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Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

Mangoose

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Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity
Just kidding about the Mindblade - its actual use is to make you feel stupid when you forget to manifest a weapon.

Edit: Okay so on a serious note, quick eval of the Mindblade
- Spontaneous casting
- Your normal magus spells are cast as psychic instead of arcane. You also get to pull a few spells from the Psychic spell list.
- However, psychic casting requires "emotion" and "thought" components (instead of somatic/verbal/material) which means if you get a mind-affecting effect, you can't cast.
- Psychic casting also increases the spell concentration checks by DC10.
- There are traits (Sound of Mind) and feats (Combat Casting) to mitigate those issues. But you do want to have a high Intelligence even if you are melee because your casting stat affects your concentration check. You also do not want to dump Wisdom as you don't want to fail a mind-affecting save.
- There is no psychic spellcasting failure in armor, though on the other hand the Mindblade doesn't provide Med. or Heavy Armor. Then again, with a 1 level dip in a class with armor, then you can be in Heavy Armor at level 2 if you want to go STR. So your choice here is (A) the typical Dex build that pays the Finesse-Dervish feat tax or (B) a STR build that loses 1-2 levels of class progression in return for extra feats if you go Fighter, or Barb/Bloodrager for faster movement speed in armor.

- Weapon manifesting
- Manifest ANY weapon in which you have proficiency in one OR both hands. So you can TWF and you can THF and you can polearm lol. The advantage of two-handed fighting is that you'll do more damage any time you can't use iteratives (e.g. moving and attacking, attacks of opportunity). The benefit of TWF... is more attacks I guess? lol. Well if you use a touch spell with multiple charges (e.g. Chill Touch, Frigid Touch) the more hits the better.
- Manifesting weapons temporarily points from the pool. They return when you de-manifest. In fact, you choose the enchantments (elem damage/keen/etc) of the weapon before you manifest, so enchantments are included in the temporary cost. You don't need to pay extra to enchant but at the same time you cannot enchant a non-psychic weapon.
- Other benefits... It's a little bit of color/variety and you don't need to buy a weapon.

Besides that it's mostly a spontaneous side-grade to the regular Magus.

Now, compared to the Eldritch Scion:
- The Mindblade has less of a need for extra pool point feats/favored class bonuses because you're not relying on the Scion's "Mystical Focus" (non-rage rage mode). And, as above, your enchantments return their pool points when you de-manifest.
- Mindblade uses INT, Scion uses CHA, that's pretty even because neither provides saving throws. Well, I suppose that the Scion will have better CHA-based skill checks, whereas the Mindblade will have more skills but crappier on Persuasion (though you can grab "bruising bully.")
- All of the above rules on psychic casting vs. arcane casting.

---

I read this ingenious idea of 2 levels of Arrowsong Minstrel with the rest as Skald (and maybe 2-3 levels of Arcane Archer). Note that the Arrowsong Minstrel's Precise Shot ignores soft cover from whatever your song effects and the Skald's songs are equivalent to Baldic Performances. I'm using a Court Poet, so all my party can cast AND gets Greater Beast Totem for a Pounce.

You should be able to do the same with the Urban Skald but whatever, I'm happy with a Pounce Party and my melee can make use of casting buffs anyway. I'm not sure what STR/DEX/CON skills the Court Poet prevents.. I can move/charge and attack as normal. Maybe combat maneuvers would be disabled but I haven't checked.

Actually I stacked Court Poet with Red Tongue, which means I lose most of my Versatile Performances in return for a few Rogue talents. Given that I have three skill monkeys already... Good stuff.
 
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Nikanuur

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Nice evening at the camping fireplace somewhere western Narlmarches
Linzi (the capricious halfling): Hey Miri, what are you thinking about?
Miri (she-barbarian): Eeeehh... if you tear the legs off of a halfling, would she be a quaterling?
 
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Nikanuur

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So, I've been running the kingdom for a few months now, and I realized I don't have Harrim and Jaethal. Searching various locations, I found them at the Sycamore caves. Harrim was strangely running through the corridor saying something about being free and then dissappeared. Which is even stranger because I've found him again at the place where he and Jaethal had been caged. Another conversation meant he's gone from the screen, saying we'll meet again. Jaethal just stands there, only one dialogue option is possible with her and it means ending the conversation. She says: "Strike it out, let's move on." but she's stuck by the door. I wonder if this is a bug. She's not recruitable anymore. I don't think I've told her "I don't want to see you ever again". It's just sad, I can't recruite her. Some people say, not having Jaethal means broken game - cuz there is some dungeon in the main story, where you must have her in party. Is that true?
 

Yosharian

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So, I've been running the kingdom for a few months now, and I realized I don't have Harrim and Jaethal. Searching various locations, I found them at the Sycamore caves. Harrim was strangely running through the corridor saying something about being free and then dissappeared. Which is even stranger because I've found him again at the place where he and Jaethal had been caged. Another conversation meant he's gone from the screen, saying we'll meet again. Jaethal just stands there, only one dialogue option is possible with her and it means ending the conversation. She says: "Strike it out, let's move on." but she's stuck by the door. I wonder if this is a bug. She's not recruitable anymore. I don't think I've told her "I don't want to see you ever again". It's just sad, I can't recruite her. Some people say, not having Jaethal means broken game - cuz there is some dungeon in the main story, where you must have her in party. Is that true?
Oooh this sounds bad. I'm not sure if you'll get stuck later.

You're supposed to pick them up as you adventure around that area because they chose to go with Tartuccio but he turned out to be a bad choice, not sure how you didn't see them or talk to them as you went through those areas?
 

Nikanuur

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So, I've been running the kingdom for a few months now, and I realized I don't have Harrim and Jaethal. Searching various locations, I found them at the Sycamore caves. Harrim was strangely running through the corridor saying something about being free and then dissappeared. Which is even stranger because I've found him again at the place where he and Jaethal had been caged. Another conversation meant he's gone from the screen, saying we'll meet again. Jaethal just stands there, only one dialogue option is possible with her and it means ending the conversation. She says: "Strike it out, let's move on." but she's stuck by the door. I wonder if this is a bug. She's not recruitable anymore. I don't think I've told her "I don't want to see you ever again". It's just sad, I can't recruite her. Some people say, not having Jaethal means broken game - cuz there is some dungeon in the main story, where you must have her in party. Is that true?
Oooh this sounds bad. I'm not sure if you'll get stuck later.

You're supposed to pick them up as you adventure around that area because they chose to go with Tartuccio but he turned out to be a bad choice, not sure how you didn't see them or talk to them as you went through those areas?
You see, during the first test run-through, Tartuccio had been present at the Ancient Tomb and I have convinced Jaethal to follow me. She was in my party even before Sycamore.

With this one, the main run-through, I haven't even encountered Jaethal, nor Harrim, nor Tartuccio in the Ancient Tomb. Only after fighting the kobold king in the Sycamore Caves, I saw Jaethal and Harrim in the cages. I set them free and they ran off. Then they were to be found at Oleg's (at least Jaethal was) saying always "Not now" or some such message. Non-recruitable. So I thought I'd gather them up later. To my dismay, after becoming the baron, they were neither at Oleg's nor at the barony. It occured to me to check upon the Sycamore Caves. And they were there ...again... saying something about them working to get free while I had been fighting kobolds (...?). Harrim dissapeared completely (hopefully he's to be found), Jaethal is stuck at the door with only one conversational option, see above.

Actually now that I've written everything down and started to remember thanks to your reaction, I now see it is definitely a bug. Damn.
 
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Xamenos

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You see, first run-through, I went to the Ancient Tomb and I've met them there and I ended up having Jaethal in party even before Sycamore. With this one, main run-through, I haven't even encountered Jaethal, nor Harrim, nor Tartuccio in the Ancient Tomb. After fighting the kobold king in the Sycamore Caves, I saw Jaethal and Harrim in the cages. I set them free and they ran off. Then they were to be found at Oleg's (at least Jaethal was) saying always "Not now" or some such message. So I thought I'd gather them up later. To my dismay, after getting the kindgom they weren't at Oleg's nor anywhere. It occured to me to check upon Sycamore. And they were there ...again... acting like being freed for the first time but with less conversational options O.O

Well, actually now that I've written everything down and started to remember thanks to your reaction, I now see it is definitely a bug. Damn.
During chapter 1, if you head to Kressle before you head to the Ancient Tomb then Tartuccio finishes and leaves, and you miss out on the chance to recruit one of the people he took with him during chapter 1. You're then supposed to save them from their cages, but they'll be too injured to help you before you found the kingdom. You should be able to meet then at you capital after. Sounds like a bug, yeah.
 

Nikanuur

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You see, first run-through, I went to the Ancient Tomb and I've met them there and I ended up having Jaethal in party even before Sycamore. With this one, main run-through, I haven't even encountered Jaethal, nor Harrim, nor Tartuccio in the Ancient Tomb. After fighting the kobold king in the Sycamore Caves, I saw Jaethal and Harrim in the cages. I set them free and they ran off. Then they were to be found at Oleg's (at least Jaethal was) saying always "Not now" or some such message. So I thought I'd gather them up later. To my dismay, after getting the kindgom they weren't at Oleg's nor anywhere. It occured to me to check upon Sycamore. And they were there ...again... acting like being freed for the first time but with less conversational options O.O

Well, actually now that I've written everything down and started to remember thanks to your reaction, I now see it is definitely a bug. Damn.
During chapter 1, if you head to Kressle before you head to the Ancient Tomb then Tartuccio finishes and leaves, and you miss out on the chance to recruit one of the people he took with him during chapter 1. You're then supposed to save them from their cages, but they'll be too injured to help you before you found the kingdom. You should be able to meet then at you capital after. Sounds like a bug, yeah.
Yep, sounds about right. I vaguely recall doing this. Also, I've visited the Elk Temple very soon this time. Found Tristian fighting a bear treant and recruited him. Maybe I've destroyed the game :D I've read he's supposed to be too injured to join the party in chapter 1 as well.
 

Xamenos

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I've read he's supposed to be too injured to join the party in chapter 1 as well.
Depends on the order you do things, again. I don't remember for sure, but I think going to the Sycamore before going for him is what triggers his injury. Going Ancient Tomb -> Kressle -> Elk Temple is the optimal path for companion recruiting.
 

Desiderius

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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
The choice between Tomb and Ford is the choice between Tristian or Harrim. The one you don’t choose will have to wait for you at Olegs until chapter two. You can get both by choosing Harrim over Val at the beginning.

Not sure about Jae. I also had a playthrough where she wasn’t available but not sure if I even freed her from her cage.
 

Xamenos

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Pathfinder: Wrath
The choice between Tomb and Ford is the choice between Tristian or Harrim. The one you don’t choose will have to wait for you at Olegs until chapter two. You can get both by choosing Harrim over Val at the beginning.

Not sure about Jae. I also had a playthrough where she wasn’t available but not sure if I even freed her from her cage.
No, this is false. First you get the choice of going after Kressle or going after Tartuccio in the Tomb. If you go after Kressle, you meet whatshisname and talk to him but Tartuccio moves on. If you go to the Tomb first, you have the chance to recruit one of the two people that went with him.

After you visit both locations, you have the choice to go to the Temple that Jhod tells you about or to go after Tartuccio in the Sycamore. If you go to the Temple first, you recruit Tristian and I don't remember anything bad in the Sycamore. If you go at the Sycamore first, Tristian gets wounded and will join you on Chapter 2.

Edit: Whoever you don't recruit at the Tomb will stay at the cage and will join you for Chapter 2. That will be both the people who went with Tartuccio if you recruited neither.

Choosing Harrim over Val doesn't affect anything.
 

Stavrophore

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Playing this on challenging with turn based mode. It's quite obvious that turn based mode is not a great idea, considering the amount of trash mobs that also happen during interruptions and while camping/traveling. Therefore i've been switching between two modes, TB is better for harder fights, since companion AI is nonexistent.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Choosing Harrim over Val puts Val in the Tomb/Cage.

Yes, you’re right about Ford moving Tart, always just continued from Ford to Hut to Temple if I went that way (only did once or twice).
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Playing this on challenging with turn based mode. It's quite obvious that turn based mode is not a great idea, considering the amount of trash mobs that also happen during interruptions and while camping/traveling. Therefore i've been switching between two modes, TB is better for harder fights, since companion AI is nonexistent.

There are no trash mobs if you’re in the right place with the right tactics. If you want to let AI play the game watch Twitch.

Even in RTwP all you have to do is set pause at end of round and give instructions once per round - this is how you learn to play the classes.

Git gud.
 

Stavrophore

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Playing this on challenging with turn based mode. It's quite obvious that turn based mode is not a great idea, considering the amount of trash mobs that also happen during interruptions and while camping/traveling. Therefore i've been switching between two modes, TB is better for harder fights, since companion AI is nonexistent.

There are no trash mobs if you’re in the right place with the right tactics. If you want to let AI play the game watch Twitch.

Even in RTwP all you have to do is set pause at end of round and give instructions once per round - this is how you learn to play the classes.

Git gud.

I have no problem with difficulty i have problem with the game wasting my time if i want to play the game in mode that i desire to play -Turn Based.

The game is overall pretty mediocre, so will see how long i will endure it.
 

Nikanuur

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The choice between Tomb and Ford is the choice between Tristian or Harrim. The one you don’t choose will have to wait for you at Olegs until chapter two. You can get both by choosing Harrim over Val at the beginning.

Not sure about Jae. I also had a playthrough where she wasn’t available but not sure if I even freed her from her cage.
No, this is false. First you get the choice of going after Kressle or going after Tartuccio in the Tomb. If you go after Kressle, you meet whatshisname and talk to him but Tartuccio moves on. If you go to the Tomb first, you have the chance to recruit one of the two people that went with him.

After you visit both locations, you have the choice to go to the Temple that Jhod tells you about or to go after Tartuccio in the Sycamore. If you go to the Temple first, you recruit Tristian and I don't remember anything bad in the Sycamore. If you go at the Sycamore first, Tristian gets wounded and will join you on Chapter 2.

Edit: Whoever you don't recruit at the Tomb will stay at the cage and will join you for Chapter 2. That will be both the people who went with Tartuccio if you recruited neither.

Choosing Harrim over Val doesn't affect anything.

Neither Harrim nor Jaethal are anywhere to be found now in Chapter 2. I mean - I can "find" Jaethal, but she's stuck as mentioned. I'll file a bug report at least.
 

Nikanuur

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There's far too many trash mobs in the game that's for sure. Agree to disagree on calling the game mediocre though.
First 10 or so hours are filled with maps that are in most occassions REALLY scarce on interaction compared to, say, Baldur's Gate II or, heck, even Icewind Dale. It's mostly fights and a NPC or two, sometimes something hidden. I thought it to be sad, if this were to continue. But things got pleasantly more complex around the Chapter two. Stag Lord's or the Troll fortress even have different approaches and outcomes within one map. So I think it gets really better the longer one is in the game.
 

Mangoose

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Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity
Ever since I got Dimensional Door on a couple of my guys, not only could I out-position the enemy, I can lure them to a trap e.g. a fireball after I teleport out. Though mainly it's the Mass teleportation that feels almost overpowered. If you've evaluated your targets correctly, you can alpha focus fire with your whole team (sure, you don't get to attack, but you should have companions going immediately after; otherwise no point in this tactic).

The thing is that it's not just a spell. It's in almost every other class, which if they don't have spells they get the same mechanic.

That being said, if the AI were smarter the story would be different.
 

Mangoose

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There's far too many trash mobs in the game that's for sure. Agree to disagree on calling the game mediocre though.
First 10 or so hours are filled with maps that are in most occassions REALLY scarce on interaction compared to, say, Baldur's Gate II or, heck, even Icewind Dale. It's mostly fights and a NPC or two, sometimes something hidden. I thought it to be sad, if this were to continue. But things got pleasantly more complex around the Chapter two. Stag Lord's or the Troll fortress even have different approaches and outcomes within one map. So I think it gets really better the longer one is in the game.
TB-mode makes you spend (a little) more time and effort per battle so I've been feeling the trash combat. By trash I mean repetition when there should be variation. I suppose I could relax on the "easy" ones by turning TB off. I dunno.
 

Nikanuur

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There's far too many trash mobs in the game that's for sure. Agree to disagree on calling the game mediocre though.
First 10 or so hours are filled with maps that are in most occassions REALLY scarce on interaction compared to, say, Baldur's Gate II or, heck, even Icewind Dale. It's mostly fights and a NPC or two, sometimes something hidden. I thought it to be sad, if this were to continue. But things got pleasantly more complex around the Chapter two. Stag Lord's or the Troll fortress even have different approaches and outcomes within one map. So I think it gets really better the longer one is in the game.
TB-mode makes you spend (a little) more time and effort per battle so I've been feeling the trash combat. By trash I mean repetition when there should be variation. I suppose I could relax on the "easy" ones by turning TB off. I dunno.
Definitely! Also take different approaches to the fights. To sneak with a rogue or two with the Improved Evasion to the middle of the enemy squadron, and to cast a tripping or any other reflex-save spell(s) centered on your rogue(s) is your fun friend of the day! Upgrade by the Combat Reflexes for some added sweet golly goshness.

Or prepare three ATT buffed melee characters with the Charge in a conus. Have the fastest archer aggro the enemy, run towards your melee's, pause at the right moment, then issue the funcharged three-charge!
 

LannTheStupid

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If you want to let AI play the game watch Twitch.
In DA-2 I could program AI to play the game and do it without any twitching. It's understandable, but undesirable that the system of tactics / gambits has never been implemented by Owlcat Games.

The game is overall pretty mediocre, so will see how long i will endure it.
Why are you still playing the game, then? The first time I "endure" something I stop doing it unless it is a paid job or some kind of self-development.
 

Nikanuur

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Does anyone have any idea why this game falls apart after act 2?Act 3 is lets hunt some magical monstaaasss.....Cringe upon a cringe.
This be Harrim being Harrim at his best :D

As for your question, I don't really know. Maybe the second game from Owlbear is going to be totally awsome, and they had to finish fast in this one. Who knows.
 
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Stavrophore

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It has decent combat engine so far. That's enough for me to keep playing it even if anything else might be terrible.

Seems people retardo my post but they can't read. I said "else might be terrible" NOT "else IS terrible". That's a subtle difference -learn english people.

Why are you still playing the game, then? The first time I "endure" something I stop doing it unless it is a paid job or some kind of self-development.

Im playing because some games have poor/uninteresting start but then they become more interesting. If i had to rate Fallout 2 by temple of trials and arroyo i would give it 5-6/10. But then the game get more interesting.
 

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