- Joined
- Jul 22, 2019
- Messages
- 14,518
Yes. I'm not going to read it for you. That's (more than) half the fun.
-
Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.
"This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.
Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Enhanced Edition - now with A Dance of Masks epilogue DLC
- Thread starter ferratilis
- Start date
Yes. I'm not going to read it for you. That's (more than) half the fun.
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2019
- Messages
- 14,518
Cam even has a (colossally shitty) scaling Aura that's better than Bless by that point.
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/ is a useful resource for Pathfinder tabletop rules. Owlcats tried to more or less faithfully implement these rules, so often it will help, especially if looking at core mechanics issues.
As for types of buffs that overlap or not, there are a few that do (I don't recall offhand), but when in doubt, assume that anything that isn't luck, dodge, or untyped (IIRC) won't stack. So morale, pick your best (bless and prayer are both morale, so is heroism, IIRC) for the circumstance. Enhancement bonuses will tend to come from gear, making most of those attribute spell buffs worthless, depending on your gear load out. Etc.
This might be in the in game glossary, but I'm not sure. I've never looked for it because it's sort of background 3.XE knowledge, though sometimes the specifics change between the different versions of 3E (inc. Pathfinder).
Hope that helps.
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico
Arcane
On a side note, let's address the final trolling in that fight: you kill the fucker and he does up to 50 splash damage around himself while going down.
These devs are fucking sadists.
These devs are fucking sadists.
To add to my comment above, sometimes it can be worth casting a buff that partially overlaps with something else you have on to get an additional buff to some category the other spell didn't touch, since checking for buff stacking is by buff type and category, e.g. attack bonus, damage bonus, saving throw bonus, etc.
I assume that was obvious, but just in case.
I assume that was obvious, but just in case.
Average Manatee
Arcane
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2012
- Messages
- 14,570
The game tells you both with a tutorial window the first time you have two bonuses that don't stack along with an entire effect icon on your character that indicates duplicate typed buffs.
Dodge (to AC) and untyped are guaranteed to stack. Luck definitely does not. Note that AC bonus and AC enhancement stack, same with natural/natural enhancement and shield/shield enhancement. Generally if anything else stacks with a bonus of the same type to the same stat then its a bug.
Sure. I haven't read those tutorials since Kingmaker and I haven't played either game in over a year now. Still, thanks for the correction. Better reply than: you suck, look at this math sheet! 10+7+8+4+3+2+5 = 39! You even buff, bro!?
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2019
- Messages
- 14,518
Attribute buffs are only a waste if you’re already getting them from items, but the Mass Attribute buff spells are long-lasting, easy to apply, and free up item spots for other bonuses.
Of course Enhancements to STR will stack with Enhancements to Weapons, and the Bonus vs Demons from Crusader’s Edge also stacks ( and adds Sicken on crit).
The categories are Luck, Sacred/Profane, Competence, Morale, Insight, and Circumstance. Each category will stack with everything but itself. Seelah has a first level spell that gives her a scaling Luck bonus tgat shld always be up for boss fights.
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2019
- Messages
- 14,518
Oh for fuck’s sake.
(a) his pic didn’t have anything in it. It was 10 + 1 why won’t this hit bosses?
(b) it’s not a math sheet, its a list of what he was missing, which is what he was asking for
I’m giving him shit because lazy whining is what gets games nerfed and Wrath has been nerfed enough already, especially late game.
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2019
- Messages
- 14,518
lol Luck doesn’t stack with itself, but *he didn’t even have a Luck bonus at all.* You’re just confusing him.
He’s complaining about AB not AC anyway.
Evasion, how does it work?
Fire Resist/Protection is a pretty good idea when fighting Demons. So what if a couple toons die - res them back up. Chapter boss fight is supposed to be tough.
I don't even disagree. I just wish they came up with a better solution than forever buff chains for this.
But, Pathfinder is probably just the wrong game for it, assuming they were obligated to/wanted to actually implement a ton of spells instead of culling the list to an available buff list and then balancing encounters for whatever's been brought in.
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2019
- Messages
- 14,518
I mean yeah, Drrazand's a tough fight, but it's already been nerfed (there used to be two Maralith casters in back that would spam high level AoEs on you). You don't need forever buff chains unless you want to play Unfair and that can be handled by Bubble Buff.
As can be seen in the pic Tuco Benedicto Pacifico posted he has +24 Natural Armor which makes him very vulnerable to Touch Attacks. Max Rod an Enervation to soften him up if you don't have a nuker.
Obv Shatter Defenses is something people use a lot and that would shave off 9 AC (I'm using mod that requires hit at full AC to establish it but vanilla doesn't so all you have to do is Intimidate him, and there are several auto-Shaken effects by the time you get to him).
Divine Favor is +3 Luck, Touch of Good is +7 Sacred by this point if he has Sosiel (Domain Zealot recommended) but Seelah has Eaglesoul for +2 Sacred, Crusader's Edge is another +2 essentially untyped, and Heroism, Greater would be another +3 Morale over Bless. Eagle's Splendor (Mass or single target) is another +2 via the Smite, although she's usually better off getting Mark down first for rest of team.
So that's three long-lasting buffs you might as well cast after resting, two ten round buffs for the boss fight or one swift ability during the fight from Sosiel. She might also be able to Charge on her mount if positioned carfully for another +2.
That alone puts her at +45 with no more help from the team, and she can get to +49 if she turns off Power Attack since Smite already adds good bonus damage. With Shatter she'd be autohit, and even without she's at 75%.
I like to try to apply Sicken and Entangle if I can which takes a good bit off the AC, as does Archon's if you can beat the save, buit you get two bites from Cleric + Pal.
Blazing Parfait (favorite food) even gives her an additional +3 to hit
Here's a pic from just before that fight tanking the High Priest. Missing the +2 from Crusader's Edge since target isn't a Demon.
Half of the Pair is an item you get from Gheybor's Dragon (you buy the other half). Inspiring Sword is an ability from a mod (but could just get that bonus from Eaglesoul), Balanced Defender is a Sword from Labyrinth that gives her +3 to hit if she has a Shield equipped, Robe of Order is from Monk splash, Inspiring Command is Reg Domain, Godclaw Aura is Reg ability, Enforcing Gaze is from Aeon. But she also has -10 in maluses and doesn't have Smite up yet. Thst's what I mean by only needing endless buffs for Unfair, and I'm using most of those just to make up for the cost of getting her AC up to tank.
Don't forget Guidance cantrip if you don't have a Bard/Skald or Guarded Hearth for that Competence lol. Can use whole game.
This one is pretty funny
As can be seen in the pic Tuco Benedicto Pacifico posted he has +24 Natural Armor which makes him very vulnerable to Touch Attacks. Max Rod an Enervation to soften him up if you don't have a nuker.
Obv Shatter Defenses is something people use a lot and that would shave off 9 AC (I'm using mod that requires hit at full AC to establish it but vanilla doesn't so all you have to do is Intimidate him, and there are several auto-Shaken effects by the time you get to him).
Divine Favor is +3 Luck, Touch of Good is +7 Sacred by this point if he has Sosiel (Domain Zealot recommended) but Seelah has Eaglesoul for +2 Sacred, Crusader's Edge is another +2 essentially untyped, and Heroism, Greater would be another +3 Morale over Bless. Eagle's Splendor (Mass or single target) is another +2 via the Smite, although she's usually better off getting Mark down first for rest of team.
So that's three long-lasting buffs you might as well cast after resting, two ten round buffs for the boss fight or one swift ability during the fight from Sosiel. She might also be able to Charge on her mount if positioned carfully for another +2.
That alone puts her at +45 with no more help from the team, and she can get to +49 if she turns off Power Attack since Smite already adds good bonus damage. With Shatter she'd be autohit, and even without she's at 75%.
I like to try to apply Sicken and Entangle if I can which takes a good bit off the AC, as does Archon's if you can beat the save, buit you get two bites from Cleric + Pal.
Blazing Parfait (favorite food) even gives her an additional +3 to hit
Here's a pic from just before that fight tanking the High Priest. Missing the +2 from Crusader's Edge since target isn't a Demon.
Half of the Pair is an item you get from Gheybor's Dragon (you buy the other half). Inspiring Sword is an ability from a mod (but could just get that bonus from Eaglesoul), Balanced Defender is a Sword from Labyrinth that gives her +3 to hit if she has a Shield equipped, Robe of Order is from Monk splash, Inspiring Command is Reg Domain, Godclaw Aura is Reg ability, Enforcing Gaze is from Aeon. But she also has -10 in maluses and doesn't have Smite up yet. Thst's what I mean by only needing endless buffs for Unfair, and I'm using most of those just to make up for the cost of getting her AC up to tank.
Don't forget Guidance cantrip if you don't have a Bard/Skald or Guarded Hearth for that Competence lol. Can use whole game.
This one is pretty funny
Last edited:
Yosharian
Arcane
I'll download this later and help you out if you like. You're trying to fight Darrazand? I don't remember this fight as an Aeon, hmm
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2019
- Messages
- 14,518
Burst of Glory is nice spell for Darrazand since it gives team +1 Sacred bonus to hit and a temp hp bonus to eat the explosion when he dies.
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico
Arcane
Thank you.
And yeah, to be clear I'm not "trying to fight him". I already beat him three times at this point (two more since I started venting in this thread after passing it the first time).
More than anything I'm trying to understand how you can get some vague sense of being in control of this type of fight, rather than relying on the sense that you are crossing your fingers and hoping for RNG in your favor.
Or in other words: how to maximize my chances and be more in control.
Case in point: I still can't deal with blade barrier at all. If I lose the initiative lottery and they cast it before I can make a move, I have to suck it up and there's little I can do beside trying to push my characters through it (or at least out of it, if ranged and not one-shotted in the process).
Yosharian
Arcane
I couldn't download it, I need access apparently
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico
Arcane
I thought I made it public but ok, I just gave you access.
And before you ask, for the record the only "mod" I'm using is a custom portrait.
Yosharian
Arcane
Ok so quick assessment, your two biggest issues are
1) You don't have a dedicated tank
2) Your attack bonus is too low
For reference, your attack bonus of roughly +38 at level 14, is less than what my MC had at level 9 https://i.ibb.co/F3B8CVf/blightmawaintsoscary.jpg (not saying I would expect you to have that much, just offering it as a comparison to a highly optimised party)
This is just me jumping into your game casting GH and activating Prescient Attack so I haven't optimised yet but that's the principal issue, also you don't have much APR at the moment, your APR under haste is 3 for some reason? that seems low. but it's been a while since i played. I think straight SS is kinda lame tbh. Ok yeah looking at D20PFSRD I see that you'll be getting your third iterative next level. That's sad for you but ok we can work with that.
There are other things I could say such as your feat selection is poor (Piranha Strike is a big no-no) and your weapon choice is really dodgy (there are much, much better weapons at this level than a generic Dueling Sword). Also where the fuck is Finnean?
Anyway lemme have another look now at prepping for the fight differently.
BTW you're right that Blade Barrier is a big problem in this fight. I never noticed it because I destroyed these guys in one or two rounds lmao.
Yosharian
Arcane
Can you even respec at this point in the game? I really need to respec your MC
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2019
- Messages
- 14,518
And now the powergheymers come in to totally revamp everything you're doing.
Alternatively you could simply read your spellbook instead of memeing yourself into leaving everything up to powergheymers.
It's just sad.
Alternatively you could simply read your spellbook instead of memeing yourself into leaving everything up to powergheymers.
It's just sad.
Cryomancer
Arcane
If you don't wanna to powergame, is your right, but don't play in hard/unfair. OwlCat has difficulties for those who wanna to beat the game without needing to create pun pun builds.
Yosharian
Arcane
I really need to respec his MC but he is trapped in the boss area lmao
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2019
- Messages
- 14,518
You're not trying to understand anything. You're trying to rationalize throwing up your hands instead of simply playing the damn game half as effectively as you did when you were younger, and you've latched on to any meme you can find to reinforce that.
I thought they nerfed the Blade Barrier casters in the back. Regardless, initiative isn't a dice roll either. The game gives you resources to win initiative without a roll if that's something you want to do.
Here is the first Feat I choose for Seelah and first Mythic so she can get Smite/Mark down on time (she comes with Pickpocket background that gives +2 initiative to give you a hint that this is a good thing to go for):
This is what it eventually looks like if you prioritize intiative:
Wind Master's helm from Ch 3 Greengates is +4 initiative and there are other items and sources you come across while playing the game. If you want to interrupt spells stack initiative on a high DEX character and do it instead of this dice roll horseshit.
Ulitimately even the dice rolls in 5E can be obviated. In PF it's far easier to do. If you miss, Dispel Magic can remove damaging surfaces, as can Radiance by this point IIRC.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2019
- Messages
- 14,518
It turns out you don't even need powerghemed builds to beat those difficulties, which is proven by the half-assed builds most powergheymers come up with still owning.
You do need to be resourceful and on Unfair probably need game knowledge from prior playthroughs to find everything, though a skilled completionist could do it blind I think.
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2019
- Messages
- 14,518
Unfair is easier* with a good tank because it takes a lot of resources to make whole team resilient to adds, which you would have to do without one. Lower difficulties don't need tank, but do need to be able to hit shit.
Best tank can tank Unfair bosses, but you can also just distract those and burn them down fast, or zerg them in RTwP.
*- Uber unfair party:
Ranged single-class Vanguard MC (Aeon) riding Bismuth
Ranged single-class Nomad (via respec mod, ZA3/Druid multi is fine) Lann riding Horse
Single-class Armiger/HK Reg Buffer Dimensional Hop Assassin
Single-class SS Nenio Illusion controller
Pal5/TSS1/Pal8/Trad Monk1/TSS2/Pal3 Seelah Tank
Single-class Sosiel Cleric
Wiz/Dvine/Pal/Ranger spells covered
As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.