Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Enhanced Edition - now with A Dance of Masks epilogue DLC

[Haplo]

Its definately still the case. You can do multiple AoOs vs enemies until they are dead, regardless if they have Combat Reflexes or not.
Tried it yesterday

A bit refreshing not to play a kitsune for a change. I mean, kitsune is still optimal stat-wise with Master Shapeshifter, but a tiny hasty halfling with a considerably sized elven curved blade dancing and running in circles around large demons is just hilarious... Will be even funnier with Microscopic Proportions... like an annoying, buzzing fly, LOL. With a big sting.

Won't work if you don't have Acrobatic Movement triggered, if they have spent their AoO or can't pinpoint you (for example you are invisible/they are blind, feared and probably a couple CC effects more).
Unfortunately can't do it before the enemies have acted, though (unless they have Uncanny Dodge).

Still debating if worth it to get 1 Rowdy / 1 Loremaster for Vital Strike, GVS and Vital Force. Probably not necessary, but maybe good to have a solid Standard action to fall back on in case the method is not fool-proof... or simply to have a good opener/finisher. Also considering picking 4 levels in Instinctual Warrior. More Move Speed (+20 with Rage Power), Initiative and AC, Uncanny Dodge, more attack and damage... should be pretty good.

I made my current character to try and take advantage of this, except Fey Primalist (for animal totem) with a rapier. Currently ML5 so I haven't had a chance to play with the Mobility 2 trick yet (I think they should roll the Perception 2 trick into attaining ML 4 and come up with something else for Perception 2, but anyway). I'm hoping endgame will be me using I think 90ft of movement to proc all the AoOs and then try to end my turn somewhere where I can charge through and proc more AoOs to respond while mythic charge is active.

Hmm, can you explain how do you get 90ft?
Base 30, buff +30 (do some of them stack?), +10 Primalist... where is the rest? Do you also plan to take Fast Movement Rage Powers?

 

[Daidre]

This is why you go for max CHR on Pal:

I do not even understands how this lvl 40 Evagail girl even capable of such a hilariously bad damage per hit with her -11 power attack and lvl 11 Seelah.
I mean any remotely decent char would get at least +55 from Power Attack here and another +11 from Seelah, not even mentioning all the other buff/feats like Favored Enemy and Weapon Training, but she hits like wet noodle with her ~50 dmg hits

Wet noodle legend with 93 AB on core and 49 dmg crits And this guy gives everyone build advises.

 

[Yosharian]

This is why you go for max CHR on Pal:

I do not even understands how this lvl 40 Evagail girl even capable of such a hilariously bad damage per hit with her -11 power attack and lvl 11 Seelah.
I mean any remotely decent char would get at least +55 from Power Attack here and another +11 from Seelah, not even mentioning all the other buff/feats like Favored Enemy and Weapon Training, but she hits like wet noodle with her ~50 dmg hits

Wet noodle legend with 93 AB on core and 49 dmg crits And this guy gives everyone build advises.

49 damage crit with a Legend build? How is that even possible?

 

[Yosharian]

49 damage with a crit isn't possible, you're lying. With the lowest possible crit multiplier that would mean a base damage of 25, there's no way any Legend build does that little damage

 

[IllusiveBrian]

Its definately still the case. You can do multiple AoOs vs enemies until they are dead, regardless if they have Combat Reflexes or not.
Tried it yesterday

A bit refreshing not to play a kitsune for a change. I mean, kitsune is still optimal stat-wise with Master Shapeshifter, but a tiny hasty halfling with a considerably sized elven curved blade dancing and running in circles around large demons is just hilarious... Will be even funnier with Microscopic Proportions... like an annoying, buzzing fly, LOL. With a big sting.

Won't work if you don't have Acrobatic Movement triggered, if they have spent their AoO or can't pinpoint you (for example you are invisible/they are blind, feared and probably a couple CC effects more).
Unfortunately can't do it before the enemies have acted, though (unless they have Uncanny Dodge).

Still debating if worth it to get 1 Rowdy / 1 Loremaster for Vital Strike, GVS and Vital Force. Probably not necessary, but maybe good to have a solid Standard action to fall back on in case the method is not fool-proof... or simply to have a good opener/finisher. Also considering picking 4 levels in Instinctual Warrior. More Move Speed (+20 with Rage Power), Initiative and AC, Uncanny Dodge, more attack and damage... should be pretty good.

I made my current character to try and take advantage of this, except Fey Primalist (for animal totem) with a rapier. Currently ML5 so I haven't had a chance to play with the Mobility 2 trick yet (I think they should roll the Perception 2 trick into attaining ML 4 and come up with something else for Perception 2, but anyway). I'm hoping endgame will be me using I think 90ft of movement to proc all the AoOs and then try to end my turn somewhere where I can charge through and proc more AoOs to respond while mythic charge is active.

You... don't have to take the Perception Trick. Those Feats still cost a Feat. Can't kill a corpse.

My complaint is more that if you take it any later than ML6, it becomes harder to get value out of it since you're running out of general feat slots and all the feats aren't on any bonus lists AFAIK. Maybe it could come with a free respec of your last 5 levels or something.

Its definately still the case. You can do multiple AoOs vs enemies until they are dead, regardless if they have Combat Reflexes or not.
Tried it yesterday

A bit refreshing not to play a kitsune for a change. I mean, kitsune is still optimal stat-wise with Master Shapeshifter, but a tiny hasty halfling with a considerably sized elven curved blade dancing and running in circles around large demons is just hilarious... Will be even funnier with Microscopic Proportions... like an annoying, buzzing fly, LOL. With a big sting.

Won't work if you don't have Acrobatic Movement triggered, if they have spent their AoO or can't pinpoint you (for example you are invisible/they are blind, feared and probably a couple CC effects more).
Unfortunately can't do it before the enemies have acted, though (unless they have Uncanny Dodge).

Still debating if worth it to get 1 Rowdy / 1 Loremaster for Vital Strike, GVS and Vital Force. Probably not necessary, but maybe good to have a solid Standard action to fall back on in case the method is not fool-proof... or simply to have a good opener/finisher. Also considering picking 4 levels in Instinctual Warrior. More Move Speed (+20 with Rage Power), Initiative and AC, Uncanny Dodge, more attack and damage... should be pretty good.

I made my current character to try and take advantage of this, except Fey Primalist (for animal totem) with a rapier. Currently ML5 so I haven't had a chance to play with the Mobility 2 trick yet (I think they should roll the Perception 2 trick into attaining ML 4 and come up with something else for Perception 2, but anyway). I'm hoping endgame will be me using I think 90ft of movement to proc all the AoOs and then try to end my turn somewhere where I can charge through and proc more AoOs to respond while mythic charge is active.

Hmm, can you explain how do you get 90ft?
Base 30, buff +30 (do some of them stack?), +10 Primalist... where is the rest? Do you also plan to take Fast Movement Rage Powers?

Base 30, haste +30 = 60 * 1.5 from Mob 1. I had forgotten about fast movement actually.

 

[Daidre]

49 damage with a crit isn't possible, you're lying. With the lowest possible crit multiplier that would mean a base damage of 25, there's no way any Legend build does that little damage

There is two hits for 49 and 50 in his log - crit and non-crit, but crit was eaten by Fortification.

But number is still hilarious for 40 BAB build, as you can see in attack breakdown, especially when there is something that looks suspiciously like pet (Bite + Trip) Rowan hitting for 82 dmg in the same picture.

 

[Yosharian]

Hmm. Well 50 is still weak as fuck for a Legend build even if that's a regular hit

 

[RunningWolf]

Wet noodle legend with 93 AB on core and 49 dmg crits And this guy gives everyone build advises.

Hey give the guy a break. He said some pages ago that you don't need to have more damage. He just follows his own advice.

 

[Desiderius]

This is why you go for max CHR on Pal:

I do not even understands how this lvl 40 Evagail girl even capable of such a hilariously bad damage per hit with her -11 power attack and lvl 11 Seelah.
I mean any remotely decent char would get at least +55 from Power Attack here and another +11 from Seelah, not even mentioning all the other buff/feats like Favored Enemy and Weapon Training, but she hits like wet noodle with her ~50 dmg hits

Wet noodle legend with 93 AB on core and 49 dmg crits And this guy gives everyone build advises.

Lol I knew you’d say that but you’re clowning yourself. Why would she need anymore with nine attacks + the AoOs from Disarm and the extra damage from Disarming Strike?

You’re the one jizzing yourself over your face-melting rays and she’s doing 500 per round min with auto attacks.

If you’ll notice on the pic she did crit which kicks it up to 120 or so (Deskari’s Fortification canceled it) and with Improved Crit and Perfect Strike she’s built to crit (free Disarm on crit).

I’m trading the extra damage I don’t need for CMB, AC, and Saves and that -4 AC debuff for the team on Crippling Crit + big debuffs from Shatter Confidence.

Notice even Bismuth getting in on the action.

 

[Desiderius]

Wet noodle legend with 93 AB on core and 49 dmg crits And this guy gives everyone build advises.

Hey give the guy a break. He said some pages ago that you don't need to have more damage. He just follows his own advice.

Can’t kill a corpse geniuses. If 500 a round on an unhittable tank/debuffer isn’t enough what’s rest of your team doing?

 

[RunningWolf]

Can’t kill a corpse geniuses. If 500 a round on an unhittable tank/debuffer isn’t enough what’s rest of your team doing?

A problem with your logic is that its not a Zero-sum game. You can deal enormous damage in a round and be immortal tank. Funny how you invent faggy word salads like "one-wierd-trick", yet at the end of the day its nothing but projection.

 

[Desiderius]

Legend does have a downside too. She lost Leading Strike, Ever Ready, and the Trickster Sneaks which were generating a lot of her damage. She did pick up the ability to Parry anything (works on Nat 20s) and all the great stuff from Duelist 10, Swordlord 10, and full Aldori Defender 20.

I may have been slumming it at that point too since it was my Core playthrough and was just rolling everything. Missing Edge and Holy at least I’d guess.

 

[Desiderius]

Can’t kill a corpse geniuses. If 500 a round on an unhittable tank/debuffer isn’t enough what’s rest of your team doing?

A problem with your logic is that its not a Zero-sum game. You can deal enormous damage in a round and be immortal tank. Funny how you invent faggy word salads like "one-wierd-trick", yet at the end of the day its nothing but projection.

Not if you’re investing your skills and abilities in things you need like AC, Saves, debuffs, and Parry (Other) to stop Nat 20s on your team instead of things you don’t. Look at the log. How many attacks is Deskari getting? How many rounds do you think he lived? Hurr durr Unfair. Done the same on Unfair and posted pics. You don’t think beating Deskari’s AC by… checks notes… 55 translates to Unfair?

This isn’t Deadfire. There are no bullet-sponges. You don’t need that much damage. On the higher difficulties you do need resilience and the ability to make sure you’re the one presenting the threats and not the enemy.

When will you ankle-biting phaggots ever learn? I’m not doing less damage because I can’t do more, since the rest of my team isn’t sitting around picking their noses or being “buffbots” or “healers” like this were some shitty MMO I’m doing all I need to eliminate/neutralize threats ASAP.

 

[Desiderius]

49 damage with a crit isn't possible, you're lying. With the lowest possible crit multiplier that would mean a base damage of 25, there's no way any Legend build does that little damage

There is two hits for 49 and 50 in his log - crit and non-crit, but crit was eaten by Fortification.

But number is still hilarious for 40 BAB build, as you can see in attack breakdown, especially when there is something that looks suspiciously like pet (Bite + Trip) Rowan hitting for 82 dmg in the same picture.

Yep that’s Lann’s Mount with 53 STR.

When you’ve got Bismuth for God’s sake doing close to 50 why do I need more than 500 damage a round on MC?

Seriously don’t get the point you’re trying to make. If you want to solo solo. If you’re not that’s plenty of damage. I’m playing tinman (minimal reloads) with full party so go for things like initiative and CMs/debuffs/disables instead.

OK, you’re designing for something entirely superfluous. I’m supposed to be embarrassed by that?

Looks like the initial Charge critted on that fight (the Crippling Crit AC malus) which triggered a free Disarm (of Riftcarver) with CMB higher than his CMD, likewise on the Trip, which isn’t easy to do even on Core. Debuff/Disable + (enough) damage is the whole strategy.

Duelist 5 gives Combat Reflexes and her DEX bonus is 13. AoO on every Deskari attack from attacking Unarmed, from Riposte on Parry, from Outflank and Seize the Moment + Fighter’s Tactics, from standing up from Trip, and probably two or three other things I’m forgetting so effectively what 12 attacks per round sometimes more? Are there mobs with 20,000 Hp I’m forgetting?

 

[Stoned Ape]

Just wanted to say I'm having a blast with my Lich Gish build so far. Just reached level 16 about 1/4 of the way through Act 4 and it's been the most fun I've had with the game.

The party is really fun to play and synergizes very well together, I like all the character builds I'm trying out and it's great to have a Gish that actually effective in both melee and magic without losing much effectiveness in either. Also, Corrupt Magic is the most incredible spell ever.

Some of the spell effects weren't showing up on the sheet so I scribbled them on; damage should be (3d6+31 (base)) + (2d6 Holy (from great sword)) +(1d6 +19 (from Vampiric Blade Spell which also heals for equal value)). Vampiric Blade also triggers on hit from both Dragon Bite and Magic Gore.

AC is 55 with Seamantle against anything that doesn't have freedom of movement. Will take Improved Initiative next level up; I've been using a helm for +4 init but swapped it out for an intimidate mask just before I took this and forgot to put it back on.

Also have Mind Blank (communal) running and protection from spells available to cast, so saves aren't as uninspiring as they look at first glance.

H's currently Caster Level 21 after the 5th Mythic Rank Lich buff.

Really didn't expect Lich to be so much more fun to play than Angel, those Bolts/Storm of Justice and Ward spells are OP but boring compared to Lich magic.

Overall, Angel is much stronger, but I didn't like my companion builds as much and felt as if I was pretty much soloing the game with a bunch of sidekicks. This run feels like a proper team effort in comparison.

 

[Desiderius]

Felt same way with merged Angel. Angel on a Martial is a good combo. Really liked it on QStaff Master. Unlike other Mythic Spellbooks it starts on lvl 3 even unmerged.

 

[Daidre]

Can’t kill a corpse geniuses. If 500 a round on an unhittable tank/debuffer isn’t enough what’s rest of your team doing?

Don't need to tank, disarm or debuff corpse too. And if full martial 40 BAB legend can't kill enemy with his one full attack on Core, with ton of buffs like Mark of Justice, then what such character is even doing in the discussion about build performance?

PS there are tricky cases like Areelu with 50% miss chance from Areshkagal aspect, but tank/disarmer is more worthless there, not less. Btw somebody knows, if Judge's ability counters that buff?

 

[Desiderius]

Again, why are you trying to solo a game with six party members, one of which has 53 STR? I look at a 53 STR Mount and think “ok that’s doing good damage, I can focus on something else I need, including keeping it alive and making sure it hits” instead of “how can I win a pissing contest with it on my tiny Halfling MC?”

Who is also doing 500 a round anyway which is more than enough especially with six other characters also doing close to that. Again, what’s the point?

You’re the one casting Mass Heals by your own admission, not me.

 

[Desiderius]

Can’t kill a corpse geniuses. If 500 a round on an unhittable tank/debuffer isn’t enough what’s rest of your team doing?

Don't need to tank, disarm or debuff corpse too. And if full martial 40 BAB legend can't kill enemy with his one full attack on Core, with ton of buffs like Mark of Justice, then what such character is even doing in the discussion about build performance?

PS there are tricky cases like Areelu with 50% miss chance from Areshkagal aspect, but tank/disarmer is more worthless there, not less. Btw somebody knows, if Judge's ability counters that buff?

All those attacks with infinite AB and ten activations of Perfect Strike is one way around 50% miss. Can’t remember is she crit/fear immune? Parry tanks for whole front line including stopping nat 20s (only triggers when needed) which is great for 90% of fights.

There’s a long list of unique abilities Duelist/Swordlord gives you then with Legend you get full effect from Trained Reflexes and Armed Bravery on top of Fighter’s Tactics + Shake it Off. Seems like those high saves were good vs Areelu but can’t remember.

 

[Daidre]

Again, why are you trying to solo a game with six party members, one of which has 53 STR? I look at a 53 STR Mount and think “ok that’s doing good damage, I can focus on something else I need, including keeping it alive and making sure it hits” instead of “how can I win a pissing contest with it on my tiny Halfling MC?”

It rubs me the wrong way when I see something like Legend with 40 class lvls and full bab built around supporting the party. Devoting the character who can theoretically reach heights that no one is the party could even approach to, to the functions that could be adequately performed by hireling with 20 PB or even by the pet dog for like 90% of time, is very very meh for me. I hate seeing wasted potential and annoyed when someone promotes it.

All those attacks with infinite AB and ten activations of Perfect Strike is one way around 50% miss.

And here you are, talking out of your ass again.

Spoiler

Lann's first 2 attacks are eaten by Areshkagal aspect and Perfect Strike only applied to the third one that got more than 50% on it's un-counterable Concealment roll. It means that Perfect Strike is applied after Areshkagal aspect and absolutely worthless against it. Kinda like infinite AB and your advise for that particular case.

 

[Yosharian]

Can’t kill a corpse geniuses. If 500 a round on an unhittable tank/debuffer isn’t enough what’s rest of your team doing?

Don't need to tank, disarm or debuff corpse too. And if full martial 40 BAB legend can't kill enemy with his one full attack on Core, with ton of buffs like Mark of Justice, then what such character is even doing in the discussion about build performance?

PS there are tricky cases like Areelu with 50% miss chance from Areshkagal aspect, but tank/disarmer is more worthless there, not less. Btw somebody knows, if Judge's ability counters that buff?

Last time we discussed it in Discord, Greater Sentence was doing absolutely nothing.

Judge has definitely fallen from favour in my eyes, the action economy is absolute garbage, especially if you take Domain Zealot. The current meta Inquisitor is Sanctified Slayer because you get +AB/DMG without having to dump your Swift Action at the beginning of each fight - also you get a spare mythic ability since you don't have to take Everlasting Judgement.

That said, Guarded Hearth might be getting dumpstered next patch so bear that in mind

 

[Yosharian]

AFAIK Areelu's concealment is based off the demon ability Aspect of Areshkagal which is a supernatural ability which can't be countered by anything

BTW there is an interesting interaction with Displacement and that ability, if you have Blind-Fight and don't debuff her Displacement (or bypass it with True Seeing etc) then you get to reroll vs her Displacement using BF and you never even interact with AoA

Spoiler

AFAIK this interaction still works

 

[Desiderius]

From that same playthrough. Wasn't even bothering with half her buffs or Mark etc...

To save [USER=26166]Daidre[/USER]'s bandwidth, pics are behind button

There are a *lot* of debuff options out there.

Damage at lvl 11:



Applying Shatter Confidence on Playful (Core):



Seelah wasn't even here? Who knows what I was doing. The Shatter Confidence would have set up Reg for the kill but he was wearing the bugged Haste necklace so couldn't attack. Once it wore off he (and Lann IIRC) did but MC got mauled in the meantime. Unfair add on Touch of Good with Mark from Seelah and this gets there.

Shatter Confidence + Disarming Strike on Soul Hunter:



The Intimidate from Shatter Confidence applies before the Disarm on Disarming Strike that triggers from the crit so helps land the Disarm, but it uses AB instead of CM on the Disarm, which can be good or bad. Mark not down yet here either. First playthrough still missing some things. Hence Core.

Mythic Trick Knowledge (World) 2 was sorely missed after going Legend:



Changes Crit miss into crit.

Parry into Disarm on Vavakia Vanguard:



Pretty nice CMB there! Looks like it's Parrying an attack on Daeran from across the screen? The big malus suggests it's covering multiple characters. STR drain not fun, but we got him.

Parrying a nat 20:



That big malus would be a steep hill to climb on Unfair. But you can see there's still a good bit of cushion. Not sure if it's working as intended or not.

About those saves:



Looks like Dueling Gloves gives +2 bonus on Reflex with Trained Reflexes as well.

Doing a little more damage on this fight:



40 lvls = ten activations of Perfect Strike with no Monk lvls lol.

Finally the Disarm on Riftcarver which was the original goal of the build:

 

[IllusiveBrian]

Finally the Disarm on Riftcarver which was the original goal of the build:

View attachment 26987

Does disarming Deskari let you pick it up?

 

[Daidre]

From that same playthrough. Wasn't even bothering with half her buffs or Mark etc...

I hate to break the mood, but I got like 50-150 kb bandwidth in this beautiful place. I am not ready to load any more of your pictures for the sake of an argument)
But from the one I have actually loaded: why Deskari is smacking Lann with Scythe for 70 dmg when you got unhittable disarming tank with amazing initiative on your semi-iron-men?

And I am kinda wondering if your unhittable tank could tank Playful Darkness from round 1 without army of summons?)