KickStarter Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Chippy]

Wait so you take 1 level in vivisectionist for the sneak attack bonus with literally every class

ROFL that's genius

Things that would be considered munchkinism by any measure.[/QUOTE]

I'm reading this as: if you take a single level in vivisectionist the sneak attack progression applies to your total character level and not your vivisectionist level.
That can't be right?.

 

[Chippy]

Ok this is getting a bit silly now, is anyone else getting a bug where your whole party goes into slow motion mode? Like if your characters are exhausted or if it was raining. It's happening randomly, but I think it might be to do with Linzi's bard song.
One of the main reasons I keep posting inane questions here is that I keep having to exit the game and load again to solve it.

 

[Jasede]

That's not a bug, your speed is absolutely crippled due to storm/rain travel speed rules. Just rest until it stops raining.

Or enjoy getting fried by random bolts of lightning.



Edit: I can't read.

 

[Reinhardt]

It's good to be bad. Just made goblin merchant cry.

 

[Shadenuat]

That's not a bug, your speed is absolutely crippled due to storm/rain travel speed rules. Just rest until it stops raining.

Or enjoy getting fried by random bolts of lightning.

he said "as if"

it happened when 1 character was slowed for some reason; but it should have been fixed in beta or 1.16

 

[razvedchiki]

I made a grenadier custom npc to infuse my aldori swordmaster and boy it feels like cheating,i have like 10 bobms per day! If jubilost has precise bobms i will keep him.

 

[Serus]

Focusing Dex over Strength gives you, say, an extra +2, maybe +3 AC.

There are bracers of armor +8. So you lose exactly 1 point compared to full plate but will have uncapped DEX mod. You can wear a robe and use the spell magic vestment to gain armor enhancement bonus on that robe. You can dip into monk to gain CHA or WIS to AC, which even when you start with only 12 or 14 will eventually be another +5 or +6 due to mental perfection items.

Sure you can and using monk dip can lead to to what you describe. However, afaik, this discussion started as comparison between STR based vs DEX based Thug debuffer who would take use of his frightening special. Whether one wants or doesn't want to dip into monk is a different issue. Plus I believe the monk bonus doesn't work when you're using a shield so it's a pure gain only if you are not planning to do that. Which might or might not be the case. In short, you are not wrong but you are introducing many additional variables, it muddies the water and makes any comparison even less clear.

 

[Grunker]

Cael and Luckmann

What the Bracers of Armor section states is that Bracers of Armor can be enchanted with Special Abilities.

An enhancement bonus is NOT a special ability. Hardiness or Deathless or whatever is. So unless you can provide an official source that states the opposite (which might exist - I haven't really used these rules much as I play with sensible groups that don't use obvious RAW-holes), Luckmann, you can't add a +1 enhancement bonus to a pair of Bracers of Armor by spending 1,000 gold. You could add Deathless, however. Even then, I would argue that you add special abilities by upping the bonus of the Bracers themselves, and not by paying by a seperate system as if the bracers were a set of unenchanted armor (though I admit that how this works is unclear in the BoA-entry).

This is further reinforced by this bit:

In addition to an enhancement bonus, armor may have special abilities

Clarifying that enhancement bonus and special abilities are two different things.

 

[Grunker]

Also, bracers are explicitly not part of armor, Cael. You're arguing semantics when you should be arguing RAW, by which they're a specific item slot seperate to armor.

 

[The Avatar]

I hope you see the problem, Grunker . Paisuck has taken muchkinism to new levels.

I don't see the problem here, though. Mind explaining it?

I have made several posts before explaining the balancing act that is 3.5. Wealth-by-level, stats, items, etc., all affect the CR of a monster, which then affect the XP gain and basically the entire system. The other part of it is that each item slot has a suggested restrictions placed on them. This means that you run into situations where you want to wear 3 rings, for example, but are limited to 2. You have to make a choice and consider oppotunity costs.

What Paisuck did was to inflate numbers, open up the slot effects and basically did everything they could to increase the power creep to, by 3.5 measures, astronomical levels. This will have a massive effect on the whole CR system, and goes a long way to explaining why Kingmaker is so out of whack in terms of challenge level and bloating.

Paisuck will have to basically re-engineer the whole system to a point they might as well abandon the whole d20 concept altogether. And as someone has already noted here recently, PF 2.0 is psychotic with the munchkinism and power bloat.

3.5 and Pathfinder are both broken. There is no balance at all. Don't even try to justify it with out-of-whack wealth level and CR's. That's just not the reason why the system is broken. It's broken because it doesn't scale well over 20 levels, and because many options are inherently better than others.

4th edition tried to "balance" the game and look what happened with that. Not everything has to be balanced. You try to start balancing a system and it comes across as a boring MMO-style game. Balance = boring.

 

[Jasede]

They do hit, it's just rare. Or maybe I was drunk.

 

[Grunker]

The systems are broken because they are 1) huge and complex 2) have unbounded scaling allover the place.

Saying 3.5 and Pathfinder are a careful balancing act betrays great unfamiliarity with them. Anyone who has played multiple campaigns in those systems realize that they trade off balance for complexity and variety. That's why it requires some work from the GM and the players to make sure you have a functional experience, especially beyond level 7-8. If you don't, you typically end up in a situation where one party member can be a God and the other deal 15 damage per round. If everyone at the table are very experienced with the rules and build great characters, Initiative becomes the most important stat from level ~12 and beyond since combat will effectively be over after a round in most cases.

This is not a criticism per se, because like I said, it's a trade-off. I don't know of other systems where you can have as much fun perusing all the options, pondering all the cool stuff you could do and so on. It's just that the massive amount of options comes at a price.

 

[Chippy]

That's not a bug, your speed is absolutely crippled due to storm/rain travel speed rules. Just rest until it stops raining.

Or enjoy getting fried by random bolts of lightning.

he said "as if"

it happened when 1 character was slowed for some reason; but it should have been fixed in beta or 1.16

Yep, it's the whole party - I worded it badly in trying to ward off anyone thinking I was confused with the slow from it raining. Everyone slows - including their combat animations.
Personally, after this much exiting to desktop and reloading - I think I'd rather it was from the weather and my party take the random lightning bolts to the face.

 

[Jasede]

This game is SO fucking long. I am 103 hours in on my first savegame and I feel like I am only 75% done. I just did the Rushlight tournament and there's so much more ahead and I haven't explored the area around Pitax yet, either. I also spent all my gold and have none left because BP and the nice gear at the tournament are expensive. One of the better economies as far as RPGs.

 

[Luckmann]

Ok this is getting a bit silly now, is anyone else getting a bug where your whole party goes into slow motion mode? Like if your characters are exhausted or if it was raining. It's happening randomly, but I think it might be to do with Linzi's bard song.
One of the main reasons I keep posting inane questions here is that I keep having to exit the game and load again to solve it.

Are you sure that none of your selected characters are sneaking? It happens to me all the time that after a quick combat, someone is still sneaking, and the entire group, when everyone is selected, moves at the speed of the slowest member, even if that member is sneaking and no-one else is. Try going into stealth with everyone and then out of it.

Just a thought.

 

[Shadenuat]

As if Evokers already weren't good now they get ice prison and mass ice prison. Someone is a big fan of Lina Inverse and fireballs.
But at least they added Stone to Flesh & Power Word Kill, however useless the last one is. And I think Diviner's 9th level spells automatically indentifies every monster stat.
They should at least add BG2 stuff to Diviners. Arcane Eye wasn't actually completely useless in that game even without mods. Pair it with new Inspect feature and you have a winning combo.

 

[Reinhardt]

Ok, Pitax and its bugs keep things interesting and unique. After loading save game decided for some reason to rotate camera

 

[Ziggy]

scrounging through indies on steam found what is basically anime Kingmaker
party rpg with kingdom building focus, made in eastern europe, complete with time locked chapters and abundance of loading screens
turnbased and after a couple hours, surprisingly decent, despite its art style

Spoiler

regaliagame.com

 

[Elex]

3.5 and Pathfinder are both broken. There is no balance at all. Don't even try to justify it with out-of-whack wealth level and CR's. That's just not the reason why the system is broken. It's broken because it doesn't scale well over 20 levels, and because many options are inherently better than others.

4th edition tried to "balance" the game and look what happened with that. Not everything has to be balanced. You try to start balancing a system and it comes across as a boring MMO-style game. Balance = boring.

also because is not the point of TT rpg being a balanced game.

 

[Yosharian]

The systems are broken because they are 1) huge and complex 2) have unbounded scaling allover the place.

Saying 3.5 and Pathfinder are a careful balancing act betrays great unfamiliarity with them. Anyone who has played multiple campaigns in those systems realize that they trade off balance for complexity and variety. That's why it requires some work from the GM and the players to make sure you have a functional experience, especially beyond level 7-8. If you don't, you typically end up in a situation where one party member can be a God and the other deal 15 damage per round. If everyone at the table are very experienced with the rules and build great characters, Initiative becomes the most important stat from level ~12 and beyond since combat will effectively be over after a round in most cases.

I use Popcorn Initiative in my games =)

 

[Zero Credibility]

4th edition tried to "balance" the game and look what happened with that. Not everything has to be balanced. You try to start balancing a system and it comes across as a boring MMO-style game. Balance = boring.

Ironically, that's exactly the direction Paizo is taking Pathfinder 2. Balanced. Banal. Boring.

 

[Sykar]

As if Evokers already weren't good now they get ice prison and mass ice prison. Someone is a big fan of Lina Inverse and fireballs.
But at least they added Stone to Flesh & Power Word Kill, however useless the last one is. And I think Diviner's 9th level spells automatically indentifies every monster stat.
They should at least add BG2 stuff to Diviners. Arcane Eye wasn't actually completely useless in that game even without mods. Pair it with new Inspect feature and you have a winning combo.

I still hope for Time Stop, Wish, Chain Contingency and Shape Change to be added. Especially Time Stop, my favorite spell ever.

 

[Lawntoilet]

4th edition tried to "balance" the game and look what happened with that. Not everything has to be balanced. You try to start balancing a system and it comes across as a boring MMO-style game. Balance = boring.

Ironically, that's exactly the direction Paizo is taking Pathfinder 2. Balanced. Banal. Boring.

Among other issues - the PF2 Paladin is an absolute abomination that is shoehorned into a boring babysitter role. Heavy armor is a disaster and Str is even more of a dump stat than it is in 5e. I don't like the critical rules either.
I'm very glad Owlcat used 1e rules for this game, and I hope Paizo doesn't push the new rules on them for any potential sequels without a complete overhaul.

 

[The Avatar]

I doubt they would completely change the rules, given that they can't even implement the existing rules without bugs. I do wonder if it would be like in the early days of 3rd edition. The 3rd edition rules actually came out before Baldur's Gate 2, so the devs decided to shoehorn in some of the fancy new 3e content like half-orcs, barbarians, and sorcerers.

 

[Paul_cz]

Colleague at work who loves Torment and BG2 insisted that this is better than BG2 eventhough it has some SJW stuff in it, but mostly well enough done not to be annoying.

True?