Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Enhanced Edition - now with A Dance of Masks epilogue DLC

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
Patron
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
14,778
Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
I found some of the wintersun fights to be some of the hardest in chapter 3. Treants with AC in the 50s or 60s, tough ghost that drain you, and some mean ranged enemies that target your low AC characters. Blackwater is just a damage test, if you have two handers with power attack and mythic power attack you barely even notice their DR but if you are running around dealing 1d8+5 damage then you'll never kill anything.
Good place for Blitz Cut Short Sword (bypasses all DR plus Lightning) and Greybor/Sosiel's Adamantium weapons. Plus Greybor turns off DR with his Sneaks.

Blackwater toons with Regen that was turned off by Lightning originally had Lightning Immunity IIRC, which was an... interesting bug.
 

InD_ImaginE

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 23, 2015
Messages
5,850
Pathfinder: Wrath
Current patch Blackwater is nerfed from Beta/Launch version iirc.

That being said, a lot of fight in Wintersun isn't really mandatory to do the first time you step there. Like the Uber Treants, you can leave it for much later when you get the quest to find the senile cursed crusader.
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
15,001
True but wintersun is sort of the first nearby thing you're sent towards. It feels required where Blackwater looks pretty obviously out of the way and not important to do soon.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
Patron
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
14,778
Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
True but wintersun is sort of the first nearby thing you're sent towards. It feels required where Blackwater looks pretty obviously out of the way and not important to do soon.
I usually do Wintersun at lvl 12, Blackwater at 14. There are several things closer than Wintersun.
 

volklore

Arcane
Joined
Jun 19, 2018
Messages
1,854
Act3 difficulty drops down a lot if you rush M4. But first playthrough wintersun was quite difficult for sure.
Molten scar and Greengates are probably first things you should be doing while waiting.
 

scytheavatar

Scholar
Joined
Sep 22, 2016
Messages
623
MegaTreant in Wintersun can be trivialized by Creeping Doom and Mark of Justice....... Ghosts in Wintersun are annoying but most of them can be trivialized by casting Death Ward, then going RTWP and waiting for natural 20s. The only one that can't is the asshole who spams Finger of Death, you need Guarded Hearth and Madness Domain against that ghost.
 

Haplo

Prophet
Patron
Joined
Sep 14, 2016
Messages
6,450
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
It seems my Domain doesn't scale with Inquisitor levels but character level.
Law Domain is at level 14 and I'm Level 10 Sacred Huntsmaster and 4 Hellknight.
I dunno if its because of Impossible Domain : Animal, or if its just how it is.

If it's bugged then its probably bugged on a per-ability basis. I haven't noticed that with other domains but then you have to looks closely if you're only slightly multiclassed.
It seems to be that way with Law Domain, at least.
I have 2 uses of Staff of Order.
You get one use at level 8 and an extra use every 4 levels afterwards in the class that gave you that domain.
If it only counted Sacred Huntmaster I would only have 1 use as I'm level 11.

However, as I'm level 14 total I have 2 uses.

If that's how it is with all domains then I'm fine with it; it makes multiclassing and prestige classes more viable.
Classes with Domains will advance those Domains. What's bugged about it? Did you take Law Domain via Godclaw Order on Hellknight?
Nope, I took Order of the Nail and I started the game with Law Domain on my inquisitor.
My point is that even when I took Hellknight it still advanced Law Domain.

Well, a Hellknight CAN progress the Law Domain. But he should pick Godclaw Order & Deity and then the Law Domain as Discipline. Seems to be a bug that you do without those picks.
 

CthuluIsSpy

Arcane
Joined
Dec 26, 2014
Messages
8,512
Location
On the internet, writing shit posts.
It seems my Domain doesn't scale with Inquisitor levels but character level.
Law Domain is at level 14 and I'm Level 10 Sacred Huntsmaster and 4 Hellknight.
I dunno if its because of Impossible Domain : Animal, or if its just how it is.

If it's bugged then its probably bugged on a per-ability basis. I haven't noticed that with other domains but then you have to looks closely if you're only slightly multiclassed.
It seems to be that way with Law Domain, at least.
I have 2 uses of Staff of Order.
You get one use at level 8 and an extra use every 4 levels afterwards in the class that gave you that domain.
If it only counted Sacred Huntmaster I would only have 1 use as I'm level 11.

However, as I'm level 14 total I have 2 uses.

If that's how it is with all domains then I'm fine with it; it makes multiclassing and prestige classes more viable.
Classes with Domains will advance those Domains. What's bugged about it? Did you take Law Domain via Godclaw Order on Hellknight?
Nope, I took Order of the Nail and I started the game with Law Domain on my inquisitor.
My point is that even when I took Hellknight it still advanced Law Domain.

Well, a Hellknight CAN progress the Law Domain. But he should pick Godclaw Order & Deity and then the Law Domain as Discipline. Seems to be a bug that you do without those picks.
I'll have to try it with other classes.
It could be that Domains progress with Hellknight, regardless if you picked Godclaw due to a bug.
Or it could be intended to simplify coding, with the added benefit of making multiclassing more viable.
I'll have to see if it progresses with HKS too.

One easy way to check would be to multiclass Sosiel, and see if his domains progress too.
 

CthuluIsSpy

Arcane
Joined
Dec 26, 2014
Messages
8,512
Location
On the internet, writing shit posts.
I think Convicts might be bugged. They suffer from low morale for no reason. When I check their status it just says Overwhelming Grief, and I couldn't find any demon unit that inflicts that.
I suspect that their terrifying presence ability might be applying the morale debuff to them rather than to the enemy. I never see the enemy break after getting hit by convicts.
 

Haplo

Prophet
Patron
Joined
Sep 14, 2016
Messages
6,450
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
What weapon type would you use for a charge-based character? Using Arcane Rider obviously with mythic charge and stacking every charge bonus item I can find. Spell Combat only works with one handed/finesse weapons, which would leave me stuck with short spears (for their x2 damage on charge), unless there's another one-handed/finesse weapon with big enough bonuses to outweigh that (doubt it).

But, Quicken rods are a thing and you eventually get Dimensional Ride as a quickened action at level 14. That basically leaves a gap of all of Act 3 where I'd need to quicken with rods. So, Longspears might be better since twohanding is king and they tend to have better bonuses anyway. Or, would a higher crit rate on other two handers still be better?

Alternatively, would spell combat still be useful enough that I should stick with shortspear? It is basically an automatic free action usage of any spell as long as the other action you want to do is an attack, and if I'm understanding the mechanics right you can even quicken a spell, do the spell combat spell, then still pull off a full round attack (which due to being on a pet has a range of like 100'). Might be interesting to build as an off-nuker or something. Even though Magus is conventionally focused on touch spells there's nothing that says you can't throw out two fireballs a turn.

Obviously will be using a skald to deliver pounce. Not sure which charge bonuses apply to only the first attack or which apply to all attacks in the charge round, but I think most of them apply to everything.
If I want to use Spell Combat, my favourite weapons for a magus are Grave Singer - battleaxe version (not very original) or Battle-Forged warhammer from the Hellknight fort trader.
Both allow both one-handed and two-handed grip. Both boast a x3 critical multiplier. Grave Singer also has 18-20 critical range, while Battle-Forged has 19-20 - but also base damage of a greatsword.

Spears are decent for charges, but weak otherwise. Also Spear bonus charge damage applies only on 1st hit in a pounce (if its different in vanilla right now, then its a bug and might get fixed - like Spirited Charge). While you get a chance to crit multiple times per round with pounce.

NEED dimension door for positioning, otherwise obstacles get in the way and you have to spend a turn backing off to charge again. Nothing else compares, I'm not going to pick a melee character that becomes randomly useless for 1/3rd of the fights in the game and struggles to use their charge for more than one enemy on the other 2/3rds. Gendarme would get a x3 charge bonus at level 20 but that's 19 levels of suffering. Unless there's some other way to get a lot of swift action dimension doors on an excellent melee class, if so then tell me.

My preferred classes for charging are inquisitors: Sacred Huntsmaster for multiclassing (for example with gendarme) or Sanctified Slayer for main class. They get Swift teleport from Travel Domain with Domain Zealot.
Arcane Rider is okay-ish, but pretty slow progression, late Swift teleport, bad AC. Also worse initiative and skills. And Swift Dimension Ride is in fierce competition for Swift Actions and Arcane Pool points with Dimension Strike.

Also relaying on a skald for pounce on a teleporting charger is not a very good solution IMO. Skald Inspire Rage blocks Spellcasting and Spell-like abilities - which include teleport abilities.
Kitsune is the best race for a teleporting charger by far.
 

Parabalus

Arcane
Joined
Mar 23, 2015
Messages
17,499
Also Spear bonus charge damage applies only on 1st hit in a pounce (if its different in vanilla right now, then its a bug and might get fixed - like Spirited Charge)
Why would this be a bug?

Without it charge is trash and you might as well just full attack.
 

Haplo

Prophet
Patron
Joined
Sep 14, 2016
Messages
6,450
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Also Spear bonus charge damage applies only on 1st hit in a pounce (if its different in vanilla right now, then its a bug and might get fixed - like Spirited Charge)
Why would this be a bug?

Without it charge is trash and you might as well just full attack.

Because the tabletop rules state that only the first attack in a pouncing charge can get such damage multipliers. Which makes sense if you think about it - you can overpower an enemy with the impact of a charge... but if you keep on swinging, these attacks won't have the same momentum as your initial charge attack.

By the way, after release Spirited Charge used to work for every attack in a pounce, it was later patched to only work on the first strike.
Increased spear damage multipliers are a recent addition to vanilla, I expect they will get a similar treatment - if they haven't already.
Unless the devs want to increase the popularity of spears, I suppose.
 
Last edited:

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
Patron
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
14,778
Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
What weapon type would you use for a charge-based character? Using Arcane Rider obviously with mythic charge and stacking every charge bonus item I can find. Spell Combat only works with one handed/finesse weapons, which would leave me stuck with short spears (for their x2 damage on charge), unless there's another one-handed/finesse weapon with big enough bonuses to outweigh that (doubt it).

But, Quicken rods are a thing and you eventually get Dimensional Ride as a quickened action at level 14. That basically leaves a gap of all of Act 3 where I'd need to quicken with rods. So, Longspears might be better since twohanding is king and they tend to have better bonuses anyway. Or, would a higher crit rate on other two handers still be better?

Alternatively, would spell combat still be useful enough that I should stick with shortspear? It is basically an automatic free action usage of any spell as long as the other action you want to do is an attack, and if I'm understanding the mechanics right you can even quicken a spell, do the spell combat spell, then still pull off a full round attack (which due to being on a pet has a range of like 100'). Might be interesting to build as an off-nuker or something. Even though Magus is conventionally focused on touch spells there's nothing that says you can't throw out two fireballs a turn.

Obviously will be using a skald to deliver pounce. Not sure which charge bonuses apply to only the first attack or which apply to all attacks in the charge round, but I think most of them apply to everything.
If I want to use Spell Combat, my favourite weapons for a magus are Grave Singer - battleaxe version (not very original) or Battle-Forged warhammer from the Hellknight fort trader.
Both allow both one-handed and two-handed grip. Both boast a x3 critical multiplier. Grave Singer also has 18-20 critical range, while Battle-Forged has 19-20 - but also base damage of a greatsword.

Spears are decent for charges, but weak otherwise. Also Spear bonus charge damage applies only on 1st hit in a pounce (if its different in vanilla right now, then its a bug and might get fixed - like Spirited Charge). While you get a chance to crit multiple times per round with pounce.

NEED dimension door for positioning, otherwise obstacles get in the way and you have to spend a turn backing off to charge again. Nothing else compares, I'm not going to pick a melee character that becomes randomly useless for 1/3rd of the fights in the game and struggles to use their charge for more than one enemy on the other 2/3rds. Gendarme would get a x3 charge bonus at level 20 but that's 19 levels of suffering. Unless there's some other way to get a lot of swift action dimension doors on an excellent melee class, if so then tell me.

My preferred classes for charging are inquisitors: Sacred Huntsmaster for multiclassing (for example with gendarme) or Sanctified Slayer for main class. They get Swift teleport from Travel Domain with Domain Zealot.
Arcane Rider is okay-ish, but pretty slow progression, late Swift teleport, bad AC. Also worse initiative and skills. And Swift Dimension Ride is in fierce competition for Swift Actions and Arcane Pool points with Dimension Strike.

Also relaying on a skald for pounce on a teleporting charger is not a very good solution IMO. Skald Inspire Rage blocks Spellcasting and Spell-like abilities - which include teleport abilities.
Kitsune is the best race for a teleporting charger by far.
Can also go straight-up Divine Hunter Hunter archetype with full Travel Domain and Domain zealot. Takes a little longer to get there but gives you everything you need without muti-classing along with some nice utility. Aeon combos well with the spell selection.
 

Haplo

Prophet
Patron
Joined
Sep 14, 2016
Messages
6,450
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Sure, its an option. Personally I've respecced my Sanctified Slayer Aeon - gone Divine Hunter - back to Sanctified Slayer :P
Like him much better this way.
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
15,001
If I want to use Spell Combat, my favourite weapons for a magus are Grave Singer - battleaxe version (not very original) or Battle-Forged warhammer from the Hellknight fort trader.
Both allow both one-handed and two-handed grip. Both boast a x3 critical multiplier. Grave Singer also has 18-20 critical range, while Battle-Forged has 19-20 - but also base damage of a greatsword.

Spears are decent for charges, but weak otherwise. Also Spear bonus charge damage applies only on 1st hit in a pounce (if its different in vanilla right now, then its a bug and might get fixed - like Spirited Charge). While you get a chance to crit multiple times per round with pounce.
My preferred classes for charging are inquisitors: Sacred Huntsmaster for multiclassing (for example with gendarme) or Sanctified Slayer for main class. They get Swift teleport from Travel Domain with Domain Zealot.
Arcane Rider is okay-ish, but pretty slow progression, late Swift teleport, bad AC. Also worse initiative and skills. And Swift Dimension Ride is in fierce competition for Swift Actions and Arcane Pool points with Dimension Strike.

Also relaying on a skald for pounce on a teleporting charger is not a very good solution IMO. Skald Inspire Rage blocks Spellcasting and Spell-like abilities - which include teleport abilities.
Kitsune is the best race for a teleporting charger by far.
Hmm, interesting. Might need to end up respeccing my character then. Got through most of chapter 1, if it doesn't end up working then I might just redo the whole team in chapter 2 or 3. I am trying a bunch of off-brand builds for companions (e.g. Judge Cammy, Incense Sythesizer Woljif) so I'm amenable to a full redo of everything if things don't work out or I hit a brick wall.

If it turns out Pounce doesn't give more charge/mythic charge activations, do you know if cleaving finish does? Maybe if you just get enough damage to one hit things on charge you can keep that going on new targets.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
Patron
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
14,778
Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
The two Mounted MCs I still want to play are

(1) Order of the Paw whenever Danger Sense gets fixed (if ever) for the ultimate mounted tank. Advantage on saves AoE is prettty good.

(2) Disciple of the Pike riding Bismuth with Signature Skill: Persuasion and Dreadful Carnage to Charge into battle with a massive hit that scatters the enemy in Fear, then Charging down all who flee.
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
15,001
By the way, Judge is actually completely awful. You need both a swift action to activate your judgment and a swift action to spread it to your allies. Both only doable after battle starts. Feels like this wasn't tested at all, surely someone would notice the problem. Good luck if you want to use sentence as well which is also swift action, and makes using domains in battle even with domain zealot not really a thing.

Definitely gonna respec Cammy in a bit. Shame because sharing judgments ontop of letting her be the domain bitch of the group sounds like an excellent party support combo. And I think the idea of her being an evil judge who goes around using the law as an excuse to murder people is kinda fitting.
 
Last edited:

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
Patron
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
14,778
Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Judge is one of those memes where you can tell the guy writing guide never actually played it.

Kind of like what I did with Wrath Kineticist where I didn’t know it was bugged. At least I did play it in P:K, but you’re always better off respeccing an old save and testing a class for yourself before starting a playthrough with it.
 

Haplo

Prophet
Patron
Joined
Sep 14, 2016
Messages
6,450
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire

If it turns out Pounce doesn't give more charge/mythic charge activations, do you know if cleaving finish does? Maybe if you just get enough damage to one hit things on charge you can keep that going on new targets.

Mythic Charge works on all pounce hits so far. Boots of Stampede too. Cavalier Supreme / Transfixing Charge as well.
Only Spirited Charge was fixed in vanilla AFAIK.

Cleaving Finish would follow the base behaviour I believe.
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
15,001
Did some testing on current patch to be sure of exactly what works and what doesn't.

Most bonuses: Proc for each hit in attack. Obviously didn't test them all but it works with Living Ram and Devastating Blow from Above. With both if you have 4 attacks they'll deal 4x 1d4 and 4x 1d6 procs

Mythic Charge: Applies to all individual procs of damage during charge action. So with Living Ram and Devastating Blow from Above and 4 attacks you're getting 12x d6 mythic rank damage, and its divine so hard/impossible to soak. Might be a reason to go dual wield for massive amounts of attacks, but at the same time you're probably overkilling so hard that you'd rather have range so your follow ups can hit other things further away.

Spirited Charge and Spear inherent x2 multiplier: Applies only to first hit, seems to sporadically apply to all procs in that hit. For some reason I can get 3x on the normal hit, the additional proc from Devastating Blow from Above, but only 2x on the Living Ram proc. Might be useful late game, even without pounce getting 30d6 mythic charge damage upgraded to 60-90d6 mythic charge damage is a big deal, and there's more items that'd work to supply procs.

Most of this is what you guys were saying but it was all unclear since lots of the information is conflicting based on patches, just wanted to test everything and make it clear.

Other interesting findings:

Leading Strike does work pretty well if riding a pet and your pet has pounce for charge, or just for general full round attacking. I think its worth picking this up as a general melee bonus for characters on pets, especially for real time where you're just chewing through enemies.

Dimension Door is still kinda iffy for charges, but I should really be using it more often just to get next to the enemy in turn based mode. Throw out a few quicken rods to everyone and even use the mass version, helps completely solve any chokepoint issues and ensures everyone is next to the target before the first character makes their attack (so even if the first character crits, all characters are in position for outflank procs). Also helps ensuring pets get full attacks along with their rider for above mentioned leading strike. Feels like I've been leaving a lot of damage on the table by not using this a lot, considering I run parties where 2 or 3 characters could easily load up on it.

Was surprised to see that Arcane Rider's pet gets all bonuses from their Arcane pool boosts. Both the normal damage/elemental stuff and bonuses like Arcane Accuracy, Dimensional Strike, or Prescient Attack. I don't think that's mentioned anywhere in the class abilities, but its really powerful. If you are riding a pet with trip attacks it'll also apply to that, virtually guaranteeing successful trips against anything trippable. None of your charge bonuses apply to pets charges though. Not sure what happens with the late game barding that applies damage on charge, I'd assume none of your bonuses apply to that since its the pet wearing it.

Unfortunately Spirited Charge really is just buggy, and while I keep thinking I've found out what causes it to not work I then find I can't actually reproduce it not working once I've gone to another area. But whenever you notice it stopped working you need to dismount and mount again to get it working. Ends up being really annoying and kind of killing my enthusiasm for charging now.
 
Last edited:

CthuluIsSpy

Arcane
Joined
Dec 26, 2014
Messages
8,512
Location
On the internet, writing shit posts.
Do you have to kill Playful Darkness in Act 3, or can it be done later?
I'm thinking of going after him before using the three keys but I heard about how hard he can be and I don't want to waste time trying to kill him with my level 14 party.
 

LannTheStupid

Товарищ
Patron
Joined
Nov 14, 2016
Messages
3,195
Location
Soviet Union
Pathfinder: Wrath
If you like the game, then none of its content is "wasting time". If you perceive anything as "wasting time," go play something else.

Seriously, those Westerners and their "time management"...
 

scytheavatar

Scholar
Joined
Sep 22, 2016
Messages
623
Do you have to kill Playful Darkness in Act 3, or can it be done later?
I'm thinking of going after him before using the three keys but I heard about how hard he can be and I don't want to waste time trying to kill him with my level 14 party.

He can be trivialized by creeping doom and Mark of Justice. A ray caster backed by Guarded Health and True Strike can make short work of him too.
 

CthuluIsSpy

Arcane
Joined
Dec 26, 2014
Messages
8,512
Location
On the internet, writing shit posts.
If you like the game, then none of its content is "wasting time". If you perceive anything as "wasting time," go play something else.

Seriously, those Westerners and their "time management"...
Hammering my head against the wall to kill an optional enemy that might be intended to be fought with a higher level party is certainly a waste of time.
Being a good little masochist isn't the only indicator of liking a game. You can like a game and find some part of it to be dreadful, you know.
Like how swarms are implemented.
 
Last edited:

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom