful against enemies with very high AC. It's not enough to defeat them, obviously, but it can whittle down their HP if the fight lasts for a while. (Yes, I realize that it's pretty sad to have a 13th-level wizard use a 1st-level spell repeatedly in a boss battle.)

 

[Xamenos]

His saves are good? Certainly not his will.
I think my Phantasmal Web got him on 1st try.

He MIGHT be immune to something. But in general he's a plaything for your casters. However trying to fight something at that level using magic missile sounds like a really shitty idea.

The spells I'd chosen to memorize were clearly not the most appropriate for the dungeon, and when things started going south, I'm pretty sure that I forgot to use even some of the stuff that could have been useful.

As for Magic Missile, I still find it sometimes useful against enemies with very high AC. It's not enough to defeat them, obviously, but it can whittle down their HP if the fight lasts for a while. (Yes, I realize that it's pretty sad to have a 13th-level wizard use a 1st-level spell repeatedly in a boss battle.)

Heh. I played once with a guy who was always like this, ill-prepared and panicking. We used to joke his wizard had an intelligence of 25(7). Good times, good times.

 

[Haplo]

Does he have high AC, though? I don't think so.
Ray spells would do considerably more damage then Magic Missile. But the best solution is CC, of course.

 

[Desiderius]

Reflex is weakest save but by then you can easily burn him down as well. Unless you’re casting Magic Missiles.

Magic Missile is sadly suboptimal at every point in the game, and it’s not particularly close.

I’ve used it on Psychic with Toppling Metamagic in CotW but there’s no reason to ever use it in Vanilla.

This is what I was talking about people getting stuck spamming first level spells throughout the game. Don’t do dis.

It is not however the weakest save of the Bloody Bones Beasts. Think I saw that this was a bug and recently fixed.

I wouldn't say Will is his weak save. I'm sure Linzi's missing something here to only have 26 DC (she's Bard13/FaeSorc1 for Compulsion DC) but hey better lucky than good.

You don't have to waste time during the fight summoning. That can be done ahead of time. Jae has better things to do during the fight.

Of course this is what you're really looking for in Armag's Tomb. Busted EXP.

And the best Light Armor in the game. Grenadier MC getting the Trickery up to Unfair lvls with Tristian's help.

Letting him hog some more of that sweet, sweet EXP.

Jae's Perception making sure nothing is missed.

Loot here is outstanding, unfortunately gated behind checks that I'd imagine the haters will miss.

Don't forget to use Deadly Aim for extra Bomb damage since you're targeting Touch AC anyway. Amazing that it took me this long to figure that out.

Probably a harder fight than Armag if you run into the trap.

 

[Desiderius]

As with most bosses, tanking isn’t really a thing with Armag. By design. Just make your melee resilient. No need for toothless tanks.

He’s right that the foe variety in this tomb is unimaginative and somewhat repetitive. The fact that you’ve got options in this game to dominate any foe ends up being sort of a drawback.

If you knew that some attrition was inevitable then you’d have an interesting puzzle to solve to manage it, especially if each dungeon attacked a different angle. Alternatively you could have more of a story involved in where the Bloody Bones Beast came from or who those Clerics were and why they were there.

 

[Infinitron]