KickStarter Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Grunker]

Ah. Well, NWN was weird (because third ed. wasn't always clear, 3.5 was much improved in that regard). You could also reduce your crit threat to 12-20 or even 10-20 in that game

As for the higher of the two enhancement boni, that should not be the case raw. It should just give you the highest of the two items in isolation. If it doesn't in Kingmaker that's not RAW.

And I'm preeeetty sure (though not 100% certain) that you can't put an enchancement bonus on Brancers of Armor? They're a set magic item. Just like you can't put an enhancement bonus on a stat-boosting item in that way. So again if Kingmaker allows that I don't think it's RAW.

 

[Cael]

Ah. Well, NWN was weird (because third ed. wasn't always clear, 3.5 was much improved in that regard). You could also reduce your crit threat to 12-20 or even 10-20 in that game

As for the higher of the two enhancement boni, that should not be the case raw. It should just give you the highest of the two items in isolation. If it doesn't in Kingmaker that's not RAW.

And I'm preeeetty sure (though not 100% certain) that you can't put an enchancement bonus on Brancers of Armor? They're a set magic item. Just like you can't put an enhancement bonus on a stat-boosting item in that way.

Stat boosting items should be enhancement also.

In 3.0, Inproved Critical stacked with Keen. They took it out in 3.5.

The problem with RAW is that, well, the fanbois here spits on RAW. They simply don't give a shit about RAW. I still have butthurt fanbois stalking me because I pointed out all the non-RAW and stupid things the HBS game did months ago. Even in this thread, they are butthurt when I pointed out non-RAW PF stuff. Like the sneak attack nonsense and the consequence of stat bloat. The state of RPG gamers these days is pure fucking .

 

[Grunker]

Cael Stat boosting items IS enhancement but their "upgrade" path is set in stone (gold cost etc.). That's how it works for the bracers too - you can't put a +1 enhancement armor bonus on them since they're not armor (at least if I'm correct about that - I'm pretty sure like I said but not 100%).

If you want to enhcant bracers of armor (with either an enhancement bonus or an equivalent armor special ability), you have to pay the costs listed under the enchantment rules for the item.

 

[Grunker]

I'm completely fine with things not being RAW if we're talking thought-through changes to improve how the game plays in an RTwP environment and the way the PC game works as well.

I have a million house rules we use for my Pathfinder campaign after all, why wouldn't I be cool with RAW changes made for a specific reason.

 

[Elex]

No idea. But that is why I like 5ed over 3.5ed where you can chose the higher attribute between dexterity or strength for melee weapons for both attack rolls and damage without the need for feats.

5ed fixed that yes, instead of put in an endless list of feat, a lot of stuff is “built in” the game rules, and feats are equivalent to 3-4 of the 3.5 fewt

you are still limited to use certain weapons, but the only bad thing is how dual wield work

 

[Cael]

Cael Stat boosting items IS enhancement but their "upgrade" path is set in stone (gold cost etc.). That's how it works for the bracers too - you can't put a +1 enhancement armor bonus on them since they're not armor (at least if I'm correct about that - I'm pretty sure like I said but not 100%).

If you want to enhcant bracers of armor (with either an enhancement bonus or an equivalent armor special ability), you have to pay the costs listed under the enchantment rules for the item.

It can be argued that if they give basic armour bonus, then that can be enhanced. That was why I had always thought bracers of armour gave a straight up enhancement bonus rather than base armour bonus.

There are a lot of inconsistencies with the magical item costings. For example, look up the cost for an item that gives a constant Mage Armour effect. Compare the cost of that with bracers of armour +4.

It is going to get a lot worse when PF 2.0 comes out. Paitard seem to have gone full munchkin.

 

[Cael]

I'm completely fine with things not being RAW if we're talking thought-through changes to improve how the game plays in an RTwP environment and the way the PC game works as well.

I have a million house rules we use for my Pathfinder campaign after all, why wouldn't I be cool with RAW changes made for a specific reason.

Thought through? Bwahahahahaha!

Well, we have the sneak attack/flanking nonsense in Kingmaker.

And then we have the knockdown shit in the HBS game. And I won't even go into the fact they multiplied everything out just for bigger numbers for the oooo-shiny! millenial dumbfucks.

 

[Grunker]

Haven't played Pathfinder yet and won't before it's in a very patched state, so can speak to the changes of yet. But increasing AC and HP on higher difficulties sounds fine given the OGL's bias towards attacks vis a vis defence.

 

[Grunker]

Cael Stat boosting items IS enhancement but their "upgrade" path is set in stone (gold cost etc.). That's how it works for the bracers too - you can't put a +1 enhancement armor bonus on them since they're not armor (at least if I'm correct about that - I'm pretty sure like I said but not 100%).

If you want to enhcant bracers of armor (with either an enhancement bonus or an equivalent armor special ability), you have to pay the costs listed under the enchantment rules for the item.

It can be argued that if they give basic armour bonus, then that can be enhanced.

No it can't, not by RAW. The prices for armor enhancements is for armor. Bracers of Armor aren't armor.

 

[Cael]

Haven't played Pathfinder yet and won't before it's in a very patched state, so can speak to the changes of yet. But increasing AC and HP on higher difficulties sounds fine given the OGL's bias towards attacks vis a vis defence.

More than that. Stat bloat means everything is out of whack. HDs are higher, saves are through the roof, damage from mobs means rocket tag, etc. It knocks out a lot of archetypes, and in order to get things to work, you basically have to hyper-specialise, which means set build paths and the like.

On top of that, they made it so that any two people next to the target and it is considered flanked for EVERYONE, with insane consequences for sneak attack, especially ranged sneak attack. And with obvious consequences to builds:

Wait so you take 1 level in vivisectionist for the sneak attack bonus with literally every class

ROFL that's genius

Things that would be considered munchkinism by any measure.

 

[ArchAngel]

I finally finished Act 4,

Spoiler

cleared Vordekai dungeon and killed Vordekai. The fight was pretty pathetic. He kept attacking the cleric that had Death Ward until he died.

What I can take away from it that for first time in my cRPG history something happened. That something is that I had to leave valuable stuff behind on the ground. Due to how encumbrance works, timed quests and location of end game area of Act 4, I doubt I will be going back to pick up leftovers.
Fucking

 

[Cael]

Cael Stat boosting items IS enhancement but their "upgrade" path is set in stone (gold cost etc.). That's how it works for the bracers too - you can't put a +1 enhancement armor bonus on them since they're not armor (at least if I'm correct about that - I'm pretty sure like I said but not 100%).

If you want to enhcant bracers of armor (with either an enhancement bonus or an equivalent armor special ability), you have to pay the costs listed under the enchantment rules for the item.

It can be argued that if they give basic armour bonus, then that can be enhanced.

No it can't, not by RAW. The prices for armor enhancements is for armor. Bracers of Armor aren't armor.

Bracers are (part of) armour, especially plate armour.

 

[Fenix]

Spoiler

 

[Luckmann]

Different armour enchantments stack.

As long as they occupy different slots, yes. You cannot, for example, have a +1 Leather Armor of Stealth +5 underneath a +1 Full Plate of Fortification. Whichever one you occupied last will suppress whichever one is covered. For some reason.

This leads to some interesting ramifications in some cases. It's possible to wear a whole slew of Anklets of Translocation in 3.5, for example, each of them giving Teleport 10f.t. as Swift Action 2/day. But you'll have to take one of them off for each two uses, so you can use the next anklet.

It also begs the question why you can have 1 anklet, but it suppresses the magic of both your shoes, since Anklets of Translocation occupy the Boot slot.

However, I am talking about the enhancement bonus to AC. That shouldn't stack. You shouldn't have +3 on one and +1 on the other and pick the best of enhancement and base AC and mix them.

Exactly, and like I said, that is why it'd be a "waste" with that +1 Enhancement on either the Bracers or the Armor, because to take other magic, the equipment in question needs to also have a minimum of +1 Enhancement (in effect "be magical" to begin with), but it doesn't stack, meaning that at least one enhancement's worth is basically thrown away no matter what you do, if you're using both an Armor and Bracers of Armor as a base for magic.

So, for example, I have Bracers of Armour 2 with enhancement bonus of +5 and +5 to Hide and Heavy Fortification. Then I have a plate armour +1 with +10 to Move Silent. If you wear them both, you do get the +5 to Hide, +10 to Move Silent and Heavy Fort. However, what is your AC bonus from the armours? I contend that it is the better of the two as discrete armours (i.e., +7 for the Bracer and +9 for the plate armour) which means you get +9. I do not believe you should get +13 (plate armour base +5 enhancement from bracers enchantment). That is where the sticky part is.

Assuming you mean "Full Plate Armor" (there is no "Plate Armor", just Breastplate, Half-Plate, etc.), in 3.5 and PF, you'd have an Armor Bonus of +9 to AC from the Full Plate Armor, you'd have an Enhancement Armor Bonus to AC of +5 from the Bracers of Armor, you'd have Heavy Fortification from the Bracers of Armor, you'd have a Hide +5 Competence Bonus from the Bracers of Armor, you'd have a +10 Move Silently Competence Bonus from the Full Plate Armor.

You would not get the Armor Bonus of the Bracers of Armor 2, because the Armor Bonus of +2 from the Bracers would be superseded by Armor Bonus of +9 from the Full Plate Armor.
You would not get the +1 Enhancement Armor Bonus to AC from the Full Plate Armor, because the Enhancement Armor Bonus to AC of +1 would be superseded by the Enhancement Armor Bonus of +5 from the Bracers of Armor.

Also, one minor note in this: There is no "Hide" or "Move Silently" in PF, there is only Stealth. The above applies to 3.5, however. It would be identical in PF, but converting Hide and Move Silently to Stealth, you'd only get the +10 Competence Bonus to Stealth from the Full Plate Armor, superseding the +5 Competence Bonus to Stealth from the Bracers.

Bar any other modifiers (such as Size, Dexterity Modifier, Dodge, Natural Armor, etc.) you'd have a total AC of 10 (Base)+9 (Armor)+5 (Enhancement) = 24.

The IE games have it correct. Bracers of Armour gave a straight up AC. Normal armour also gave a straight up AC (chainmail is AC 5 and studded leather is AC 7, for example). They do not stack as they are the same.

So the Bracers of Defence do not, in fact, "straight up give you the AC as stated", but do indeed work just like in 3.5 in this regard.

Edit: Addendum:

Cael Stat boosting items IS enhancement but their "upgrade" path is set in stone (gold cost etc.). That's how it works for the bracers too - you can't put a +1 enhancement armor bonus on them since they're not armor (at least if I'm correct about that - I'm pretty sure like I said but not 100%).

If you want to enhcant bracers of armor (with either an enhancement bonus or an equivalent armor special ability), you have to pay the costs listed under the enchantment rules for the item.

It can be argued that if they give basic armour bonus, then that can be enhanced.

No it can't, not by RAW. The prices for armor enhancements is for armor. Bracers of Armor aren't armor.

Bracers are (part of) armour, especially plate armour.

Not in D&D/PF. Bracers are a discrete piece of equipment as far as magic goes. Yeah, I'm not sure I agree with how it works all the time, because I think the idea of "armor slots" is a bit game-y, and that things should be allowed to be enchanted magically in a more free-form fashion, limited mostly by the ingenuity and the wealth of the players, but given the runaway nature of powerful magic and items in D&D, this particular aspect was semi-strictly regulated (sometimes to the point of it getting ridiculous).

For full plate, Gloves (i.e. gauntlets) would also arguably be "part of the armor", but they still count as it's own discrete piece in terms of magic. Why gloves and not pauldrons, for example? Why bracers but not leg-straps/leggings? Beats me, but that's the way it is.

Edit 2: Further addendum:

Cael Stat boosting items IS enhancement but their "upgrade" path is set in stone (gold cost etc.). That's how it works for the bracers too - you can't put a +1 enhancement armor bonus on them since they're not armor (at least if I'm correct about that - I'm pretty sure like I said but not 100%).

If you want to enhcant bracers of armor (with either an enhancement bonus or an equivalent armor special ability), you have to pay the costs listed under the enchantment rules for the item.

Bracers of Armor can explicitly be enhanced as if they were Armor, in PF. In 3.5, this is arguably implicit, but very debatable and not worth going into, really. But in PF they outright, no-nonsense, 100% raw, can have magical effects applied to them as if they are Armor, meaning that you can slap a +1 Enhancement Armor Bonus to AC on them and then go to town with all the magic armor effects you can think of, (as always) subject to DM/GM approval (so I wouldn't get my hopes up for Fortification or special materials unless you've got a really good excuse).

I'd argue that they should also qualify as Shields, but that might almost straight-up void the value of shields entirely, if you can just slap Enhancement Shield Bonus to AC onto your bracers. But in my head, it would make more sense, sorta like Wonder Woman's bracers. I'd probably allow it in my own games, though, provided there wasn't already someone that sorta wants to do the whole shield thing. Wouldn't be nice to take away one of the major benefits from another player and give to everyone.

Edit 3: Goddamn, I was wrong on something. You don't actually need to put a +1 Enhancement Bonus on the Bracers of Armor in order for them to have other armor special abilities. They just need to have at least a +1 Armor Bonus, which, all things considered, is a pretty funny rule to have considering that all Bracers of Armor have at least +1 Armor Bonus.

 

[Risewild]

I completely agree with you. Read my post above.

However, a whole slew of games dictate otherwise, including NWN and, I believe, Kingmaker. I believe that people above also argued for the higher of the two enhancement bonus applying to the higher of the base armour bonus.

As to your question why I would use a bracers of armour +1 +1, well, Bracers of Armour +1 = 1000gp. +1 armour enhancement = 1000gp. Total cost for +2 AC = 2000. Bracers of armour +2 = 4000gp. I saved 2000gp

Mind you, if anyone tries to run that by me when I am DM-ing will get the DMG thrown at him.

You can't add enhancement bonus to a Bracers of Armor. Every "+1" you add is an armor bonus, not enhancement bonus.
Bracers of Armor is not an armor, it's a Wondrous Item. Adding +1 to it just ups the Armor Bonus (it's the effect of being a Wondrous Item and not a Magic Armor).

So when you have a Bracers of Armor +1 and add + 1, it doesn't become a Bracers of Armor +1 +1, it becomes a Bracers of Armor +2.

 

[Yosharian]

Focusing Dex over Strength gives you, say, an extra +2, maybe +3 AC.

There are bracers of armor +8. So you lose exactly 1 point compared to full plate but will have uncapped DEX mod. You can wear a robe and use the spell magic vestment to gain armor enhancement bonus on that robe. You can dip into monk to gain CHA or WIS to AC, which even when you start with only 12 or 14 will eventually be another +5 or +6 due to mental perfection items.

I know that, my point was about focusing on Dex over Str.

I think it's worth it if you desperately need the points in other stats, otherwise I don't think it is.

I completely agree with you. Read my post above.

However, a whole slew of games dictate otherwise, including NWN and, I believe, Kingmaker. I believe that people above also argued for the higher of the two enhancement bonus applying to the higher of the base armour bonus.

As to your question why I would use a bracers of armour +1 +1, well, Bracers of Armour +1 = 1000gp. +1 armour enhancement = 1000gp. Total cost for +2 AC = 2000. Bracers of armour +2 = 4000gp. I saved 2000gp

Mind you, if anyone tries to run that by me when I am DM-ing will get the DMG thrown at him.

You can't add enhancement bonus to a Bracers of Armor. Every "+1" you add is an armor bonus, not enhancement bonus.
Bracers of Armor is not an armor, it's a Wondrous Item. Adding +1 to it just ups the Armor Bonus (it's the effect of being a Wondrous Item and not a Magic Armor).

So when you have a Bracers of Armor +1 and add + 1, it doesn't become a Bracers of Armor +1 +1, it becomes a Bracers of Armor +2.

This is academic, anyway. Just grab a friendly Cleric and get them to cast Magic Vestment on you, boom Armor Enhancement bonus. It works even if you're wearing robes.

 

[Cael]

Different armour enchantments stack.

As long as they occupy different slots, yes. You cannot, for example, have a +1 Leather Armor of Stealth +5 underneath a +1 Full Plate of Fortification. Whichever one you occupied last will suppress whichever one is covered. For some reason.

This leads to some interesting ramifications in some cases. It's possible to wear a whole slew of Anklets of Translocation in 3.5, for example, each of them giving Teleport 10f.t. as Swift Action 2/day. But you'll have to take one of them off for each two uses, so you can use the next anklet.

It also begs the question why you can have 1 anklet, but it suppresses the magic of both your shoes, since Anklets of Translocation occupy the Boot slot.

However, I am talking about the enhancement bonus to AC. That shouldn't stack. You shouldn't have +3 on one and +1 on the other and pick the best of enhancement and base AC and mix them.

Exactly, and like I said, that is why it'd be a "waste" with that +1 Enhancement on either the Bracers or the Armor, because to take other magic, the equipment in question needs to also have a minimum of +1 Enhancement (in effect "be magical" to begin with), but it doesn't stack, meaning that at least one enhancement's worth is basically thrown away no matter what you do, if you're using both an Armor and Bracers of Armor as a base for magic.

So, for example, I have Bracers of Armour 2 with enhancement bonus of +5 and +5 to Hide and Heavy Fortification. Then I have a plate armour +1 with +10 to Move Silent. If you wear them both, you do get the +5 to Hide, +10 to Move Silent and Heavy Fort. However, what is your AC bonus from the armours? I contend that it is the better of the two as discrete armours (i.e., +7 for the Bracer and +9 for the plate armour) which means you get +9. I do not believe you should get +13 (plate armour base +5 enhancement from bracers enchantment). That is where the sticky part is.

Assuming you mean "Full Plate Armor" (there is no "Plate Armor", just Breastplate, Half-Plate, etc.), in 3.5 and PF, you'd have an Armor Bonus of +9 to AC from the Full Plate Armor, you'd have an Enhancement Armor Bonus to AC of +5 from the Bracers of Armor, you'd have Heavy Fortification from the Bracers of Armor, you'd have a Hide +5 Competence Bonus from the Bracers of Armor, you'd have a +10 Move Silently Competence Bonus from the Full Plate Armor.

You would not get the Armor Bonus of the Bracers of Armor 2, because the Armor Bonus of +2 from the Bracers would be superseded by Armor Bonus of +9 from the Full Plate Armor.
You would not get the +1 Enhancement Armor Bonus to AC from the Full Plate Armor, because the Enhancement Armor Bonus to AC of +1 would be superseded by the Enhancement Armor Bonus of +5 from the Bracers of Armor.

Also, one minor note in this: There is no "Hide" or "Move Silently" in PF, there is only Stealth. The above applies to 3.5, however. It would be identical in PF, but converting Hide and Move Silently to Stealth, you'd only get the +10 Competence Bonus to Stealth from the Full Plate Armor, superseding the +5 Competence Bonus to Stealth from the Bracers.

Bar any other modifiers (such as Size, Dexterity Modifier, Dodge, Natural Armor, etc.) you'd have a total AC of 10 (Base)+9 (Armor)+5 (Enhancement) = 24.

The IE games have it correct. Bracers of Armour gave a straight up AC. Normal armour also gave a straight up AC (chainmail is AC 5 and studded leather is AC 7, for example). They do not stack as they are the same.

So the Bracers of Defence do not, in fact, "straight up give you the AC as stated", but do indeed work just like in 3.5 in this regard.

Edit: Addendum:

Cael Stat boosting items IS enhancement but their "upgrade" path is set in stone (gold cost etc.). That's how it works for the bracers too - you can't put a +1 enhancement armor bonus on them since they're not armor (at least if I'm correct about that - I'm pretty sure like I said but not 100%).

If you want to enhcant bracers of armor (with either an enhancement bonus or an equivalent armor special ability), you have to pay the costs listed under the enchantment rules for the item.

It can be argued that if they give basic armour bonus, then that can be enhanced.

No it can't, not by RAW. The prices for armor enhancements is for armor. Bracers of Armor aren't armor.

Bracers are (part of) armour, especially plate armour.

Not in D&D/PF. Bracers are a discrete piece of equipment as far as magic goes. Yeah, I'm not sure I agree with how it works all the time, because I think the idea of "armor slots" is a bit game-y, and that things should be allowed to be enchanted magically in a more free-form fashion, limited mostly by the ingenuity and the wealth of the players, but given the runaway nature of powerful magic and items in D&D, this particular aspect was semi-strictly regulated (sometimes to the point of it getting ridiculous).

For full plate, Gloves (i.e. gauntlets) would also arguably be "part of the armor", but they still count as it's own discrete piece in terms of magic. Why gloves and not pauldrons, for example? Why bracers but not leg-straps/leggings? Beats me, but that's the way it is.

Edit 2: Further addendum:

Cael Stat boosting items IS enhancement but their "upgrade" path is set in stone (gold cost etc.). That's how it works for the bracers too - you can't put a +1 enhancement armor bonus on them since they're not armor (at least if I'm correct about that - I'm pretty sure like I said but not 100%).

If you want to enhcant bracers of armor (with either an enhancement bonus or an equivalent armor special ability), you have to pay the costs listed under the enchantment rules for the item.

Bracers of Armor can explicitly be enhanced as if they were Armor, in PF. In 3.5, this is arguably implicit, but very debatable and not worth going into, really. But in PF they outright, no-nonsense, 100% raw, can have magical effects applied to them as if they are Armor, meaning that you can slap a +1 Enhancement Armor Bonus to AC on them and then go to town with all the magic armor effects you can think of, (as always) subject to DM/GM approval (so I wouldn't get my hopes up for Fortification or special materials unless you've got a really good excuse).

I'd argue that they should also qualify as Shields, but that might almost straight-up void the value of shields entirely, if you can just slap Enhancement Shield Bonus to AC onto your bracers. But in my head, it would make more sense, sorta like Wonder Woman's bracers. I'd probably allow it in my own games, though, provided there wasn't already someone that sorta wants to do the whole shield thing. Wouldn't be nice to take away one of the major benefits from another player and give to everyone.

Edit 3: Goddamn, I was wrong on something. You don't actually need to put a +1 Enhancement Bonus on the Bracers of Armor in order for them to have other armor special abilities. They just need to have at least a +1 Armor Bonus, which, all things considered, is a pretty funny rule to have considering that all Bracers of Armor have at least +1 Armor Bonus.

I hope you see the problem, Grunker . Paisuck has taken muchkinism to new levels.

 

[Luckmann]

You can't add enhancement bonus to a Bracers of Armor. Every "+1" you add is an armor bonus, not enhancement bonus.
Bracers of Armor is not an armor, it's a Wondrous Item. Adding +1 to it just ups the Armor Bonus (it's the effect of being a Wondrous Item and not a Magic Armor).

So when you have a Bracers of Armor +1 and add + 1, it doesn't become a Bracers of Armor +1 +1, it becomes a Bracers of Armor +2.

Read my post above yours. You can explicitly enchant Bracers of Armor as if they were Armor in Pathfinder. It is theoretically possible to have +3 Bracers of Armor 5, giving you an Armor Bonus of +5 and an Enhancement Armor Bonus to AC of +3.

Why would you do that, when neither of those things will stack with other sources of Armor Bonus or Enhancement Armor Bonus? Beats me, because it'd be fucking stupid and the opposite of economical.

But you absolutely can do it.

Even if you have a +5 Full Plate, you're far better off getting a pair of Bracers of Armor 1 and then just filling those up with other armor special qualities, because the costs of enchantments on armor scales massively. Putting Spell Storing (with a cost of +1 Enhancement) on a +5 Full Plate would have a market cost of 11 000gp. Putting that same thing on a pair of Bracers of Armor 1 would only cost 3000gp.

Mind everyone, we're dealing with extreme examples here. My point is just that in general, you'll either probably want to use the Bracers of Armor as-is (because you can't wear real armor) or you'll want to put other things than Enhancement Armor Bonuses on them (because you can take that Enhancement Armor Bonus on your armor, anyway, however basic, or for economical reasons). Mixing both Armor Bonus and Enhancement Armor Bonus would be fucking stupid and I have no idea why anyone would do that.

I hope you see the problem, Grunker . Paisuck has taken muchkinism to new levels.

I don't see the problem here, though. Mind explaining it?

 

[Cael]

You can't add enhancement bonus to a Bracers of Armor. Every "+1" you add is an armor bonus, not enhancement bonus.
Bracers of Armor is not an armor, it's a Wondrous Item. Adding +1 to it just ups the Armor Bonus (it's the effect of being a Wondrous Item and not a Magic Armor).

So when you have a Bracers of Armor +1 and add + 1, it doesn't become a Bracers of Armor +1 +1, it becomes a Bracers of Armor +2.

Read my post above yours. You can explicitly enchant Bracers of Armor as if they were Armor in Pathfinder. It is theoretically possible to have +3 Bracers of Armor 5, giving you an Armor Bonus of +5 and an Enhancement Armor Bonus to AC of +3.

Why would you do that, when neither of those things will stack with other sources of Armor Bonus or Enhancement Armor Bonus? Beats me, because it'd be fucking stupid and the opposite of economical.

But you absolutely can do it.

Even if you have a +5 Full Plate, you're far better off getting a pair of Bracers of Armor 1 and then just filling those up with other armor special qualities, because the costs of enchantments on armor scales massively. Putting Spell Storing (with a cost of +1 Enhancement) on a +5 Full Plate would have a market cost of 11 000gp. Putting that same thing on a pair of Bracers of Armor 1 would only cost 3000gp.

Mind everyone, we're dealing with extreme examples here. My point is just that in general, you'll either probably want to use the Bracers of Armor as-is (because you can't wear real armor) or you'll want to put other things than Enhancement Armor Bonuses on them (because you can take that Enhancement Armor Bonus on your armor, anyway, however basic, or for economical reasons). Mixing both Armor Bonus and Enhancement Armor Bonus would be fucking stupid and I have no idea why anyone would do that.

There are good reasons to do so as the two items would be priced seperately, and as prices for items grow geometrically, it is cheaper to have 2x +5 worth of effects than 1x +10 worth of effects. That is assuming you are playing a game that has a nodding acquaintance with the wealth by level table.

Also, you may be in a game where customising your own magic items is not allowed or limited, and you have to make do with what you find.

However, I have to say that any of my players that try that kind of shit (claiming enhancement bonus from one item and applying it to the base armour of another) will get sanctioned pretty damned fast.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

So far I find Bracers of Armor pretty useless because my back lines rarely get attacked in my formation. If enemies come from behind I quickly send Harrim with decent AC to deal with them while my party slaughters the rest before they even get to Tristian or Octavia. I'm only in Act III though but I've got as far as Act IV in a previous run.

As a side note it's awesome they added an inspect enemy skill that is based on lore/world/religion/arcana skill checks. Finally! I've been begging for an RPG to do this and base it on skill checks. I hope that info also gets added to the bestiary at some point.

 

[Risewild]

Read my post above yours. You can explicitly enchant Bracers of Armor as if they were Armor in Pathfinder. It is theoretically possible to have +3 Bracers of Armor 5, giving you an Armor Bonus of +5 and an Enhancement Armor Bonus to AC of +3.

No it is not, the only armor enchantments you can do to bracers of armor is the abilities, not enhancements. They are a Wondrous Item that allows to get armor enchantments, not armor enhancement bonus:

These items appear to be wrist or arm guards, sometimes etched with symbols of protection or depictions of vigilant-looking animals.

Bracers of armor surround the wearer with an invisible but tangible field of force, granting him an armor bonus of +1 to +8, just as though he were wearing armor. Both bracers must be worn for the magic to be effective.

Alternatively, bracers of armor can be enchanted with armor special abilities. See Table: Armor Special Qualities for a list of abilities. Special abilities usually count as additional bonuses for determining the market value of an item, but do not improve AC. Bracers of armor cannot have a modified bonus (armor bonus plus armor special ability bonus equivalents) higher than +8. Bracers of armor must have at least a +1 armor bonus to grant an armor special ability. Bracers of armor cannot have any armor special abilities that add a flat gp amount to their cost. Bracers of armor and ordinary armor do not stack. If a creature receives a larger armor bonus from another source, the bracers of armor cease functioning and do not grant their armor bonus or their armor special abilities. If the bracers of armor grant a larger armor bonus, the other source of armor ceases functioning.

See right there on the description? They can have Armor Special Abilities, not Enhancement Bonus. It's there, black on white.
Also notice how the description calls the "+#" Armor Bonus and not Enhancement Bonus. While on armors and shields, the "+#" are specifically called Enhancement Bonus.

They are different things, and Bracers of Armor can't have Enhancement bonuses, only Armor Bonus and Special Abilities.

Also notice in the last part of the description, it says "If a creature receives a larger armor bonus from another source, the bracers of armor cease functioning and do not grant their armor bonus or their armor special abilities. If the bracers of armor grant a larger armor bonus, the other source of armor ceases functioning." there is no mention of Enhancement bonuses, because those can't be added to the Item.

 

[Cael]

I hope you see the problem, Grunker . Paisuck has taken muchkinism to new levels.

I don't see the problem here, though. Mind explaining it?

I have made several posts before explaining the balancing act that is 3.5. Wealth-by-level, stats, items, etc., all affect the CR of a monster, which then affect the XP gain and basically the entire system. The other part of it is that each item slot has a suggested restrictions placed on them. This means that you run into situations where you want to wear 3 rings, for example, but are limited to 2. You have to make a choice and consider oppotunity costs.

What Paisuck did was to inflate numbers, open up the slot effects and basically did everything they could to increase the power creep to, by 3.5 measures, astronomical levels. This will have a massive effect on the whole CR system, and goes a long way to explaining why Kingmaker is so out of whack in terms of challenge level and bloating.

Paisuck will have to basically re-engineer the whole system to a point they might as well abandon the whole d20 concept altogether. And as someone has already noted here recently, PF 2.0 is psychotic with the munchkinism and power bloat.

 

[Shadenuat]

Trio of autists who never played the game arguing Cael "The Fake News Master" bait

Best read when you eat some kotlet.

 

[Chippy]

Wait so you take 1 level in vivisectionist for the sneak attack bonus with literally every class

ROFL that's genius

Things that would be considered munchkinism by any measure.[/QUOTE]

I'm reading this as: if you take a single level in vivisectionist the sneak attack progression applies to your total character level and not your vivisectionist level.
That can't be right?.

 

[Chippy]

Ok this is getting a bit silly now, is anyone else getting a bug where your whole party goes into slow motion mode? Like if your characters are exhausted or if it was raining. It's happening randomly, but I think it might be to do with Linzi's bard song.
One of the main reasons I keep posting inane questions here is that I keep having to exit the game and load again to solve it.