Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Desiderius]

Since we're posting cheese:

Play with xp sharing to all. After you beat the bandits at Oleg's, don't just buy a handful of mercs -- stay at xp level 1 and buy 30, 50 or more. Buy every possible build you would want to use at any point in the game. Buy multiples of your favorite ones and many of the low level ones (example: human mad dog barbarian, 20 str, weapon focus bardiche, precise strike. Example: human mad dog barbarian, 20 str, 18 dex, point blank shot, precise shot ). Buy 4-5 advisor mercs to cover all stats, in case you lose some real advisors during the game.

When you run out of money, strip all your mercs and sell your junk items items. When you run out of money again, do a quick trip to a couple easy locations to gather treasure.

Once you have your full roster of mercs, you are ready to play for real. Now, each time you go out on a run, you can put together whatever party works best for the upcoming areas, while your other 50 characters sit back at base leveling up for free. If a character dies, you don't need to waste 6k gold on a raise dead -- dump the corpse and swap in his clone. When you return to base, you don't always need to spend 8 hours resting -- swap in five non-fatigued characters who have fresh spells. When you are finally forced to rest at Oleg's, your entire roster will heal and regain spells, not just the active party.

Epic example of brilliant (and completely autistic at the same time) muchkinism. Hats off.

It's... not brilliant. Pointless.

 

[Correct_Carlo]

I haven't been using Harrim so I built him as a straight Cleric and brought him to the Dwarf Ruins for his quest. I know you all think all the companions are awesome, and basically all of the companions have grown on me after I've realized what they're useful for, but Harrim is complete and utter shit. He's a completely shit cleric and completely shit at being a tank. I regret not making him a druid or something, so at least he'd have an animal.

Yet again, it's you that sucks, not Harrim.

Another example of same phenomenon as above, but at least Incorrect Charlie here is playing the game.

First of all, fuck you. You're a massive fucking asshole who seems to do nothing but sit on this thread all day and gatekeep this game. It's a fucking single player game. I don't understand why you have to be such a fucking asshole about it as it's not a competition.

Second, everything I've read everywhere says Harrim is shit as a cleric on Unfair. It's not just me saying it. Tristian is an awesome cleric, while Valerie is an awesome tank. Harrim is shit at both, and he's never as good at either role as either of those 2 if you neglect one role for the other, and if you try to do both, he's completely mediocre. Maybe he's fine early game when you have no other better options, or late game when you have tons of items to work with, but he's completely shit at level 6-7 while doing the troll trouble quest, to the point that I actually just stopped using him entirely. I beat the final bosses with just my MC Ranger, Valerie, the Gnome dude, the NPC ranger, and my Sylvan Sorcerer Merc with Harrim standing in another room with his AI turned off because I don't want to have to drag his ass back to the dungeon to complete his quest when he inevitably dies in battle and I have to resurrect him.

 

[Desiderius]

I haven't been using Harrim so I built him as a straight Cleric and brought him to the Dwarf Ruins for his quest. I know you all think all the companions are awesome, and basically all of the companions have grown on me after I've realized what they're useful for, but Harrim is complete and utter shit. He's a completely shit cleric and completely shit at being a tank. I regret not making him a druid or something, so at least he'd have an animal.

Yet again, it's you that sucks, not Harrim.

Another example of same phenomenon as above, but at least Incorrect Charlie here is playing the game.

First of all, fuck you. You're a massive fucking asshole who seems to do nothing but sit on this thread all day and gatekeep this game. It's a fucking single player game. I don't understand why you have to be such a fucking asshole about it as it's not a competition.

Second, everything I've read everywhere says Harrim is shit as a cleric on Unfair. It's not just me saying it. Tristian is an awesome cleric, while Valerie is an awesome tank. Harrim is shit at both, and he's never as good at either role as either of those 2 if you neglect one role for the other, and if you try to do both, he's completely mediocre. Maybe he's fine early game when you have no other better options, or late game when you have tons of items to work with, but he's completely shit at level 6-7 while doing the troll trouble quest, to the point that I actually just stopped using him entirely. I beat the final bosses with just my MC Ranger, Valerie, the Gnome dude, the NPC ranger, and my Sylvan Sorcerer Merc with Varic standing in another room with his AI turned off because I don't want to have to drag his ass back to the dungeon to complete his quest when he inevitably dies in battle and I have to resurrect him.

Because you’re being a fucking asshole. Tit for tat.

Stop.

Damn right I’m gatekeeping to keep your retarded approach to gaming out. From what I can tell it’s highly contagious and takes all the fun out of any game, but especially throwbacks like this one that require some time and engagement before jumping to conclusions.

 

[Desiderius]

I haven't been using Harrim so I built him as a straight Cleric and brought him to the Dwarf Ruins for his quest. I know you all think all the companions are awesome, and basically all of the companions have grown on me after I've realized what they're useful for, but Harrim is complete and utter shit. He's a completely shit cleric and completely shit at being a tank. I regret not making him a druid or something, so at least he'd have an animal.

Yet again, it's you that sucks, not Harrim.

Another example of same phenomenon as above, but at least Incorrect Charlie here is playing the game.

First of all, fuck you. You're a massive fucking asshole who seems to do nothing but sit on this thread all day and gatekeep this game. It's a fucking single player game. I don't understand why you have to be such a fucking asshole about it as it's not a competition.

Second, everything I've read everywhere says Harrim is shit as a cleric on Unfair. It's not just me saying it. Tristian is an awesome cleric, while Valerie is an awesome tank. Harrim is shit at both, and he's never as good at either role as either of those 2 if you neglect one role for the other, and if you try to do both, he's completely mediocre. Maybe he's fine early game when you have no other better options, or late game when you have tons of items to work with, but he's completely shit at level 6-7 while doing the troll trouble quest, to the point that I actually just stopped using him entirely. I beat the final bosses with just my MC Ranger, Valerie, the Gnome dude, the NPC ranger, and my Sylvan Sorcerer Merc with Varic standing in another room with his AI turned off because I don't want to have to drag his ass back to the dungeon to complete his quest when he inevitably dies in battle and I have to resurrect him.

Read better players.

Hurr durr, unfair. Are you an InEffective sock puppet?

 

[Desiderius]

(1) Harrim has two of the most powerful abilities in the game (his Domain abilities)

(2) He gets +4 AC vs Giants (this includes Trolls)

Those two alone make him perfectly suited for Trobold/Hargulka.

Maybe try not rushing there at level 6 next time.

Tristian is the one who really isn’t up to speed yet at that point.

 

[Correct_Carlo]

I haven't been using Harrim so I built him as a straight Cleric and brought him to the Dwarf Ruins for his quest. I know you all think all the companions are awesome, and basically all of the companions have grown on me after I've realized what they're useful for, but Harrim is complete and utter shit. He's a completely shit cleric and completely shit at being a tank. I regret not making him a druid or something, so at least he'd have an animal.

Yet again, it's you that sucks, not Harrim.

Another example of same phenomenon as above, but at least Incorrect Charlie here is playing the game.

First of all, fuck you. You're a massive fucking asshole who seems to do nothing but sit on this thread all day and gatekeep this game. It's a fucking single player game. I don't understand why you have to be such a fucking asshole about it as it's not a competition.

Second, everything I've read everywhere says Harrim is shit as a cleric on Unfair. It's not just me saying it. Tristian is an awesome cleric, while Valerie is an awesome tank. Harrim is shit at both, and he's never as good at either role as either of those 2 if you neglect one role for the other, and if you try to do both, he's completely mediocre. Maybe he's fine early game when you have no other better options, or late game when you have tons of items to work with, but he's completely shit at level 6-7 while doing the troll trouble quest, to the point that I actually just stopped using him entirely. I beat the final bosses with just my MC Ranger, Valerie, the Gnome dude, the NPC ranger, and my Sylvan Sorcerer Merc with Varic standing in another room with his AI turned off because I don't want to have to drag his ass back to the dungeon to complete his quest when he inevitably dies in battle and I have to resurrect him.

Because you’re being a fucking asshole. Tit for tat.

Stop.

Stop what? I'm not even fucking replying to you or talking to you, and I haven't engaged you in anyway beyond our first interaction 2 weeks ago when (surprise, surprise) you were a massive asshole. I'm just talking about the game and you come in with your snarky know-it-all bullshit constantly. And you do it with everyone, not just me. Please fuck off and quit replying to me. Thus far, I've seen you offer jack shit in terms of practical advice to anyone in this thread. You just make snarky comments about how much everyone else sucks at playing a single player game.

 

[Desiderius]

(1) When you make categorical statements you’re engaging with everyone. “Harrim sucks” is a categorical statement. “I’m having trouble getting much out of Harrim” isn’t.

(2) Categorical statements from new players who lack the experience to make valid ones are spam.

(3) False categorical statements like yours with Harrim lead to situations where new players start saying things like “everything I’ve read about Harrim says he sux.” So I’m engaging to prevent that.

 

[Desiderius]

I've seen you offer jack shit in terms of practical advice

Look harder fucktard.

Or, you know, ask.

 

[Sarathiour]

Carlo, gatekeeping is specially made for people like you to prevent going around spouting bullshit. Does not work very well in your case, but well, you're not exactly a learning animal.

You insist on playing on a autistically high difficulty while still not having a good grasp on the mechanism of the game. This is entirely on you.

 

[Desiderius]

know-it-all

This is interesting. The tranny dumbass from Owlcat gave that as the reasoning for banning me from OC/Steam. Not being a dick there since those aren't the Codex just being a know-it-all.

I do not in fact know it all, not close. But unlike Carlo and Manatee and Serus I do refrain from posting when I don't know the specific thing I'm talking about so I guess someone could get that impression. But they'd be wrong.

 

[Blackmill]

Finally decided to give this game a try. Spent way too long on character creation, especially since I installed the Call of the Wild mod, and I've never played DnD before.

One thing I'm surprised by is, despite the huge number of spells and abilities, I find the combat to be pretty straightforward. Between the cover system being very simple, there being no consequence for slowly defeating the enemy with basic attacks and lower level spells, and many spells having a very specific use case, the list of reasonable actions to take during any turn seems extremely short. Unfortunately, most fights have been basic attacks plus 0-3 lower level spells. Fights against very tough enemies only differ by having to pre-buff, initiating combat with 1-2 AOE control spells, and using greater invisibility on my rogue for damage. Maybe the gameplay becomes more interesting at higher levels? I'm currently approaching level 11.

In any case, I'm enjoying the game despite not being too thrilled by the combat, so I'm planning to finish the game at least once.

 

[Yosharian]

Finally decided to give this game a try. Spent way too long on character creation, especially since I installed the Call of the Wild mod, and I've never played DnD before.

One thing I'm surprised by is, despite the huge number of spells and abilities, I find the combat to be pretty straightforward. Between the cover system being very simple, there being no consequence for slowly defeating the enemy with basic attacks and lower level spells, and many spells having a very specific use case, the list of reasonable actions to take during any turn seems extremely short. Unfortunately, most fights have been basic attacks plus 0-3 lower level spells. Fights against very tough enemies only differ by having to pre-buff, initiating combat with 1-2 AOE control spells, and using greater invisibility on my rogue for damage. Maybe the gameplay becomes more interesting at higher levels? I'm currently approaching level 11.

In any case, I'm enjoying the game despite not being too thrilled by the combat, so I'm planning to finish the game at least once.

If you want a more challenging experience without the ridiculous things that Unfair comes with (like double damage taken) you can increase enemy stats to 'Insane'.

If you use the following mod:

Difficulty Modifiers Scale With Level
https://www.nexusmods.com/pathfinderkingmaker/mods/193

Then these stat increases are on a curve depending on your level (hacky way to do it but it's fine in practice) meaning that they scale as you progress in the game.

I would recommend this as otherwise the game has a very poor difficulty curve. But only if you aren't finding the game too challenging, and want a more tactical experience.

 

[Blackmill]

Finally decided to give this game a try. Spent way too long on character creation, especially since I installed the Call of the Wild mod, and I've never played DnD before.

One thing I'm surprised by is, despite the huge number of spells and abilities, I find the combat to be pretty straightforward. Between the cover system being very simple, there being no consequence for slowly defeating the enemy with basic attacks and lower level spells, and many spells having a very specific use case, the list of reasonable actions to take during any turn seems extremely short. Unfortunately, most fights have been basic attacks plus 0-3 lower level spells. Fights against very tough enemies only differ by having to pre-buff, initiating combat with 1-2 AOE control spells, and using greater invisibility on my rogue for damage. Maybe the gameplay becomes more interesting at higher levels? I'm currently approaching level 11.

In any case, I'm enjoying the game despite not being too thrilled by the combat, so I'm planning to finish the game at least once.

If you want a more challenging experience without the ridiculous things that Unfair comes with (like double damage taken) you can increase enemy stats to 'Insane'.

If you use the following mod:

Difficulty Modifiers Scale With Level
https://www.nexusmods.com/pathfinderkingmaker/mods/193

Then these stat increases are on a curve depending on your level (hacky way to do it but it's fine in practice) meaning that they scale as you progress in the game.

I would recommend this as otherwise the game has a very poor difficulty curve. But only if you aren't finding the game too challenging, and want a more tactical experience.

Yeah, how the games difficulty works is definitely a gripe of mine. I think I've set a custom difficulty that's somewhere between hard and unfair. But looks like your mod would work better. That said, I think my complaint is less about the game being challenging, and more about the way it is challenging. I like having to deliberate over several options. I don't really get that experience with Pathfinder even though I've experimented with the full range of difficulties. I've found that increasing the difficulty usually just reinforces the choices I'm already making. For instance, further increasing the enemies AC just means that my guaranteed damage sources, which I already rely on heavily, or even more relied on.

 

[Darth Canoli]

It's misleading though. Once you reach level 5 the difficulty kind of goes down. Especially when you start prebuffing with good spells.

There are mods to help with this. I'm playing an extremely optimised party and I have found at least some challenge

I'm playing with the stolen lands encounter mod, which has nothing to do with the DLC and adds some enemies here and there.
I wish it added one elite monsters (aka, upgrade from most encounters) here and there as well but so far, it does the job, still easy but better.

Kingmaker's difficulty options, as the whole thing, aren't very good, I wish I could upgrade enemies levels or each area could have some limited level scaling, like in Wiz 8 (this area goes from level 6 to 9, maybe with options to stay 1 level below the party, when possible, within the range).

Also, it's lacking a good enemy AI like in KotC 2 and of course, good encounter design.

Still, it feels like the DE came with some optimization, this or the "new" save optimization mod do wonders (removes history from saves).

 

[Yosharian]

Yeah ok but who wants to use COTW

 

[Average Manatee]

It's a really shame the game can't just auto level up or down encounters like a DM would. Hgher difficulties could just add +10%/20%/30% to encounter CR and the game would play much better.

 

[Blackmill]

Does any one know exactly the requirements for Irlene to appear? The wiki just says the arcane stat needs to be unlocked. But I have that with over 20 points. I'm a little concerned that she's bugged in my game, since neither Jubilost nor Ekundo showed up in their locations for me.

 

[Average Manatee]

Has troll trouble not started? I know that can block Jubilost, probably Ekundayo as well. Not sure about Irlene.

 

[Blackmill]

Has troll trouble not started? I know that can block Jubilost, probably Ekundayo as well. Not sure about Irlene.

I can't recall when I first went to where Jubilost should be. I think I visited the Ruined Watchtower during Troll Trouble and didn't see Ekundayo. Maybe it was because I avoided the trolls and Kobold near the SE corner of the map. I'm now a few weeks past finishing the Season of Bloom.

 

[Average Manatee]

Has troll trouble not started? I know that can block Jubilost, probably Ekundayo as well. Not sure about Irlene.

I can't recall when I first went to where Jubilost should be. I think I visited the Ruined Watchtower during Troll Trouble and didn't see Ekundayo. Maybe it was because I avoided the trolls and Kobold near the SE corner of the map. I'm now a few weeks past finishing the Season of Bloom.

If you're that far into the main questline then something is up, unless there's something incredibly basic that's you're missing which is an unlisted requirements because everyone else normally already has it. Or you skipped past Irlene and told her to fuck off without realizing it?

 

[Blackmill]

If you're that far into the main questline then something is up, unless there's something incredibly basic that's you're missing which is an unlisted requirements because everyone else normally already has it. Or you skipped past Irlene and told her to fuck off without realizing it?

I definitely never spoke to her. At most, I might have not talked to her, but I remember checking for her appearance during Troll Trouble and didn't see her. I never had her appear in the throne room, if that precedes her being in Tuskdale.

 

[Yosharian]

Does any one know exactly the requirements for Irlene to appear? The wiki just says the arcane stat needs to be unlocked. But I have that with over 20 points. I'm a little concerned that she's bugged in my game, since neither Jubilost nor Ekundo showed up in their locations for me.

According to my notes, she appears when you unlock the Magister role

 

[Desiderius]

Hadn't realized how long its been since I played this. Forgotten so much, and really emphasizes how far downhill Owlcat has gone from areas like Abandoned Hut to garbage like Through the Ashes.

Early game P:K is about as good as it gets once you get through the tutorial. Tho the Boggart areas regrettably give you a preview of coming (half-assed) attractions.

Playing CotW and its really hit or miss on what he did to the companions. Jae and Reg are godlike (the ranged Teamwork Feats added by CotW work perfectly with Inquisitor Solo Tactics), making Harrim Sacred Fist is perfect, but there are definitely some misses. Not a fan or Invulerable Rager or Vindictive Bastard at all. Took Amiri Blood Hunter, just left Val at home. Linzi with super Aid Another and Versatile Performance is both good thematically and gives her some good action econ.

 

[Cael]

Does any one know exactly the requirements for Irlene to appear? The wiki just says the arcane stat needs to be unlocked. But I have that with over 20 points. I'm a little concerned that she's bugged in my game, since neither Jubilost nor Ekundo showed up in their locations for me.

Is your capital a town?

 

[Desiderius]

MC Aldori Defender/Drill Sergeant is so good.

Drill Sergeant gives Tactican and three TW Feats (Shake it Off at lvl 2), Social Trait Adopted (Intrepid Volunteer) gives DEX to CMB, Regional Trait gives +1 Mobility and makes it Class Skill, you can trade Skilled for three Skill Focuses at 1,6, and 11 I think. Going for Persuasion, Stealth, and Mobility.

Swordplay Style gives +1 Shield AC and cancels Combat Expertise malus for first atk each round (i.e. the Disarm*), Swordplay Upset gives free Feint whenever something attacks you and misses**. Osyluth Guile gives CHR bonus to Dodge without having to splash.

Bosses will be tanked.

* - Disarm can replace an atk like PnP instead of Standard Action

** - Shatter is PnP style where you have to hit first, making Feint much better