Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[InD_ImaginE]

Maybe. But now it is fair to criticize game as TB game since it's all official and people will.

It is not because even in the KS update they already said that the game is designed and balanced around RtwP.

Complaining about TB is moot because it is only official because loud retards keep spamming and becuase the game will be able to be sold on console with TB.

 

[Lacrymas]

...and because it's a turn-based system deformed into a RTwP one.

 

[Sergiu64]

The problem is encounter design. If you have it designed for RTwP - there's likely a lot of filler battles with same enemies over and over - like in the first game. Now play that same game in Turn Based and it takes forever AND is extremely boring as you're killing same centipedes over and over, etc. So hybrid games don't tend to work as its hard to design a game that works well in both.

 

[Grunker]

but TBist will be TBist

I like RTwP under the right circumstances. PF:K for me was much more enjoyable in TB.

 

[Grunker]

Now play that same game in Turn Based and it takes forever AND is extremely boring as you're killing same centipedes over and over, etc. So hybrid games don't tend to work as its hard to design a game that works well in both.

notsureifserious.jpg

You know you can switch between the modes, right?

 

[Sergiu64]

Now play that same game in Turn Based and it takes forever AND is extremely boring as you're killing same centipedes over and over, etc. So hybrid games don't tend to work as its hard to design a game that works well in both.

notsureifserious.jpg

You know you can switch between the modes, right?

When I played Kingmaker it was not that easy to switch modes - and kinda requires advanced knowledge of when the big fight was coming. Deadfire could only switch modes in beginning.

 

[Desiderius]

A lot of this is people getting confused about what constitutes a trash fight. If you’re having to pay attention and reload sometimes, that’s not a trash fight.

The corollary is that there are very few fights that you can’t make into a trash fight once you know what you’re doing (Delay Poison for Centipedes/paying attention to the warnings about the big one). So you can switch to RT for those fights, conserve your mental energy, and all of a sudden the game’s smooth.

There’s another level on top of that where you get to that point without burning any per rest resources so you can conserve those for the big fights and you don’t have to think about when to rest.

 

[Lacrymas]

It's literally a button press.

 

[Shadenuat]

A lot of this is people getting confused about what constitutes a trash fight.

Any fight without high level enemy wizard is a trash fight

 

[Efe]

I wanted to wait for release but won an early access tier from xmas raffle.
How complete is it? I feel like it will be too late to stop if i start

 

[Grunker]

Now play that same game in Turn Based and it takes forever AND is extremely boring as you're killing same centipedes over and over, etc. So hybrid games don't tend to work as its hard to design a game that works well in both.

notsureifserious.jpg

You know you can switch between the modes, right?

When I played Kingmaker it was not that easy to switch modes

You literally press ESC - one click - done. I used it when TB bugged up and got stuck on someone's turn. Deadfire has less trash fights so I found OK that you couldn't switch, though I'd still have preferred the ability to do it.

 

[Dodo1610]

The most unfinished things I have seen were the cutscenes and some glitches and the old Owlcat special broken archetypes. There are just tons of missing assets, like portraits, meshes for the new races, voiceover. I spent 40$ on early access games that were a lot less developed than WOTR is now.

 

[Sergiu64]

You literally press ESC - one click - done. I used it when TB bugged up and got stuck on someone's turn. Deadfire has less trash fights so I found OK that you couldn't switch, though I'd still have preferred the ability to do it.

For some reason I was forced to restart the game every time I wanted to switch. I don't remember the details of why.

 

[Grunker]

You literally press ESC - one click - done. I used it when TB bugged up and got stuck on someone's turn. Deadfire has less trash fights so I found OK that you couldn't switch, though I'd still have preferred the ability to do it.

For some reason I was forced to restart the game every time I wanted to switch. I don't remember the details of why.

 

[Delterius]

You literally press ESC - one click - done. I used it when TB bugged up and got stuck on someone's turn. Deadfire has less trash fights so I found OK that you couldn't switch, though I'd still have preferred the ability to do it.

For some reason I was forced to restart the game every time I wanted to switch. I don't remember the details of why.

what a bizarre hill to die on

 

[Shadenuat]

Hell does it matter if you can switch or not? It doesn't make going through 22 same undead cyclops more fun. Don't give developers ideas that they can slack because you can speed up "bad" fights.

This is why there is no place for compromise in game design.

 

[Delterius]

Hell does it matter if you can switch or not?

considering its been done well

yes?

 

[Efe]

what do you want? every cyclops should be a special snowflake?
look at his expectations.. this is what sjws did to games.

 

[Shadenuat]

I don't want "rtwp makes trash quicker" be overrated or compromises made around the matter. And especially i don't want to compromise on making encounter better or worse, or harder or easier, by a miraculous switch of a button. That should not be an argument for one system over another or for its inclusion or not.

Yeah RTWP allows for some immersive fast trash fights ala whirlwinding through horde of weak ass enemies or tunnel of slaves in Throne of Bhaal, but it is a minute surface level advantage which can be compared to awesome button, and you should't use it all the time - I'd rate it about as high as an extra neat graphical effect. If we look at encounter design of places which players consider good, like say Firkraag dungeon, you will not actually see that much repetition in its monstruary at all. There might be a random orc crowd created due to how IE spawns scaled enemies, and there are multiple optional quest Efreeti, but general tempo does not, in fact, differ from what we would consider a good encounter design in any other RPG: some kobolds and hobgoblins in entrance, some hobs and clerics, a draining mist to the left, kamikaze kobolds around magic immune rakshasa (an encounter which potentially looks much better designed to me for RTWP by the way, because it is easier to explode all them with whole party, in TB you might have been exploded because one kobold won initiative), orc ambush with locked doors, golems, troll cook with some hobs, vampires, some slime, a whole adventuring party ambush potentially, some undead, efreeti, fire elemental, werewolves, air elemental, ambush by werewolves with dialogue, secret stash with very high level golems, golems with ogrynes, another big party with characters from old game, high level wizard, dragon, or both. Funny enough none of that even had any particular hp bloat or "glances" to slow down it ala poe or some real time games.

If you feel that one systems merit is basically based around reducing suffering for encounters which are not fun in the system which you subscribed to by default, just argue for that system you really like, ie: add hex grid already, proper cover systems, elevation and maneuvre, and turn game into real tactical game instead, done.

 

[santino27]

I don't want "rtwp makes trash quicker" be overrated or compromises made around the matter. And especially i don't want to compromise on making encounter better or worse, or harder or easier, by a miraculous switch of a button. That should not be an argument for one system over another or for its inclusion or not.

Yeah RTWP allows for some immersive fast trash fights ala whirlwinding through horde of weak ass enemies or tunnel of slaves in Throne of Bhaal, but it is a minute surface level advantage which can be compared to awesome button, and you should't use it all the time - I'd rate it about as high as an extra neat graphical effect. If we look at encounter design of places which players consider good, like say Firkraag dungeon, you will not actually see that many repetition in its monstruary at all. There might be a random orc crowd created due to how IE spawns scaled enemies, and there are multiple optional quest Efreeti, but general tempo does not, in fact, differs from what we would consider a good encounter design in any other RPG: some kobolds and hobgoblins in entrance, some hobs and clerics, a draining mist to the left, kamikaze kobolds around magic immune rakshasa (an encounter which potentially looks much better designed to me for RTWP by the way, because it is easier to explode all them with whole party, in TB you might have been exploded because one kobold won initiative), orc ambush with locked doors, golems, troll cook with some hobs, vampires, some slime, a whole adventuring party ambush potentially, some undead, efreeti, fire elemental, werewolves, air elemental, ambush by werewolves with dialogue, secret stash with very high level golems, golems with ogrynes, another big party with characters from old game, high level wizard, dragon, or both. Funny enough none of that even had any particular hp bloat or "glances" to slow down it ala poe or some real time games.

If you feel that one systems merit is basically based around reducing suffering for encounters which are not fun in the system which you subscribed to by default, just argue for that system you really like, ie: add hex grid already, proper cover systems, elevation and maneuvre, and turn game into real tactical game instead, done.

You should definitely start your own (separate) thread on this very important subject. Owlcat has already stated their intentions with the two modes in WotR, and has stuck to that so far in the alpha.

 

[Grunker]

"One man's trash, that's another man's come up" as one of the great poets of the antique once said

 

[Koolz]

I have been giving suggestions on this game since the first Alpha. Very impressed with what they have done so far.

I have helped with Narrative design and Music directing.

Helped with:

What tracks are missing, how to reuse Motifs, themes, where to write cues for more emotion and dramatics for story telling.

How to create more variations with tracks already composed. How to reuse the Title Music as not just a March but as an Orchestration that builds up to Epic Sweeping Orchestra as the Main theme for BGM.

Now I know they want to record everything with a Real Orchestra and I did suggest to them that a real Orchestra doesn't always mean better.


Here's a few things that have to be considered:

1. Who is placing the Mics, what sound stage, what mixer console, who is the conductor, how do the musicians feel about the music, how much time is there for studio session recording.

2. Does it sound as good or better then the Sequencer Template? Is the Orchestra a known orchestra famed for bringing out he best in a score?

3. Who is doing the editing of the score, who is doing the orchestra arrangement, How big is the Orchestra?


Look forward to the Beta. I think this is an amazing Rpg. I think there is much more that can be done in Tactical Battles and on the map screen with gaining materials etc.

As I said very impressed. I have also gave suggestions on Quest design for returning characters and the stories with in the world.

Of course Developers already have a plan that they are following so a lot of things are just suggestions. They are very talented group.

I gave them a ton of money in the Kickstarter.

So much can be done with this game. It's already better then Pathfinder.

 

[Shadenuat]

Eyebog made one of most memorable themes (Skylark) somewhere in his garage, I dont understand why would any gamer pay any attention to this stuff. It makes less sense than judging painting by a brand of paint it was painted with.

 

[gurugeorge]

Being able to switch between RTwP and turn-based is genius, and the Chinese guy who first invented the turn-based mod for PF:K has literally invented a new paradigm for RPGs; he's a genius who should be hired by Owlcat.

It allows you to have the best of both worlds; You can have little episodes of power fantasy, while at the same time you have episodes of proper, challenging gameplay. I'm sure the two modes need slightly different AI and rules, but ffs these are computers, they're supposed to be good at that sort of thing.

What's not to like?

 

[InD_ImaginE]

you have episodes of proper, challenging gameplay.

without proper AI most TB games are not challenging

the last actually difficult TB RPG (not XCOM like) was Blackguard 1. Everything else is difficult for the wrong reason (stats bloat in case of DOS I and II). Until you can have SCS level AI for TB games it will always be a steamroll (or you play with enemies massively buffed up like Hard/Unfair in PfK or like in XCOM like where the number is skewed for enemy advantage). Ihaven't played BG 3 but I honestly doubt it will change my mind.