KickStarter Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Lyre Mors]

How's the 1.1 beta treating everyone? Should I opt into it and start playing in earnest again, or wait for the official release of this patch. I pine for the Stolen Lands.

 

[Jasede]

I have a lot more fun in it due to the small but high-impact quality of life changes, faster load times and many little fixes. Plus, I have wings now. No reason not to, I think. The new icons look spiffy too.

 

[gestalt11]

How's the 1.1 beta treating everyone? Should I opt into it and start playing in earnest again, or wait for the official release of this patch. I pine for the Stolen Lands.

Welllllllll I dunno the beta might have bugs .....

Maybe it would be safer to wait ...

 

[Lyre Mors]

Oh shit, can you not use old saves with the patch beta? I can't continue or load games when I start it up after installing the 1.1 beta.

 

[Risewild]

Oh shit, can you not use old saves with the patch beta? I can't continue or load games when I start it up after installing the 1.1 beta.

In order to keep your saves unaffected, we have created a separate folder for your beta saves (this is the reason why cloud saving will not be available). If you want to continue your main playthrough in the beta, simply open your Pathfinder: Kingmaker folder and copy the files from the 'Saved Games' folder over to 'Saved Games Test'.

To take part in this beta test, you will need to switch to the 'betatest' branch. Here’s how it’s done:

I. (optional) If you want to continue your main playthrough in the beta, copy your save files from "C:\Users\%username%\AppData\LocalLow\Owlcat Games\Pathfinder Kingmaker\Saved Games"
to
"C:\Users\%username%\AppData\LocalLow\Owlcat Games\Pathfinder Kingmaker\Saved Games Test".
To avoid problems with the main version of the game, we don't want the beta version to mess with your Version 1.0 saves. For the same reason cloud saving will not be available for the beta test.

 

[Lyre Mors]

Ah, so it is potentially dangerous to play the beta with current savegames. Guess the wait continues

 

[Fedora Master]

 

[Sykar]

And how in the world is that supposed to be possible?

Let's say we top out at a Dex score of 36. That's +13 AC from Dex alone, +4-5 from Mage Armor/Bracers.

How could a strength build possibly compete? You can slap some +2 plate on there, and maybe a tower shield, I guess? But... eh, that's neither very roguish nor thuggish, is it?

Focusing Dex over Strength gives you, say, an extra +2, maybe +3 AC. Another 5 points from levelling grants you another 2-3. So it's about 6 AC at the most, unless you're really desperate for attribute points.

Everything else can be done exactly the same on a Strength build. Also, with the feat you save from not getting Weapon Finesse, you could get Dodge, which lessens the gap between the two.

I do not see why a dex rogue could not get the Dodge feat.

 

[Risewild]

And how in the world is that supposed to be possible?

Let's say we top out at a Dex score of 36. That's +13 AC from Dex alone, +4-5 from Mage Armor/Bracers.

How could a strength build possibly compete? You can slap some +2 plate on there, and maybe a tower shield, I guess? But... eh, that's neither very roguish nor thuggish, is it?

Focusing Dex over Strength gives you, say, an extra +2, maybe +3 AC. Another 5 points from levelling grants you another 2-3. So it's about 6 AC at the most, unless you're really desperate for attribute points.

Everything else can be done exactly the same on a Strength build. Also, with the feat you save from not getting Weapon Finesse, you could get Dodge, which lessens the gap between the two.

I do not see why a dex rogue could not get the Dodge feat.

Also, doesn't rogue has a talent to gain Weapon Finesse in Pathfinder? Which means you do not "waste" a feat that could be used to get Dodge, if you can get it for free as a talent.

 

[Sykar]

No idea. But that is why I like 5ed over 3.5ed where you can chose the higher attribute between dexterity or strength for melee weapons for both attack rolls and damage without the need for feats.

 

[razvedchiki]

Persuasion checks give a lot of xp,i hit lvl 2 before leaving for olegs outpost.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

If you kill the Barghest you apparently get two +4 Kukris, one +2d6 fire and one +2d6 cold. I banished the barghest though so I can't confirm.

You can consider this confirmed. Those kukries are not keen, so it's good to pick up improved critical in anticipation

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Focusing Dex over Strength gives you, say, an extra +2, maybe +3 AC.

There are bracers of armor +8. So you lose exactly 1 point compared to full plate but will have uncapped DEX mod. You can wear a robe and use the spell magic vestment to gain armor enhancement bonus on that robe. You can dip into monk to gain CHA or WIS to AC, which even when you start with only 12 or 14 will eventually be another +5 or +6 due to mental perfection items.

 

[Cael]

Focusing Dex over Strength gives you, say, an extra +2, maybe +3 AC.

There are bracers of armor +8. So you lose exactly 1 point compared to full plate but will have uncapped DEX mod. You can wear a robe and use the spell magic vestment to gain armor enhancement bonus on that robe. You can dip into monk to gain CHA or WIS to AC, which even when you start with only 12 or 14 will eventually be another +5 or +6 due to mental perfection items.

Bracers of Armour are supposed to be enhancement bonus. They shouldn't stack with Magic Vestment. Unless Owlcat fucked up again...

 

[Reinhardt]

There are bracers of armor +8. So you lose exactly 1 point compared to full plate

There are lots of good full plates available much earlier than bracers +8. Even if you use teleport to get inside before quest triggers you must actually kill lich for them.
And mithral plates offer bigger max dex bonus, so you can utilize dex items for aditional AC.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

There are bracers of armor +8. So you lose exactly 1 point compared to full plate

There are lots of good full plates available much earlier than bracers +8. Even if you use teleport to get inside before quest triggers you must actually kill lich for them.
And mithral plates offer bigger max dex bonus, so you can utilize dex items for aditional AC.

Speaking of heavy armor with a high DEX cap, has anybody found any celestial armor?

 

[Luckmann]

Focusing Dex over Strength gives you, say, an extra +2, maybe +3 AC.

There are bracers of armor +8. So you lose exactly 1 point compared to full plate but will have uncapped DEX mod. You can wear a robe and use the spell magic vestment to gain armor enhancement bonus on that robe. You can dip into monk to gain CHA or WIS to AC, which even when you start with only 12 or 14 will eventually be another +5 or +6 due to mental perfection items.

Bracers of Armour are supposed to be enhancement bonus. They shouldn't stack with Magic Vestment. Unless Owlcat fucked up again...

Bracers of Armor are explicitly not Enhancement Bonuses, not in 3.5 nor in PF.

It's always been an Armor Bonus, and thus never stacked with regular armors.

IIRC it worked just like armor in 2nd Ed. too, but I can't verify that.

Furthermore, deviating from PnP rules does not constitute a fuckup of any sort. There might be other issues with doing so that may constitute fuckups, but deviating from the PnP rules do not in and of themselves constitute a fuckup, and I'll repeat again: It is fucking retarded to assume that everything that does not conform to the PnP ruleset is a mistake, an oversight, or a bug.

Edit: Added links.

 

[Cael]

Focusing Dex over Strength gives you, say, an extra +2, maybe +3 AC.

There are bracers of armor +8. So you lose exactly 1 point compared to full plate but will have uncapped DEX mod. You can wear a robe and use the spell magic vestment to gain armor enhancement bonus on that robe. You can dip into monk to gain CHA or WIS to AC, which even when you start with only 12 or 14 will eventually be another +5 or +6 due to mental perfection items.

Bracers of Armour are supposed to be enhancement bonus. They shouldn't stack with Magic Vestment. Unless Owlcat fucked up again...

Bracers of Armor are explicitly not Enhancement Bonuses, not in 3.5 nor in PF.

It's always been an Armor Bonus, and thus never stacked with regular armors.

IIRC it worked just like armor in 2nd Ed. too, but I can't verify that.

Edit: Added links.

In 2nd Ed, they just straight up give you the AC as stated, just like normal armour.

I have always thought that the bracers were enhancement bonus, for some reason. However, I am not sure you can claim enhancement bonus from different items. Otherwise, wearing a leather armour +3 under plate armour would give you an AC bonus of +11, which shouldn't be how the thing works.

 

[Luckmann]

I have always thought that the bracers were enhancement bonus, for some reason. However, I am not sure you can claim enhancement bonus from different items. Otherwise, wearing a leather armour +3 under plate armour would give you an AC bonus of +11, which shouldn't be how the thing works.

Provided that the plate armor you're wearing is not magic in any way whatsoever, since they occupy the same slot (and would thus suppress if magic), there would be nothing preventing such use (in 3.5/PF). However, talking about Bracers, since they expressly occupy different slots in terms of magic items, would be able to have Enhancement Bonuses that would not interfere with whatever you're getting (or not getting) from an Armor (as long as it's not an enhancement bonus to the same thing).

In PF, this is even explicit (whereas in 3.5 there's just nothing preventing it, AFAIK), and you can put different kinds of armor enchantments/improvements/special abilities on your armor and on your bracers (of armor) and have them stack. This can lead to some oddities, but nothing out of the ordinary when dealing with 3.PF, which is why DM arbitration exists. It could get costly, though, considering that they need to be magical, with enhancement bonuses not stacking, meaning that almost no matter what, +1 enhancement armor bonus would be "wasted", either on the bracers or on the armor.

In 2nd Ed, they just straight up give you the AC as stated, just like normal armour.

Well then the IE games all "fucked up", because Bracers of Defense do not stack with armors in any of them.

 

[Cael]

I have always thought that the bracers were enhancement bonus, for some reason. However, I am not sure you can claim enhancement bonus from different items. Otherwise, wearing a leather armour +3 under plate armour would give you an AC bonus of +11, which shouldn't be how the thing works.

Provided that the plate armor you're wearing is not magic in any way whatsoever, since they occupy the same slot (and would thus suppress if magic), there would be nothing preventing such use (in 3.5/PF). However, talking about Bracers, since they expressly occupy different slots in terms of magic items, would be able to have Enhancement Bonuses that would not interfere with whatever you're getting (or not getting) from an Armor (as long as it's not an enhancement bonus to the same thing).

In PF, this is even explicit (whereas in 3.5 there's just nothing preventing it, AFAIK), and you can put different kinds of armor enchantments/improvements/special abilities on your armor and on your bracers (of armor) and have them stack. This can lead to some oddities, but nothing out of the ordinary when dealing with 3.PF, which is why DM arbitration exists. It could get costly, though, considering that they need to be magical, with enhancement bonuses not stacking, meaning that almost no matter what, +1 enhancement armor bonus would be "wasted", either on the bracers or on the armor.

In 2nd Ed, they just straight up give you the AC as stated, just like normal armour.

Well then the IE games all "fucked up", because Bracers of Defense do not stack with armors in any of them.

Different armour enchantments stack. However, I am talking about the enhancement bonus to AC. That shouldn't stack. You shouldn't have +3 on one and +1 on the other and pick the best of enhancement and base AC and mix them.

So, for example, I have Bracers of Armour 2 with enhancement bonus of +5 and +5 to Hide and Heavy Fortification. Then I have a plate armour +1 with +10 to Move Silent. If you wear them both, you do get the +5 to Hide, +10 to Move Silent and Heavy Fort. However, what is your AC bonus from the armours? I contend that it is the better of the two as discrete armours (i.e., +7 for the Bracer and +9 for the plate armour) which means you get +9. I do not believe you should get +13 (plate armour base +5 enhancement from bracers enchantment). That is where the sticky part is.

The IE games have it correct. Bracers of Armour gave a straight up AC. Normal armour also gave a straight up AC (chainmail is AC 5 and studded leather is AC 7, for example). They do not stack as they are the same.

 

[Grunker]

Mates, just check the SRD when debating Pathfinder rules. Literally the entire system is available online, free.

3rd, 3.5 and Pathfinder, Bracers give Armor bonus: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/bracers-of-armor/

i.e., Bracers of Armor shouldn't stack with actual armor, so you should just get the highest bonus.

In AD&D (IE games), Bracers set your armor - just like actual armor does, so you just get the best AC of the two.

 

[Cael]

Mates, just check the SRD when debating Pathfinder rules. Literally the entire system is available online, free.

3rd, 3.5 and Pathfinder, Bracers give Armor bonus: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/bracers-of-armor/

i.e., Bracers of Armor shouldn't stack with actual armor, so you should just get the highest bonus.

In AD&D (IE games), Bracers set your armor - just like actual armor does, so you just get the best AC of the two.

Yes. But what about enhancement bonus?

What if I enchant my Bracers of Armour +1 to have an enhancement bonus of +4 while wearing full plate? What is my AC (assuming nothing else and Dex 10)?

 

[Harry Easter]

So, how is it? Are there still many bugs, does the story gets interesting, do decisions matter?

 

[Grunker]

Mates, just check the SRD when debating Pathfinder rules. Literally the entire system is available online, free.

3rd, 3.5 and Pathfinder, Bracers give Armor bonus: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/bracers-of-armor/

i.e., Bracers of Armor shouldn't stack with actual armor, so you should just get the highest bonus.

In AD&D (IE games), Bracers set your armor - just like actual armor does, so you just get the best AC of the two.

Yes. But what about enhancement bonus?

What if I enchant my Bracers of Armour +1 to have an enhancement bonus of +4 while wearing full plate? What is my AC (assuming nothing else and Dex 10)?

The answer to that is also in the SRD

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/basics-ability-scores/glossary/

An enhancement bonus represents an increase in the sturdiness and/or effectiveness of armor or natural armor, or the effectiveness of a weapon, or a general bonus to an ability score. Multiple enhancement bonuses on the same object (in the case of armor and weapons), creature (in the case of natural armor), or ability score do not stack. Only the highest enhancement bonus applies. Since enhancement bonuses to armor or natural armor effectively increase the armor or natural armor’s bonus to AC, they don’t apply against touch attacks.

I.e., enhancement bonus isn't a new type of armor per se, it ups the armor bonus on the item it applies to. Now I don't know how you'd enchant Bracers of Armor with an enhancement bonus (typically, you would craft the item to just be of a higher armor bonus), but even if you did, the item with the highest armor bonus would still apply.

So +4 bracers and +9 plate = you get +9 armor bonus i.e. your AC is 19.

 

[Cael]

Mates, just check the SRD when debating Pathfinder rules. Literally the entire system is available online, free.

3rd, 3.5 and Pathfinder, Bracers give Armor bonus: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/bracers-of-armor/

i.e., Bracers of Armor shouldn't stack with actual armor, so you should just get the highest bonus.

In AD&D (IE games), Bracers set your armor - just like actual armor does, so you just get the best AC of the two.

Yes. But what about enhancement bonus?

What if I enchant my Bracers of Armour +1 to have an enhancement bonus of +4 while wearing full plate? What is my AC (assuming nothing else and Dex 10)?

The answer to that is also in the SRD

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/basics-ability-scores/glossary/

An enhancement bonus represents an increase in the sturdiness and/or effectiveness of armor or natural armor, or the effectiveness of a weapon, or a general bonus to an ability score. Multiple enhancement bonuses on the same object (in the case of armor and weapons), creature (in the case of natural armor), or ability score do not stack. Only the highest enhancement bonus applies. Since enhancement bonuses to armor or natural armor effectively increase the armor or natural armor’s bonus to AC, they don’t apply against touch attacks.

I.e., enhancement bonus isn't a new type of armor per se, it ups the armor bonus on the item it applies to. Now I don't know how you'd enchant Bracers of Armor with an enhancement bonus (typically, you would craft the item to just be of a higher armor bonus), but even if you did, the item with the highest armor bonus would still apply.

So +4 bracers and +9 plate = you get +9 armor bonus.

I completely agree with you. Read my post above.

However, a whole slew of games dictate otherwise, including NWN and, I believe, Kingmaker. I believe that people above also argued for the higher of the two enhancement bonus applying to the higher of the base armour bonus.

As to your question why I would use a bracers of armour +1 +1, well, Bracers of Armour +1 = 1000gp. +1 armour enhancement = 1000gp. Total cost for +2 AC = 2000. Bracers of armour +2 = 4000gp. I saved 2000gp

Mind you, if anyone tries to run that by me when I am DM-ing will get the DMG thrown at him.