bayoubilly I've played almost an entire playthrough on RTwP and a full one on TB and I vastly prefer TB. YMMV
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Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat
- Thread starter Elex
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Most effects like that are either -2, -4, and/or qualitative.
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I’ve found that you really miss out on a lot of the team synergies and combos that are at the heart of what the game is all about if you can’t move as a squad like you do in RTwP.
The most important pause is end of round where you give the team their orders for the next but if you open with a team Charge sometimes combat doesn’t even last that long. Can’t do that in TB.
The most important pause is end of round where you give the team their orders for the next but if you open with a team Charge sometimes combat doesn’t even last that long. Can’t do that in TB.
bayoubilly
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thank you for the feedback here - I'll give both a shot. I think turn based will be good to consciously experiment with each of my companions and see what abilities actually work the way I want them to. It's been a long time since NWN 2 and Pathfinder is different enough from 3.5. But once I can get each class to do what I want, I think it may be more fun and certainly more kinetic to real time it and see everything comes together in a dance that would make Fulgrim proud.
one last technical and one last theory question before I stop thinking and just play through the rest of this campaign..
Pathfinder has skills with combat implications that I believe do not apply in Kingmaker. Mobility still impacts avoiding attacks of opportunity, so definitely something I'm gonna want my flankers and barbarians to have in spades. Stealth has obvious combat use. But what about athletics? I think Kingmaker removed it from all combat maneuver checks, but just wanna confirm before letting my tanks ignore it.
Theory wise - for p&p campaign there seems to be a consensus about the tiers of class power, with casters viewed as objectively superior classes, and prepared casters that can learn all of the level 9 spells are better than spontaneous level 9 casters (i.e. wizard > sorcerer). But p&p lets you use spells outside of combat like a rogue uses their skills - so does that rule carry over to kingmaker? specifically for casters I think 85% of my casts are from the same 3-5 spells from each level - so having those on demand actually creates more utility than memorizing them arbitrarily (wizard memorizes 1 fire and 1 ice spell - run into ice monster - can only cast 1 fire vs. sorcerer knowing both but casting 2 fire); so maybe sorcerer is actually better than wizard? And generally, since casters can't do crazy shit like use telepathy to say, implant suicidal thoughts into a guard's head using his own voice etc. are casters still easily the superior combat classes?
Either way - I am doing roleplay builds - I can't stand crazy min-max shit like taking a single level in a completely unrelated class just to get an ability. Especially when it conflicts with the companion's personality and you end up with cleric of Iomedae taking level long break from defending the innocent so he can learn how to steal shit. But it would be cool to hear thoughts on this regardless
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There are no class strength tiers. Your strength lies in how well you combine them together to meet the specific challenge you face.
You need every skill, but none more than Perception. Even Athletics can net you 100Ks of EXP and get you much faster and more easily to a key plot point.
You need every skill, but none more than Perception. Even Athletics can net you 100Ks of EXP and get you much faster and more easily to a key plot point.
Average Manatee
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There's definitely class strength tiers lol. For example Vivisectionist basically trumps Rogue classes in every way unless you are going for something really, really specific like a thug demoralize or stacking the high level rogue talent that applies strength penalties to crits.
However the reason certain classes are very overpowered in PnP is due to things that aren't represented in game, like social interaction (beyond skills, using stuff like illusions to trick people or divine the truth) or their ability to avoid combat entirely (by walking through walls or flying over everything etc etc), or otherwise beat combat without fighting (flooding a whole dungeon). Since spontaneous casters with limited spells can't memorize the vast array of specific spells to do these things they are weaker, and classes without magic basically have to ask the wizard to let them play ("I know you could just turn the whole party invisible but please let me just use stealth sneak in alone"). Druids are OP because Polymorph is basically a black check to fill in with whatever monster you can find in the thousands of pages of monster lists with some cool ability that can do whatever you need. In game you pretty much care about killing stuff in straight up battles so this doesn't apply, and you don't even really want to bypass combat that much since it gives XP.
To clarify, you want perception on as many characters as possible because all your characters roll separately to find loot and traps. Doubling up makes it unlikely you miss stuff. Other skills are a single roll taking the best character of a whole party. Mobility isn't that important imo. If you are using it in RT then you have to manually activate Acrobatics every time and then deactivate it which is kind of micro intensive as fuck in the heat of battle. In TB you have 5 foot step. 3 mobility improves fighting defensively and some feats need it. There's also some feats that can cause persuasion checks to intimidate creatures in battle. Theoretically the knowledge spells are kind of useful to stack since they give you multiple rolls to identify creatures but not really.
However the reason certain classes are very overpowered in PnP is due to things that aren't represented in game, like social interaction (beyond skills, using stuff like illusions to trick people or divine the truth) or their ability to avoid combat entirely (by walking through walls or flying over everything etc etc), or otherwise beat combat without fighting (flooding a whole dungeon). Since spontaneous casters with limited spells can't memorize the vast array of specific spells to do these things they are weaker, and classes without magic basically have to ask the wizard to let them play ("I know you could just turn the whole party invisible but please let me just use stealth sneak in alone"). Druids are OP because Polymorph is basically a black check to fill in with whatever monster you can find in the thousands of pages of monster lists with some cool ability that can do whatever you need. In game you pretty much care about killing stuff in straight up battles so this doesn't apply, and you don't even really want to bypass combat that much since it gives XP.
To clarify, you want perception on as many characters as possible because all your characters roll separately to find loot and traps. Doubling up makes it unlikely you miss stuff. Other skills are a single roll taking the best character of a whole party. Mobility isn't that important imo. If you are using it in RT then you have to manually activate Acrobatics every time and then deactivate it which is kind of micro intensive as fuck in the heat of battle. In TB you have 5 foot step. 3 mobility improves fighting defensively and some feats need it. There's also some feats that can cause persuasion checks to intimidate creatures in battle. Theoretically the knowledge spells are kind of useful to stack since they give you multiple rolls to identify creatures but not really.
Yosharian
Arcane
Yes but Vivisectionist is not supposed to get half the shit it gets, for example they gave it Rogue talents, there is nothing in the PnP that says they should get those
And then infinite Combat Trick which is a whole debate in itself
And then infinite Combat Trick which is a whole debate in itself
Yosharian
Arcane
That's literally it but Owlcat be like 'fuck it give them all the talents'
Did they change party weight limits to be influenced by CON too, not just by STR?
I got infected with CON lowering poison, and was surprised to find that it changes. I'm just asking here, because I might be retarded.
I got infected with CON lowering poison, and was surprised to find that it changes. I'm just asking here, because I might be retarded.
Did you get fatigued due to the con change? That would affect it.
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Con determines how fast you get fatigued. Very important not to dump Con or you’ll have to rest all the time (or fight Exhausted).
Or learn to intimidate someone and scare them to death? For me it is perfect paladin RP, very much what the American police does.
I generally agree, but sometimes it can be fun to think up a biographical plotline that joins the dots. Sometimes you can do it. (Like for example a catastrophic event in someone's life can change their alignment or motivation or their class, but then they repent or realize they've been going down a blind alley and return to their roots, etc.) But if the build gets too choppy it becomes almost impossible.
Average Manatee
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"after cutting up the tuskgutter boar, Amiri was intrigued by the internal organs and decided to dabble in vivisectionist for 3 levels. As did Valerie after beating the knight asshole. Then both of them looked up their family tree and realized their grand grand grand grand granddaddy was a dragon, so they became Dragon Disciplines for exactly 4 levels."
Average Manatee
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I never want to play tabletop with you.
I run 95% single classed characters.
Good. Things get frisky otherwise.
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Need somebody to DM the kiddie table.
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There’s only the computer until he opens his big yap and corrupts all the newbs.
bayoubilly
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true pottery. I know people tend to indulge in gamey builds in vidya but keep it more reasonable in tabletop - but I honestly think it should be the other way around. the premade video game narrative and character development can't adapt to match the "unexpected" character direction. if you're playing table top, and can explain your bizarre choices and have your character's personality/behavior/etc adapt to that with a straight face... pure pottery
who do u need to explain your class selection in a vidya game to tho
Just finished the pirate quest at Pitax. 4,5K exp for handing over the tome or around 70k exp, various bonuses and an unforeseen good outcome for the society for dealing with the Captain through the skill checks. I'm not proud of scumm saving to see all the options, but this was kinda wholesome 
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Beats me but doesn’t stop retards running their mouths constantly.
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