Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Sykar]

I like how something started with women in plate and then elevated to furries. Kitsune FTW!

That is nothing. I had a conversation with a friend of mine which went from Kindergarten to literally Hitler at the end. Granted there was alcohol involved in that discussion as well so...

 

[LannTheStupid]

Kitsune are better than Hitler. Fight me!

 

[Sykar]

Everything is better than Hitler, after all he was one of the greatest scum bags in human history.

 

[Gargaune]

No Desiderius and Lann the Autist, the story isn't that great. It's serviceable, the writing does a decent job of getting you from point A to B, but there sure as hell isn't even close to what some of the great stories exists in other games (e.g. Fallout 2, Planescape Torment or Chrono Trigger for that matter). Half the companions are straight up stereotypes. And it's just mega cringe to try interpret these stories into something far more than what is actually presented. No there is no subversion or hidden meaning, there is no parallels to be made to some greek philosophy or whatever the fuck you are blabbering about now.

The story is more than serviceable, it's very damn solid and that's mainly because it does something that not a lot of cRPG plots do, at least not to the same extent - it recurringly calls back to a central motif, here a clash of kings on the strings of the unseen puppet master, the kingmaker. The beauty of this feature is that it only becomes apparent in hindsight, as the pieces of the puzzle are laid down and the pattern emerges. Off the top of my head, only Planescape: Torment and NWN2 Mask of the Betrayer are as deliberate and reliable in circling back to their core motifs. The reason why Kingmaker doesn't get its dues in this respect is merely that its presentation is more subdued, absent the bombastic supporting cast, quotable moments and interpersonal drama that have become so common in the genre.

 

[bayoubilly]

anyone have any proposed solutions for these problems? It is easy to overlook things that are required, like the oddities of simulating character powers with math. Even the stuff that is pretty clearly driven by a real world perspective isn't a problem if it is consistent with the universe. But when there is an immersion breaker simply because a writer or dev wanted to push an agenda really doesn't sit well.

my short time in the military left me with no trouble imagining a woman in full plate leading her army, fighting at range, or engaging in stealth and dexterity based melee. And a trained woman in plate could easily bash in a light infantry skull - I have no doubt she could learn how. I cannot shake the cringe every time I see a human women tanking or doing brute force damage. It isn't a matter of stereotypes. exceptional women are capable of doing the first set of tasks. they are extremely rare - but the main characters are supposed to be exceptional. but it is impossible for a human woman with human anatomy to tank or brawl. that isn't political. it's just reality. the gap in upper body muscle mass is simply too much for a bio woman to overcome.

It really tears into immersion not just cause it is a deliberate and politically motivated attempt to screw with the game. and as much as I want to just roll my eyes and ignore it as a modern necessity like I do Pathfinders other inconsistencies - every time I see Amiri charge or goad an enemy - she reminds me of our divisions highest ranked female boxer goading a new recruit into the ring, wailing on him as hard as she could for 30 seconds while he just stood there awkwardly, and then him breaking her jaw with his first shot when she went for his balls... dragon age origins handled this brilliantly. loads of bad ass women, some of whom were leaders, but not ignoring biology without an explanation.

anyways to fix that in my game - for Amiri, I just changed her to half-orc. Her personality is really tied to the barbarian class, and no human woman could do that, so I just made her not human. same face is easily justified as a hybrid exception. whatever.

Valerie could be a cleric a la joan of arc - but she is an atheist so that doesn't work. I am thinking I may make her a ranger and the ranger dude a fighter... any suggestions?

but yeah other than that owl cat seems pretty reasonable here other than this...

 

[BING XI LAO]

Jesus christ the autism.

BING XI INCEL - Women in plate armor in a fucking fantasy game with magic, talking trees and midgets that turn into kobolds is plausible.

I followed a completely different line of argument than plausibility, as explicitly stated multiple times, learn to read faggot

 

[BING XI LAO]

To be fair it's difficult to not draw the conclusion that someone has never touched a woman in their life if they get this triggered that a pixel woman appears in plate armor

So when the SJWs get around to writing in male pregnancy, and I get triggered by that, does it mean I hjave never had a male friend irl???
What even is this line of thought. wtf

"But it's a world of fantasy so men could reasonably get pregnant, after all spellcasters can make barren ground sprout with life in seconds"

Yes but it's still massively gay, retarded and disgusting, and also unheroic

 

[LannTheStupid]

Well, the most difficult thing with male pregnancy is to preserve both the man and the child alive. The embryo is pretty aggressive and can implant itself anywhere, as one can deduce from the cases of ectopic pregnancy. Women have exactly one organ where the implantation is safe both for the mother and for the embryo; men have none.

 

[Shadenuat]

anyone have any proposed solutions for these problems?

focus on gameplay and make it good enough so your storytelling skills, however good or shit they are, would't be that relevant.
take lessons from the masters who made worlds first, and then set up levels, game, stories in them (looking glass, troika, etc.) if you're making someone orc to explain something it's bad idea id say, look at Arcanum, which takes orks and then tries to figure out how they would fit into the setting.
in the end, it's all autism tho, games are made on fundamentals of art and coding, not autists arguing over how much STR female ork must have.

 

[Bloodeyes]

I'm really starting to love this game. Holy shit it's been a steep learning curve but now that I'm starting to get the hang of it and make effective builds it's amazing. Situationally switching between turn based and RTWP really makes this game shine. Real time for the easy fights, turn based for the challenging ones. It lets you use classes with more active playstyles so much better and AC isn't the top priority any more. Definitely in my top 5 RPGs of all time. I've been exploring the different classes and haven't found a shit one yet (excluding subclasses). Built the right way they're all pretty great. My only trouble is I'm impatient to try my new build ideas so I keep restarting.

My current build is fucking awesome. Motherless tiefling, Necromancy cleric (Crusader subclass). Gets racial +2s to STR and WIS and a bite attack. Neutral good pharasma woshipper so he's going to wear blessed path when he gets it for +2 WIS and CHA. He'll wear the cloak that adds to bite damage, an amulet of mighty fists (which should work on bite, hopefully I'm right) and the crown thing that buffs negative channeling. He's so good. He summons skeletons (he's not actually creating undead, they're dead souls sent by his patron deity so it's a lore friendly build). He cuts tough enemies down to size with incredible debuff effects. Can deal damage with spells. Has an OK AOE in channel negative energy (with selective channel). He's weapon neutral-ish (has focus greatsword but can use any martial or simple weapon in a pinch for stress free play).

He combines so well with my team. My enemies end up lying on the ground, entangled in webs, laughing their heads off while getting hacked to death by skeletons. But I'll probably never finish playing as him because I made a follower who's so awesome I want him as my main...

Rogan the human rogue (eldritch scoundrel/arcane trickster). Rogan is the MVP. He can retry locks with ranged ledgermain. Wins us fights with web. Gets sneak attacks on ray spells. He can cast decently, shoot decently, and can defend our back line when it gets rushed because he gets AC from spells and can sort of melee as well as cast and shoot. He went into arcane trickster through eldritch scoundrel, not wizard/rogue 1 so he does dex based damage with his melee weapon (shortsword for no reason other than it matches his portrait perfectly). He also has no opposition school, unlike a wizard. He's a perfect rogue archetype, the jack of all trades who is useful in every situation. He even has use magic device so he can heal if he has to. He's not strong enough to solo but if I were to try a small party he'd make the cut. Him and a minmaxed angel blooded paladin could basically do everything that needs doing. Might want a cleric and a tank too I guess...

I'd also love to try a magus now that I've noticed they can cast in heavy armor at higher levels. That's so good. If you just used spells for AC until you got medium armor you could be a STR based beast at high levels. Or maybe a tower shield specialist. Or a barbarian. Their movement speed and damage dealing make them incredible in turn based mode. Amiri is already really good and she's horribly built. A minmaxed barbarian would be incredible, and one of the subclasses gets a pet that can do 5 attacks...

I don't think I'm ever going to finish this game. Truly this is the highest praise I can give to a character system.

 

[Desiderius]

I don't think I'm ever going to finish this game.

Give it a few thousand hours. You'll get there eventually. Then there's Wrath...

 

[Desiderius]

Everything is better than Hitler, after all he was one of the greatest scum bags in human history.

Schiklgruber was a schmuck. The people who made him into the literal anti-Christ, now there you're getting into something interesting.

 

[NJClaw]

Bloodeyes yeah you'll probably like Wrath of the Righteous then. Same system but with more races, more subclasses, and a path to choose for your main character that basically works like an additional entire class with its own privileges that can improve or complete your build.

Try to stick more to your campaigns. Even if the last dungeon (rightfully) gets a lot of shit, seeing the entire story wrap up at least once is very nice. Once you've seen the entire game, you can form a better idea of where you want to stop on your playthroughs. If you get the itch to try a new build, you can always jump on the Roguelike Mode of the Beneath the Stolen Lands DLC.

 

[Bloodeyes]

Bloodeyes yeah you'll probably like Wrath of the Righteous then. Same system but with more races, more subclasses, and a path to choose for your main character that basically works like an additional entire class with its own privileges that can improve or complete your build.

Try to stick more to your campaigns. Even if the last dungeon (rightfully) gets a lot of shit, seeing the entire story wrap up at least once is very nice. Once you've seen the entire game, you can form a better idea of where you want to stop on your playthroughs. If you get the itch to try a new build, you can always jump on the Roguelike Mode of the Beneath the Stolen Lands DLC.

Yeah I should stick with my playthroughs but I'm like this with every RPG. I put hundreds of hours in KOTOR and never finished it. I wrote a fucking modding guide for Daggerfall and never beat it. It's a sickness. Building characters. I'm getting tempted to try last Azlanti mode so I'm forced to just stick with my experience and stop trying to optimize. I'd need a pretty solid, survivable build for that though, maybe a tower shield tank paladin (hospitaler for immunity to death effects)... it will never end. I must have killed the stag lord 50 times already.

 

[Pink Eye]

The age of plate armor is over.

Nah. I love my armored babes. Hot as fuck!

For me. It's a strong monk woman!

 

[Pink Eye]

Grunker No! You're disgusting! Monk womans are hot!

 

[Desiderius]

Man, the number and intensity of people trying to make multi-classing and EK happen in the PF ruleset suggests that there’s some real demand out there for some more well-turned out 3.5 games.

 

[Desiderius]

EK = man these classes have too much shit going on for me to keep track of. Just let me play some 3.5 and leave me alone.

 

[Bloodeyes]

I did it. I restarted again. Playing on what I call "tabletop difficulty". Normal difficulty is:

- Weak critical hits
- Death's door on
- Somewhat easier enemies
- Damage to party: 0.8
- Party speed not affected by encumbrance
- Last Azlanti mode off
- Allow retrain on

Tabletop (custom) difficulty is:
- Normal crits
- Death's door off
- Normal enemies
- Damage to party 1.0
- Encumbrance affect's move speed
- Last Azlanti on
- Retrain off (no endless respecs have to trust my builds and roll with mistakes)

Motherless tiefling barbarian (mad dog). He's going to have two bite attacks and he has a pet smilodon. Rogan the MVP is still a hireling because I don't like running a party that's mostly women. No idea what's going to happen. It won't be an optimal run but it already feels like an adventure. I'm going to finish this one or at least run it until I make game breaking mistakes. It's a PnP campaign on computer, not a video game.

 

[Erebus]

From what I've seen, pets can be pretty strong and they really make the intro and the first Act much easier. But when you're fighting in narrow spaces, their size can make it difficult for them to reach the enemies (and they get bigger when reaching level 4 or 7).

 

[Desiderius]

Yeah you really want the option to mount up when things get tight.

 

[Anonymous Wife Scholar]

Anonymous Wife Scholar Do you think Valerie deserves all the air being blown in her direction? Enlighten us, brother.

Thank you Monk anon! Bestest friend forever anon! I do love blow air Valerie Monk anon! I do! She is cute spin Valerie Monk anon! She is! You are my bestest friend forever anon!

 

[Anonymous Wife Scholar]

ERYFKRAD Thank you anon! Good strong friend anon! Do not worry anon it is okay anon because I am steal picture wife scholar! I am! Do not no redirection nonsense me anons! Do not! Thank you anon! You are a good strong friend anon!

 

[Yosharian]

From what I've seen, pets can be pretty strong and they really make the intro and the first Act much easier. But when you're fighting in narrow spaces, their size can make it difficult for them to reach the enemies (and they get bigger when reaching level 4 or 7).

Nah not really

If you know what you're doing and therefore are using a custom formation that puts the pets in the frontline, it's fine

Also pets barely drop off at all even in the later acts, even the relatively weaker ones get significantly better as they gain attacks. They'll always have really good non-touch AC as long as you're buffing them right, they have shit-tons of HP, and they do good-to-excellent damage.

My team had three pets, a smilodon, leopard and elk. Once I started using them with a custom formation they barely ever got in the way, and they dominated the battlefield from level 1 onwards

 

[Nikanuur]

So, I've just finished the game with something that seems totally unfathomable.

Spoiler

Around 5 kinda scarce conversational ticks with Nyrissa and Lantern king that seemed to promote compassion (Lawful good character). And that was it. End of the game. No enormous fight, no enormous conversation, no nothing. I mean, I feel only negligibly cheated, but I am not displeased or left undone or anything in general. Mostly just very very surprised with geting off that easily. Other endings on youtube spouted options that seemed like at least another hour of gameplay of fights and choices. Wow. Just wow, I don't think I've ever seen this in any RPG :D