Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[CthuluIsSpy]

Yeah, Reg is a little out there. Didn't like him too much. He feels like he's been written by someone who wants to make a macho character but doesn't know how, so he just makes a sleazy violent dickhead.
His questline is crap too because of how shallow it is. With literally any other character you have some level of input in the outcome, but with Octavia and Reg's you have one choice and that's it. No talking Reg out of going angry murder hobo, no talking Octavia out of being an arsonist which literally comes out of nowhere, nothing.
Tristian isn't bad, but he's boring (he's literally just a heal bot and his questline makes him even more of a heal bot by making him blind and therefore even more shit at fighting) and his dialogue isn't great. He and Reg have some pretty cringe dialogue.
I found Linzi to be annoying too.

Harrim is pretty neat though. I didn't like him at first because of his sleepy voice acting and fatalism, but his story arc is solid. Jahael has an interesting questline too, and Nok-Nok is just fun.
Jubi has a fun questline as well and it actually has a pretty big impact later on in the game, which is a nice touch.

 

[Yosharian]

This is Ekundayo's vanilla distribution:

STR 16, DEX 19, CON 14, INT 10, WIS 12, CHA 10 (30 points)

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

nah the barb's wokeness is all paizo
there are also stuff like offering her to be ogre's wife etc that makes you thnk not everyone on team is inhaling woke fumes.

Yeah but that part of her backstory where she kills a bunch of barbarian warriors by herself even though she can't fight more than two bandits when you get her? That's kind of sus.

 

[Bloodeyes]

Yeah, Reg is a little out there. Didn't like him too much. He feels like he's been written by someone who wants to make a macho character but doesn't know how, so he just makes a sleazy violent dickhead.
His questline is crap too because of how shallow it is. With literally any other character you have some level of input in the outcome, but with Octavia and Reg's you have one choice and that's it. No talking Reg out of going angry murder hobo, no talking Octavia out of being an arsonist which literally comes out of nowhere, nothing.
Tristian isn't bad, but he's boring (he's literally just a heal bot and his questline makes him even more of a heal bot by making him blind and therefore even more shit at fighting) and his dialogue isn't great. He and Reg have some pretty cringe dialogue.
I found Linzi to be annoying too.

Harrim is pretty neat though. I didn't like him at first because of his sleepy voice acting and fatalism, but his story arc is solid. Jahael has an interesting questline too, and Nok-Nok is just fun.
Jubi has a fun questline as well and it actually has a pretty big impact later on in the game, which is a nice touch.

Devil's adovacte on Tristian, he is redeemable in combat at high level. Hellfire ray is one of the best spells in the game and Death from Afar gives +4 to hit with ranged. Empower spell, maximize spell. Echolocation makes blindness irrelevant, so you can just cast that on him and still use rays (or I guess you could follow the blind fight tree. Seems more RP appropriate). He'll be a little gear dependent but he'll get by in those gloves and a DEX belt. Or just do DC casting with evocation focus. He's not useless in combat, he's still a cleric and gets the awesome spell list at high level, but he can be made a lot better in the same class with a respec, while staying thematically consistent with his character.

 

[Efe]

nah the barb's wokeness is all paizo
there are also stuff like offering her to be ogre's wife etc that makes you thnk not everyone on team is inhaling woke fumes.

Yeah but that part of her backstory where she kills a bunch of barbarian warriors by herself even though she can't fight more than two bandits when you get her? That's kind of sus.

shes lying about a lot of things, which you will see as you progress her story

 

[monilloman]

did you seriosuly spend time to mod out a black guy? what kind of braind damage do you have

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

nah the barb's wokeness is all paizo
there are also stuff like offering her to be ogre's wife etc that makes you thnk not everyone on team is inhaling woke fumes.

Yeah but that part of her backstory where she kills a bunch of barbarian warriors by herself even though she can't fight more than two bandits when you get her? That's kind of sus.

shes lying about a lot of things, which you will see as you progress her story

Was she lying about that though?

Spoiler

You find out that she didn't actually kill a giant for his sword, she just looted his corpse, but I don't think there was anything that disproved her claim that she solo'd a bunch of barbarians?

 

[mondblut]

did you seriosuly spend time to mod out a black guy? what kind of braind damage do you have

You must be new here. We call them "niggers" around these parts

 

[mondblut]

Was she lying about that though?

Spoiler

You find out that she didn't actually kill a giant for his sword, she just looted his corpse, but I don't think there was anything that disproved her claim that she solo'd a bunch of barbarians?

Doesn't she eventually admit she killed them in their sleep?

 

[Wunderbar]

Was she lying about that though?

Spoiler

You find out that she didn't actually kill a giant for his sword, she just looted his corpse, but I don't think there was anything that disproved her claim that she solo'd a bunch of barbarians?

Doesn't she eventually admit she killed them in their sleep?

no, they were awake. They were laughing at her and didn't expect her to go berserk.

 

[Yosharian]

did you seriosuly spend time to mod out a black guy? what kind of braind damage do you have

You must be new here. We call them "niggers" around these parts

You fucking neo-nazi idiots like to think that the Codex is 'your place' but it actually just tolerates you. Being the brain-dead morons that you are, you mistake that tolerance for comradery. Sure, there are plenty of racists like yourself around here. That doesn't make the Codex yours, it just makes you and your ilk one of the many costs of allowing free speech on a platform.

 

[kangaxx]

nah the barb's wokeness is all paizo
there are also stuff like offering her to be ogre's wife etc that makes you thnk not everyone on team is inhaling woke fumes.

Yeah but that part of her backstory where she kills a bunch of barbarian warriors by herself even though she can't fight more than two bandits when you get her? That's kind of sus.

shes lying about a lot of things, which you will see as you progress her story

She was lying about a lot, but I thought that (or something similar) was true? Maybe missed it because by then I would have been 100+ hours in and dialogue fatigue had kicked in.

 

[mondblut]

You fucking neo-nazi idiots like to think that the Codex is 'your place' but it actually just tolerates you. Being the brain-dead morons that you are, you mistake that tolerance for comradery. Sure, there are plenty of racists like yourself around here. That doesn't make the Codex yours, it just makes you and your ilk one of the many costs of allowing free speech on a platform.

You seem upset. Is that the black fragility we keep hearing about?

 

[ERYFKRAD]

did you seriosuly spend time to mod out a black guy? what kind of braind damage do you have

You must be new here. We call them "niggers" around these parts

You fucking neo-nazi idiots like to think that the Codex is 'your place' but it actually just tolerates you. Being the brain-dead morons that you are, you mistake that tolerance for comradery. Sure, there are plenty of racists like yourself around here. That doesn't make the Codex yours, it just makes you and your ilk one of the many costs of allowing free speech on a platform.

 

[LannTheStupid]

You fucking neo-nazi idiots like to think that the Codex is 'your place' but it actually just tolerates you. Being the brain-dead morons that you are, you mistake that tolerance for comradery. Sure, there are plenty of racists like yourself around here. That doesn't make the Codex yours, it just makes you and your ilk one of the many costs of allowing free speech on a platform.

You seem upset. Is that the black fragility we keep hearing about?

He is just an American table topper. And may be a mulatto.

 

[plem]

He has stats that are impossible to achieve with a human PC because the politically correct devs wanted to get good stats for a ranger without dumping INT or CHA on a black character.

Valerie also has illegal stats and she gets a boost to all of them later on. Jaethal and Nok-Nok also have access to stats and racial features unavailable to PCs and I'm sure there's others I'm not remembering. it's done either for story (Valerie couldn't have low CHA since she's supposed to be so beautiful) or gameplay reasons. but moreover, companions don't have to use the same point-buy system as the PC (which is already way more generous than would normally be allowed in P&P).

anyways, complaining about the balance of anything in Kingmaker is pointless because, well, it's a singleplayer game for one but also there's incomparably worse offenders (namely pets and summons) than a slightly buffed ranger.

but with Octavia and Reg's you have one choice and that's it. No talking Reg out of going angry murder hobo, no talking Octavia out of being an arsonist which literally comes out of nowhere, nothing.

that's, uh, false. you can absolutely stop both of those things from happening. depending on your choices, you can change both of their alignments, with Octavia going CG to CN if you choose revenge and Reg going CE to CN if you choose to save the slaves. that'll determine the resolutions of their quests.

 

[Bloodeyes]

He has stats that are impossible to achieve with a human PC because the politically correct devs wanted to get good stats for a ranger without dumping INT or CHA on a black character.

Valerie also has illegal stats and she gets a boost to all of them later on.

They gave her a single, non functional point of CHA above what I can get with a PC (this is actually a respec at +25 stats, but that's what the player can get). Because, as you stated, she's supposed to be beautiful. There are story reasons (as you've noted) behind the extra point and her default stats don't make her particularly strong.

The extra point is so useless I'm more than happy to let it go and respec her with +25 stats when I play. A martial character with 14 STR and no class feature like weapon training to compensate is a bit too "balanced" for my taste, despite having one more point than a PC can achieve (+27 stats). So I stat her better (but not optimally, I like her to feel like a character, not just a build).

Jaethal and Nok-Nok also have access to stats and racial features unavailable to PCs

Jaethal's a bit different. She doesn't have increased numbers over what a PC could theoretically make were undead available to play, she has 5 fewer stat points (+20 stats). This is to to balance her because she'd be totally OP with the extra racial bonuses and removed racial negative (from no CON score) otherwise.

Nok-Nok is OP as fuck, and like Ekundayo he gets perfect gear handed to him as soon as you get him. He's a bit of a Sue himself. You can see they tried to give him a downside (12 CON) but just couldn't stand to do it and so handed the player a +4 DEX and CON belt immediately after they got Nok-Nok so that drawback can be removed. It's a bit of an issue for sure because he comes in and steals everyone's thunder (and their kills) by being significantly more powerful than either the PC or any other party member. He's actually way more OP than Ekundayo and I don't usually keep him in my party. He doesn't irritate me like Ekun though, because at least he's charming and well written, unlike Ekundayo who is just a perfect Mary Sue because anything else would be racism.

anyways, complaining about the balance of anything in Kingmaker is pointless because, well, it's a singleplayer game for one but also there's incomparably worse offenders (namely pets and summons) than a slightly buffed ranger.

It's not just an issue of balance (Nok - Nok is unbalanced but I was talking about Ekun). Ekun gets +30 stats to the PCs +25. As does Kalikke. Neither have any real RP justification. They're both just stupid, shit Mary Sues. Ekun's not just a Sue because of his stats either. He has no character flaws at all. Amiri is strong and brave but also kind of dumb and full of shit (with lower stats than the PC at +20). Harrim is wise and hardy but clumsy, not very strong and not very likeable (with +20 stats). Ekun is average at worst at everything.

It would have made perfect story sense to go with something like this for Ekun:

A good stat array for a ranger, in line with how his character is portrayed, yet not so perfectly optimized that he doesn't look out of place. This is +25 stats Ekundayo and it's absolutely fine. There is no story or character reason for him to not have stats like this beyond an unwillingness to go low on INT and CHA on a black character.

He is skilled, strong in combat and beloved by all. His only character flaws are what? Brooding and having a tragic backstory? He sucks as a character. Balance isn't the reason his +30 stats bother me. My +25 Ekun here would actually end up stronger when levelled (All points in DEX). It's the unwillingness to make a black character bad at anything that bothers me.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

He has stats that are impossible to achieve with a human PC because the politically correct devs wanted to get good stats for a ranger without dumping INT or CHA on a black character.

Valerie also has illegal stats and she gets a boost to all of them later on. Jaethal and Nok-Nok also have access to stats and racial features unavailable to PCs and I'm sure there's others I'm not remembering. it's done either for story (Valerie couldn't have low CHA since she's supposed to be so beautiful) or gameplay reasons. but moreover, companions don't have to use the same point-buy system as the PC (which is already way more generous than would normally be allowed in P&P).

anyways, complaining about the balance of anything in Kingmaker is pointless because, well, it's a singleplayer game for one but also there's incomparably worse offenders (namely pets and summons) than a slightly buffed ranger.

but with Octavia and Reg's you have one choice and that's it. No talking Reg out of going angry murder hobo, no talking Octavia out of being an arsonist which literally comes out of nowhere, nothing.

that's, uh, false. you can absolutely stop both of those things from happening. depending on your choices, you can change both of their alignments, with Octavia going CG to CN if you choose revenge and Reg going CE to CN if you choose to save the slaves. that'll determine the resolutions of their quests.

Yes, I know.
That alignment shift is the only input you get. You get no input in the LAST stage of their quest. Your decision in the prior quest is the only decision that matters. It's not like the end stage of any other companion quest where you can influence how it ends.

 

[Haplo]

Nok-Nok is made of wet tissue paper and next to useless on higher difficulties. You can work on his defenses, but it will take many levels to make him decent.

 

[Yosharian]

Yeah pure rogue is very good at damage dealing but extremely weak in other areas.

 

[Bloodeyes]

Nok-Nok is made of wet tissue paper and next to useless on higher difficulties. You can work on his defenses, but it will take many levels to make him decent.

I play on hard, the second highest difficulty. He's brokenly OP so long as you don't try to tank with him. The +4 DEX and CON belt he's given gets him to 16 CON. Toughness gets him acceptable HP. He never gets tank AC but he gets enough to get by. I usually have +5 bracers of armour available by the time I get him, or at least +4. Giving him these, Mother's care and Mother's Warmth, the belt and the feat makes him pretty much flawless out of the box. His only real weakness is his shit will save, but I guess that's still a weakness so maybe he's less of a Sue than Ekun. A character can be OP and still not be a Sue. All it takes is character flaws and weaknesses. Of which Ekun has none, which is my main point in the above post.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Nok-Nok is made of wet tissue paper and next to useless on higher difficulties. You can work on his defenses, but it will take many levels to make him decent.

I play on hard, the second highest difficulty. He's brokenly OP so long as you don't try to tank with him. The +4 DEX and CON belt he's given gets him to 16 CON. Toughness gets him acceptable HP. He never gets tank AC but he gets enough to get by. I usually have +5 bracers of armour available by the time I get him, or at least +4. Giving him these, Mother's care and Mother's Warmth, the belt and the feat makes him pretty much flawless out of the box. His only real weakness is his shit will save, but I guess that's still a weakness so maybe he's less of a Sue than Ekun.

No light armor? Is it so that he gets AC from dex?

 

[Bloodeyes]

Nok-Nok is made of wet tissue paper and next to useless on higher difficulties. You can work on his defenses, but it will take many levels to make him decent.

I play on hard, the second highest difficulty. He's brokenly OP so long as you don't try to tank with him. The +4 DEX and CON belt he's given gets him to 16 CON. Toughness gets him acceptable HP. He never gets tank AC but he gets enough to get by. I usually have +5 bracers of armour available by the time I get him, or at least +4. Giving him these, Mother's care and Mother's Warmth, the belt and the feat makes him pretty much flawless out of the box. His only real weakness is his shit will save, but I guess that's still a weakness so maybe he's less of a Sue than Ekun.

No light armor? Is it so that he gets AC from dex?

Yeah his AC is lower in leather armour. Take it off and put bracers on him, it's actually a hindrance to him to wear armour at all.

I also have Jubilost cast shield on everyone without a shield, so I don't struggle with AC. You gotta know who to put up front is part of it. That's not gonna be the rogue. They shine when flanking an enemy because of their sneak attacks so delay their turn and send them second. Steal everyone's kills.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Nok-Nok is made of wet tissue paper and next to useless on higher difficulties. You can work on his defenses, but it will take many levels to make him decent.

I play on hard, the second highest difficulty. He's brokenly OP so long as you don't try to tank with him. The +4 DEX and CON belt he's given gets him to 16 CON. Toughness gets him acceptable HP. He never gets tank AC but he gets enough to get by. I usually have +5 bracers of armour available by the time I get him, or at least +4. Giving him these, Mother's care and Mother's Warmth, the belt and the feat makes him pretty much flawless out of the box. His only real weakness is his shit will save, but I guess that's still a weakness so maybe he's less of a Sue than Ekun.

No light armor? Is it so that he gets AC from dex?

Yeah his AC is lower in leather armour. Take it off and put bracers on him, it's actually a hindrance to him to wear armour at all.

Huh, can he wear robes? Having an empty chest slot just feels wrong to me.
With robes you get passive bonuses at least.

 

[Bloodeyes]

Nok-Nok is made of wet tissue paper and next to useless on higher difficulties. You can work on his defenses, but it will take many levels to make him decent.

I play on hard, the second highest difficulty. He's brokenly OP so long as you don't try to tank with him. The +4 DEX and CON belt he's given gets him to 16 CON. Toughness gets him acceptable HP. He never gets tank AC but he gets enough to get by. I usually have +5 bracers of armour available by the time I get him, or at least +4. Giving him these, Mother's care and Mother's Warmth, the belt and the feat makes him pretty much flawless out of the box. His only real weakness is his shit will save, but I guess that's still a weakness so maybe he's less of a Sue than Ekun.

No light armor? Is it so that he gets AC from dex?

Yeah his AC is lower in leather armour. Take it off and put bracers on him, it's actually a hindrance to him to wear armour at all.

Huh, can he wear robes? Having an empty chest slot just feels wrong to me.
With robes you get passive bonuses at least.

I mean I think he looks great in the top hat and the bogeyman's robe.