Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[mediocrepoet]

Why does Pathfinder seem to attract the worst of munchkins?

(I suppose its because DnD doesn't even allow for minmaxing anymore after 4e.)

Because all the build porn, multi-classing nonsense of 3E is literally what Pathfinder was created to retain.

 

[Desiderius]

Hm... I had lots of fun with an elven curved blade, dex to dmg and power attack in Kingmaker. Do you think a similarly built Hellknight could work?

The issue with PA and DEX-based ECB is that you don't get the 1.5x damage bonus

Can you get DEX to dam on ECB at all? I know they don’t show up in the Finesse Training list for Rogues.

And you don’t really want to be wasting your action economy Dazzling on Regill when you can get the same effect thru your natural hitting and killing via Smash and Carnage.

Three level rogue tax (or slayer, I think), but yes. Not the most optimized weapon, but very effective and the theme is cool, IMO. Good point on the DD, though. Not really sure how to build Regill at this point.

Just use Power Attack. Pretty sure he has 13 STR since he wears Heavy Armor. And yes you can also get DEX to damage now on ECB, although you miss out on all the Enlarge shenanigans.

 

[Yosharian]

Hm... I had lots of fun with an elven curved blade, dex to dmg and power attack in Kingmaker. Do you think a similarly built Hellknight could work?

The issue with PA and DEX-based ECB is that you don't get the 1.5x damage bonus

I'm pretty sure you do. I'll check tomorrow anyway when I'm back home to be sure and post my findings.

And I'm pretty sure you don't, but I'd be very happy if I was wrong

 

[Fedora Master]

Why does Pathfinder seem to attract the worst of munchkins?

(I suppose its because DnD doesn't even allow for minmaxing anymore after 4e.)

Because all the build porn, multi-classing nonsense of 3E is literally what Pathfinder was created to retain.

While I understand the fun in theorycrafting, this current discussion seems rather... Well...

 

[TwoEdge]

Hm... I had lots of fun with an elven curved blade, dex to dmg and power attack in Kingmaker. Do you think a similarly built Hellknight could work?

The issue with PA and DEX-based ECB is that you don't get the 1.5x damage bonus

I'm pretty sure you do. I'll check tomorrow anyway when I'm back home to be sure and post my findings.

And I'm pretty sure you don't, but I'd be very happy if I was wrong

Here are screens with power attack off and on. I may be wrong, because for some reason the damage tooltip doesn't provide as much detail as the to-hit one, so it's good that you scrutinize it and see if my logic is faulty.

Spoiler

 

[Yosharian]

Uhh I'd need to know your bab

 

[TwoEdge]

Uhh I'd need to know your bab

Indeed, it's +3.

 

[Yosharian]

Uhh I'd need to know your bab

Indeed, it's +3.

Hmm, maybe it's base STR that isn't multiplying correctly, then?

 

[Israfael]

Why does Owlcat call the same person "she" and "he" multiple times? Are they confused about pronouns in English?

AFAIR, it's not Owlcats, it's Paizo stuff (it's how the things are written in the official rulebooks and so on).

 

[Dodo1610]

Why does Owlcat call the same person "she" and "he" multiple times? Are they confused about pronouns in English?

AFAIR, it's not Owlcats, it's Paizo stuff (it's how the things are written in the official rulebooks and so on).

Nope their mythic paths are completely homebrew and the official mythic paths use always the same pronoun throughout the text

 

[Xamenos]

Yeah, Paizo alternates pronouns between classes but keeps the same consistently for each class.

 

[TwoEdge]

Uhh I'd need to know your bab

Indeed, it's +3.

Hmm, maybe it's base STR that isn't multiplying correctly, then?

I think it's working correctly and as intended. 1+1/2 str bonus (dex in this case) for two handing, +2 for power attack +50% of the power attack bonus (1 in this case), for using an elligible weapon.

At 20 dex it's 5+2+2+1 or +10 as in my screenshot.
Here's a vanilla, 20 str, level 1 fighter using power attack:

Spoiler

Same bonus, so it checks out.

 

[Desiderius]

Why does Pathfinder seem to attract the worst of munchkins?

(I suppose its because DnD doesn't even allow for minmaxing anymore after 4e.)

Because all the build porn, multi-classing nonsense of 3E is literally what Pathfinder was created to retain.

While I understand the fun in theorycrafting, this current discussion seems rather... Well...

The current discussion is about having functional companions in the next game. If you're too short for this ride run along to kiddie land. Has nothing to do with Munchkins.

 

[Yosharian]

Interesting, they must have patched it without putting it in the patch notes.

Well, this opens up some new avenues for my MC build. Hmm.

 

[Yosharian]

So this means that the only thing left for a STR ECB build over a DEX one is the use of Legendary Proportions. I'd be ditching Intimidating Prowess so late-game intimidation would suffer, but that was never an important feature anyway. And Azata gets a skill bonus to Persuasion.

We're talking a loss of +6 to the damage stat which is -3 to hit and -3 to damage, and also -3 to Trip rolls. Also +2 AC from losing size penalty but -6 to Natural Armor AC, so effectively -4. But that's counteracted by a +11 DEX modifier, up from +7, so net AC loss is zero, though Touch AC improves by 6 points.

Hmm, definitely better stats when LP is not available/cast, but otherwise slightly worse, maybe a bit tankier versus those touch AC mobs in HATEOT. Early game is going to be better but only if I rush those Rogue levels.

Oh and of course there's an additional loss of damage because the ECB's damage die won't increase, so it's 5.5 avg roll versus 9 avg roll when LP'd, so that's a loss of 3.5 damage on standard rolls and 7 damage on crits, in addition to the -3 from before.

Oh well LP is an overpowered spell anyway. The -3 to CMB rolls really hurts though.

Edit: I just realised that being Huge adds a -2 penalty to attack rolls, which of course affects Trip rolls. BUT you also get a +2 modifier to CMB for being Huge. So the net result for CMB is still -3.

Edit2: so I crunched the numbers, the damage loss is 739 average DPR down from 775. So not too bad. I'm concerned that the CMB loss is going to make tripping end-game enemies less of a sure thing, but there you go.

Edit: turns out I calculated the damage increase from LP's weapon die increase incorrectly. Average damage per round is 673, down from 775. Still not that bad.

 

[TwoEdge]

Yeah, as I mentioned earlier, not the most optimized, but definitely viable. I ran the build to tap into the gish bladesinger power fantasy, and to capitalize on the eldritch knight capstone once in a while (tb mode had just come out), so that was the point of dex, free hellfires on crit.

 

[Minecrawler]

Nope their mythic paths are completely homebrew and the official mythic paths use always the same pronoun throughout the text

Interesting. How quickly they embraced the corrupt ways of their new overlords.
I guess they will soon become a foothold of Chaos in the northern wastes.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

A very good explanation would be "the game is in Alpha, they barely edit these stuff, heck there are some abilities with icon and description flat out missing"

But I guess Codex needs to be conservtard and make it "OWLCAT WILL BRING DOOM WESTERN CULTURE TO MOTHER RUSSIA"

Even Paizo use the pronoun consistently within each class.

 

[jungl]

3.5 dnd doesnt have builds either. Ac build??? Use a scroll of summon skeletons. Damage build? summon a dog. Oh wow you want to build a martial just reach +30ish attack by endgame. A spell caster? take enough caster levels to cast level 9 spells.

Best DnD games (baldurs gate/icewind dale) are the best not because of DnD but because they were build on a fun RTS engine . Long time DnD fans are collectively commiting suicide realizing how much DnD sucks after playing blunders gate 3.

 

[Minecrawler]

A very good explanation would be "the game is in Alpha, they barely edit these stuff, heck there are some abilities with icon and description flat out missing"

Another good explanation would be the same as in hundreds of similar cases before.
How's Anevia doing?

But I guess Codex needs to be conservtard and make it "OWLCAT WILL BRING DOOM WESTERN CULTURE TO MOTHER RUSSIA"

They are quite good at adapting something which is not very popular in Russia by default to local mentality, yeah. Also, being THE russian game studio, any competitors are yet to be seen.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Another good explanation would be the same as in hundreds of similar cases before.

Now I see the reason Owlcat Games are so reluctant to share the footage and pictures of the alpha version.

Also, being THE russian game studio, any competitors are yet to be seen.

In Russia they compete with other Russian game studios (producing web browser and mobile games, f.e.) you have no idea about. In the global market they compete with all the other CRPG creators: the comparison with Deadfire and Obsidian is relevant.

You're kind of dense, eh.

 

[Minecrawler]

In Russia they compete with other Russian game studios (producing web browser and mobile games, f.e.) you have no idea about.

Are you serious? Nobody cares about narrative or quests/companions or cultural influence in browser and mobile "games" produced by mail.ru, these are just quickly made and quickly forgotten cash grabs, but you seem to have no idea about that.
There are probably lots of mobile studios in Poland too, but somehow nobody mentions them when discussing competition to CDPR.

In the global market they compete with all the other CRPG creators: the comparison with Deadfire and Obsidian is relevant.

And I didn't mention global market and global audience at all, I was talking specifically about competitors in Russia (preferably in RPG niche, but anything with narrative goes at this point). "Sea Dogs" was long ago, KB2 doesn't give many reasons to be optimistic.

Talk about being

kind of dense

 

[Nortar]

I was talking specifically about competitors in Russia (preferably in RPG niche, but anything with narrative goes at this point).

What about Encased and ATOM?
Insomnia, Ash of Gods, Irratus, Stoneshard, Partisans 1941?

 

[PrettyDeadman]

I was talking specifically about competitors in Russia (preferably in RPG niche, but anything with narrative goes at this point).

What about Encased and ATOM?
Insomnia, Ash of Gods, Irratus, Stoneshard, Partisans 1941?

Atom competes with Disc Elysium, since its a baltics game.
Irratus is forever tainted with popamole autism.
Insomnia is unfortunately never going to be fixed/finished.
Stoneshard has great production value but suffers from lack of depth and variability expected from roguelike.
Ash of Gods - I don't like that style. Why did they copy that other game?
Encased is cool.
Partisans 1941 is cool I guess.

 

[golgepapaz]

The biggest feature combat wise is that HK converts Shaken from Intimidate to Frightened, which means he is your resident Dazzling Displayer. The problem is like pointed out by Desi is that Reggil is Dex built which means Power Attack to Cornugan Smash is sub-optimal on him. Not as bad as Greybor Finesse feats but still sub-optimal.

I believe devs said that Greybor Finesse Feats is a bug and will be fixed in Beta.