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Pathfinder Pathfinder: WoTR - What the heck happened to female characters in this game?

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Camellia might be redeemable with the power of romance
I can save her bro!

Ok, you've pwned the fedora crowd. Your ancestors can now rest soundly knowing that they've produced a slayer of the mightiest of beasts.

Seriously, WTF does "romance" have to do with anything? Are you a twelve-year-old girl?
 

Harthwain

Magister
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
Messages
5,435
Games (and the literature that preceded them) used to revolve around themes of manly heroism because players (readers) were missing the opportunity for that in modern life. They still do (often badly) but now we get sex and chix injected in because, well, many gheymers are missing another kind of opportunity.
"Now"? You have a very stretched definition of the word, because you could say the exact same thing 20+ years back and it would still be true. Hell, even Conan has plenty of "sex and chix" (OK, maybe not exactly sex, but the descriptions often venture into the realm of erotica).
 

LarryTyphoid

Scholar
Joined
Sep 16, 2021
Messages
2,233
"Now"? You have a very stretched definition of the word, because you could say the exact same thing 20+ years back and it would still be true. Hell, even Conan has plenty of "sex and chix" (OK, maybe not exactly sex, but the descriptions often venture into the realm of erotica).
I can't speak for ancient myth and classical literature, but romance has been an almost omnipresent feature in cinema since its inception, and quite common in the 20th century literature I've read. Comic books as well, and those date back to the 20s.

Maybe he means for video games. The earliest example of player romance in a game I can think of is Dragon Quest 5, but in quite a different form from BioWare style romance like in Pathfinder. Ultima Savage Empire and Ultima 7 have romance, especially the former example, but it's still really sparse and barely there. Dating sims didn't exist, I think, but I'm sure lots of Japanese visual novels featured player romance, even if we exclude the pornographic examples.
 

Delterius

Arcane
Joined
Dec 12, 2012
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15,956
Location
Entre a serra e o mar.
Seriously, WTF does "romance" have to do with anything? Are you a twelve-year-old girl?
I think it's a good play with the player's expectations. Quite a few evil characters have been redeemed before, either by forming a close friendship with them, playing therapist for them, or via a romance storyline. I've seen so many accounts of people getting burned thinking that Camellia could have a happy ending regardless that I'm convinced the character is effective at that. It's not a knock off those players either, it should be fun to experience that. Like watching a story about the underdog, seeing them grow and succeed, pine for them, only to see them die in the end. Those emotions are what stories are for.

Camellia is a femme fatale who seduces her victims and maintains the facade of good noblewoman to society at large. Interestingly some players pine for that mask even as it falls. They've been seduced themselves, and tragedy follows. The bittersweet ending only adds to the character.

I don't think the character will age particularly well, she's so obviously guilty it's hammy. But for our time, she's good.
 
Last edited:

Camel

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Sep 10, 2021
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2,851
Games (and the literature that preceded them) used to revolve around themes of manly heroism because players (readers) were missing the opportunity for that in modern life. They still do (often badly) but now we get sex and chix injected in because, well, many gheymers are missing another kind of opportunity.
It's the opposite now thanks to woke neo-puritanism in movies and games. 90s movies ususally had at least one sex scene with mostly partial or rare full-frontal female nudity. Bioware RPGs had awkward sex scenes when ME1 caused the last conservative backlash and GTA: San Andreas caused outrage with Hot Coffee. Now we don't have sex scenes in mainstream and AAA games.
 

Aarwolf

Learned
Joined
Dec 15, 2020
Messages
572
Now we don't have sex scenes in mainstream and AAA games.

Of course we do!

x96Stvf.jpg
 

Erebus

Arcane
Joined
Jul 12, 2008
Messages
4,850
Companions (I don't mean NPCs in general) are one of the very few elements of WotR that are not vastly inferior to what can be found in Kingmaker. But in both games, male companions tend to be better than female ones.

In WotR, Ember is pretty much the only female companion that's worth anything. Sure, she's heavily stereotypical, but it's possible to care about her, to find the interactions with her interesting and to appreciate her self-appointed quest. Seelah's not awful but she's pretty boring, Camellia is a one-dimensional psycho, Nenio's only good for a few gags, Arueshalae somehow manages to be whinier than Aerie, and Wenduag... Wenduag could have been pretty good, but it would have taken a lot more work.

But it's not like Kingmaker does a much better job. Amiri is a one-note moron, Linzi is annoying, Valerie has a simplistic backstory, Octavia is uninteresting and Kalikke is forgettable. Kanerah is okayish, but not sufficiently developed. Jaethal is almost a decent character, but she would need to be a lot more polished (her banter during rest time is especially bad).
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Games (and the literature that preceded them) used to revolve around themes of manly heroism because players (readers) were missing the opportunity for that in modern life. They still do (often badly) but now we get sex and chix injected in because, well, many gheymers are missing another kind of opportunity.
It's the opposite now thanks to woke neo-puritanism in movies and games. 90s movies ususally had at least one sex scene with mostly partial or rare full-frontal female nudity. Bioware RPGs had awkward sex scenes when ME1 caused the last conservative backlash and GTA: San Andreas caused outrage with Hot Coffee. Now we don't have sex scenes in mainstream and AAA games.
Pretty sure BG3 is planning to blow the top off of that trend.
 

Stokowski

Arcane
Joined
Nov 23, 2011
Messages
4,698
Location
Gehenna
Hmm, I remember Octavia maybe tried something when we were at the inn, but I think I told her to fuck off.

Careful, she might set fire to your house. That's how she usually handles rejection.

(Dang, Chaotic Good sure ain't what it used to be.)
 

Basshead

Scholar
Joined
Jul 25, 2019
Messages
125
Location
Coal Region, PA
Weird, since some of the companions will come on to you no matter what.
This is true. The queer cleric aggressively tried to force his faggotry onto my Lawful good Aeon Paladin with literally no input from me as a player. You can tell him to go fuck himself and avoid it, at least at some point. However I feel something like romances should require some type of at least hint from the player. I guess the point is that morally he is a degenerate gambling pervert masquerading as a priest. Perhaps not so different from a lot of real priests? Is this why he has access to so many necromancy spells? I digress, in real life people can be forceful with their unwanted and inappropriate advances even when you’ve given them no hint of mutual interest. I say this as an obviously straight man with 3 children.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
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May 29, 2010
Messages
36,760
The queer cleric aggressively tried to force his faggotry onto my Lawful good Aeon Paladin with literally no input from me as a player.
He never said anything like that to me. Sounds like you clicked on one of the "this could be interpreted as friendly but it's actually a come on" lines. You have to give these guys the cold shoulder and express as little interest as possible.
 

Basshead

Scholar
Joined
Jul 25, 2019
Messages
125
Location
Coal Region, PA
The queer cleric aggressively tried to force his faggotry onto my Lawful good Aeon Paladin with literally no input from me as a player.
He never said anything like that to me. Sounds like you clicked on one of the "this could be interpreted as friendly but it's actually a come on" lines. You have to give these guys the cold shoulder and express as little interest as possible.
You are probably right. It made me feel angry when it happened because I was just trying to do companion side quests and I felt like it was a bit too easy to trigger this guy to try and crawl into your elven arse*. But in reflection perhaps it wasn’t so bad because it actually made me feel something, which is rare in the vast majority of games. Based on both Pathfinder games I don’t think this was the reaction intended.
So many gays do the same in real life.

Furthermore, a very similar thing happens on the codex. Think about all the times you’re in a thread trying to discuss games and some weird fuck starts posting about how bad they’re lusting after a character in a totally gross way. Like fuck you take your furry cartoon porn obsession elsewhere. Why must you share your humiliating desires with this male audience? Why here and now? There is a time and a place and a degree of general acceptability. I try to be open minded because my weltanshauung and ideas are often viewed as extreme or offensive to others. But goddamnit you have to draw the line somewhere and deviant art sonic inflation porn is over that line.

*my character wasnt an elf. Elf’s are for fags.
 

Kruno

Arcane
Patron
Village Idiot Zionist Agent Shitposter
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Jan 2, 2012
Messages
11,478
We have AI now, it should be easy to get GPT 5 to rewrite all the dialogue with something meaningful.
 

Yosharian

Arcane
Joined
May 28, 2018
Messages
10,452
Location
Grand Chien
The queer cleric aggressively tried to force his faggotry onto my Lawful good Aeon Paladin with literally no input from me as a player.
He never said anything like that to me. Sounds like you clicked on one of the "this could be interpreted as friendly but it's actually a come on" lines. You have to give these guys the cold shoulder and express as little interest as possible.
You are probably right. It made me feel angry when it happened because I was just trying to do companion side quests and I felt like it was a bit too easy to trigger this guy to try and crawl into your elven arse*. But in reflection perhaps it wasn’t so bad because it actually made me feel something, which is rare in the vast majority of games. Based on both Pathfinder games I don’t think this was the reaction intended.
So many gays do the same in real life.

Furthermore, a very similar thing happens on the codex. Think about all the times you’re in a thread trying to discuss games and some weird fuck starts posting about how bad they’re lusting after a character in a totally gross way. Like fuck you take your furry cartoon porn obsession elsewhere. Why must you share your humiliating desires with this male audience? Why here and now? There is a time and a place and a degree of general acceptability. I try to be open minded because my weltanshauung and ideas are often viewed as extreme or offensive to others. But goddamnit you have to draw the line somewhere and deviant art sonic inflation porn is over that line.

*my character wasnt an elf. Elf’s are for fags.
Have you thought about therapy? I think you might benefit from it
 
Joined
May 31, 2018
Messages
2,868
Location
The Present
Games (and the literature that preceded them) used to revolve around themes of manly heroism because players (readers) were missing the opportunity for that in modern life. They still do (often badly) but now we get sex and chix injected in because, well, many gheymers are missing another kind of opportunity.
It's the opposite now thanks to woke neo-puritanism in movies and games. 90s movies ususally had at least one sex scene with mostly partial or rare full-frontal female nudity. Bioware RPGs had awkward sex scenes when ME1 caused the last conservative backlash and GTA: San Andreas caused outrage with Hot Coffee. Now we don't have sex scenes in mainstream and AAA games.
80-90s films injected gratuitously sex and nudity because that was the only way ordinary folk could get their erotica in a socially acceptable manner. It got inserted simply for the sake of it. Desiderius is correct. Troons and neckbeards lack the ability for romantic fulfillment, so they seek it in their video games. With the improvements in AI chatbots and text to speech software, we're only a few years away from Her. Maybe then video games can return to being games.
 

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