Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Enhanced Edition - now with The Lord of Nothing DLC

[ga♥]

Forced myself to finish the DLC today.
Even found the secret miniboss, which wasn't that impressive, even if he managed to drain levels to death Kestoglyr (bug or intended? it's a mistery).
The hardest fight of the DLC is completely optional and with 0 rewards if you go for it, not even an item drop.

Spoiler

Mephistoteles

The final battle was too easy.

Differently from when it came out, they nerfed anomalies effects, as they finish at the end of the battle instead of being permanent requiring a scroll or remove curse (thanks to this I ditched Staunthon as I didn't need his remove curse anymore).

 

[Sarathiour]

Rando Thoughtful are you par any chance high ?

 

[Kaivokz]

Is the Tabletop Tweaks mod worth using? Was looking primarily at changes to heavy armor.

I had to put my old game on hold because of real life stuff. I was playing a paladin; core felt too easy, but if I switched up to hard his AC in heavy armor was lacking (I only got near the end of act 2).

I’d rather play on core than use monk/witch dip or nature’s whispers. I was thinking of trying a battle oracle with heavy armor.

I was also planning on making a fully custom party this time, since I can’t stand most of the companions. Lan and sometimes Regill were the only ones I could handle. So maybe with a more powerful party, vanilla heavy armor hard would be fine.

 

[Acrux]

What do you mean by "worth using"? It does make some of the rules more like tabletop. I wish they would correct flanking. I haven't encountered any (extra) bugs with it, if that's what you mean.

 

[Kaivokz]

I don't really know that much about pathfinder pnp rules, so I don't know if authentic to tabletop means better; I guess, does it add to the fun / build variety? Specifically wrt. heavy armor builds. I read that it adds a new mythic ability that makes heavy armor on par with the improved mage armor (+1/2 mythic rank to armor bonus when wearing armor), probably not necessary for core difficulty, but maybe makes armored fighter w/o a shield a little more viable on hard.

 

[Desiderius]

I don't really know that much about pathfinder pnp rules, so I don't know if authentic to tabletop means better; I guess, does it add to the fun / build variety? Specifically wrt. heavy armor builds. I read that it adds a new mythic ability that makes heavy armor on par with the improved mage armor (+1/2 mythic rank to armor bonus when wearing armor), probably not necessary for core difficulty, but maybe makes armored fighter w/o a shield a little more viable on hard.

It's already viable on Hard.

Archmage Armor is a meme. Mythic abilities are your scarcest resource. You can't afford to blow one on a couple AC when you've already got a proficiency and there are good items for that slot with other benefits.

 

[Delterius]

I don't really know that much about pathfinder pnp rules, so I don't know if authentic to tabletop means better; I guess, does it add to the fun / build variety? Specifically wrt. heavy armor builds. I read that it adds a new mythic ability that makes heavy armor on par with the improved mage armor (+1/2 mythic rank to armor bonus when wearing armor), probably not necessary for core difficulty, but maybe makes armored fighter w/o a shield a little more viable on hard.

It's already viable on Hard.

Archmage Armor is a meme. Mythic abilities are your scarcest resource. You can't afford to blow one on a couple AC when you've already got a proficiency and there are good items for that slot with other benefits.

I agree that a l o t of people seem to not understand what opportunity costs are. I've seen people being like, 'well I want to play a sword mage but I don't have to be Magus/Eldritch Knight because I can just use Trickster UMD 3'. Broflovski thats 80% into the game or something.

However Tabletop Tweaks is still worth a look since it's rules changes are comprehensive and change the game/encounters/experience as a whole. It's not just adding features for armor users, it's re-avaluating bonus stackings that benefit both the player and the enemy. Plus it fixes some bugs.

 

[Kaivokz]

It's already viable on Hard.

Archmage Armor is a meme. Mythic abilities are your scarcest resource. You can't afford to blow one on a couple AC when you've already got a proficiency and there are good items for that slot with other benefits.

Well, that’s what I want; as I said I don’t want to go archmage armor / monk dip, since I don’t want to build a character around that.

It’s been awhile since I played so I can’t say exactly where I had trouble on hard, but I basically ended up relying on animal companions to draw attention if there was ever more than 1 enemy or else casting lots of grease.

20 ac with full plate and a double gripped longsword felt pretty lackluster—I guess I could go martial discipline background -> crane wing feats.

There aren’t that many defensive buffs which work on such a character early on—shield of faith, blur, haste, magical vestments can kind of help you keep up but you don’t even get +3 until level 12 caster, right?… whereas unarmored is pretty easy to scale just by buffing dex/wis/cha, drinking potions of normal mage armor, etc.

 

[Desiderius]

It's already viable on Hard.

Archmage Armor is a meme. Mythic abilities are your scarcest resource. You can't afford to blow one on a couple AC when you've already got a proficiency and there are good items for that slot with other benefits.

Well, that’s what I want; as I said I don’t want to go archmage armor / monk dip, since I don’t want to build a character around that.

It’s been awhile since I played so I can’t say exactly where I had trouble on hard, but I basically ended up relying on animal companions to draw attention if there was ever more than 1 enemy or else casting lots of grease.

20 ac with full plate and a double gripped longsword felt pretty lackluster—I guess I could go martial discipline background -> crane wing feats.

There aren’t that many defensive buffs which work on such a character early on—shield of faith, blur, haste, magical vestments can kind of help you keep up but you don’t even get +3 until level 12 caster, right?… whereas unarmored is pretty easy to scale just by buffing dex/wis/cha, drinking potions of normal mage armor, etc.

Best defense is a good offense. And using offensive spells of level higher than one/the good Mythics that accentuate the strengths of your class. Grease isn't the end-all/be-all here that is in in other D&D games.

Crane is another meme. You have good feats that will help you kill things before than can attack at all.

That said you can get your AC a good bit higher than 20 IIRC. Barkskin is long lasting. I'm not playing the game until they're done with DLCs so not up an the latest but sounds like you'd have more fun on Core until you're blowing that out. It's the equivalent of Hard in other games.

 

[The_Mask]

Welcome back, Desiderius monk-bro.

 

[Desiderius]

This is a level 9 Aldori Defender at 46AC if you want to play a Fighter with some good defense. Works well with Trickster. Ended up as a god with Legend and ten levels of Duelist and Aldori Sworlord.



The flip side is making sure you've got the other side debuffed with Archon's Aura, Shaken and Sicken, etc...

 

[razvedchiki]

you can get an alchemist cast shield on you and get +4ac. tabletop tweaks should already add the unhindering shield feat which allows bucklers ac with 2 handed/double grip weapons.

 

[Haplo]

Welcome back, Desiderius monk-bro.

Indeed, welcome back.

You've been missed, Desiderius.

 

[Daidre]

Tabletop Tweaks has a pretty nice Two-Weapon Defense and its Mythic Version to add weapon enhancement bonus as shield. Mod also extends Fighter's Weapon and Armor training and adds Armor Focus for even more AC.
I had built Regill around it, with Two-Weapon Defense, Crane Style, Heavy Armor Focus and new mythic feats for armor he was nice and sturdy enough to reasonably tank on Hard.

Mod itself is a huge recommend from me. It is completely configurable so any fix/addition could be switched on/off separately in mod menu and incredibly stable too.

 

[ga♥]

Tabletop Tweaks has a pretty nice Two-Weapon Defense and its Mythic Version to add weapon enhancement bonus as shield. Mod also extends Fighter's Weapon and Armor training and adds Armor Focus for even more AC.
I had built Regill around it, with Two-Weapon Defense, Crane Style, Heavy Armor Focus and new mythic feats for armor he was nice and sturdy enough to reasonably tank on Hard.

Mod itself is a huge recommend from me. It is completely configurable so any fix/addition could be switched on/off separately in mod menu and incredibly stable too.

Seems its worth to install it even to only have the "covenant of the inheritor" not turning off after a load/reload or area transition. Very annoying and still not fixed.

 

[Cryomancer]

Will the new DLC introduce new classes/races/mythic paths/wathever or be just boring trial and error puzzle?

 

[InD_ImaginE]

Will the new DLC introduce new classes/races/mythic paths/wathever or be just boring trial and error puzzle?

Nothing is said on them so probably no. The next DLC releasing end of month seems to be low level campaign. The last one is the "infinite mode" like that dungeon in Kingmaker with the silver dragon.

The only big class remaining not in game is probably Summoner, something that thematically fits the game, but Owlcat said during KS that there is no plan to add it to the game.

Mythic Path is probably squarely on 100% not gonna happen territory. Once again no mention of it at all. Granted they could be releasing big massive DLC outside of the season pass, but currently no.

 

[Desiderius]

you can get an alchemist cast shield on you and get +4ac. tabletop tweaks should already add the unhindering shield feat which allows bucklers ac with 2 handed/double grip weapons.

It's a lot harder to get an Alchemist in Wrath than PK.

Core = if you play well you can do anything you want (including tanking bosses) with any class/party makeup.

Hard = if you want to tank bosses (I don't) you're somewhat restricted in what classes/parties you can do it with, but for everything else you can get enough AC through regular means to be fine with any class/party

Unfair = you need certain support (like Skald merc with Guarded Stance) or tactics (like summon diversion) to avoid attacks from regular mobs. You can tank and spank/virtually solo with a couple classes (including those using Crane/Archmage, but not exclusively those) but you sacrifice resilience/versatility and the fights often take longer than they need to making the game feel harder than it is.

 

[Desiderius]

Wildcards/Varnholds added a ton of QoL improvements and cleaned up a lot of garbage for PK.

So far it looks like the DLCs for Wrath are a continuation of the Endless Depths half-assery. Seems like they're too distracted by the Poz horeshit and now being on the wrong (NATO) side of a war to rise to their former levels.

 

[Kaivokz]

Indeed, welcome back.

You've been missed, Desiderius.

I really just posted about mythic mage armor and monk dips because I knew Desiderius couldn’t resist dropping in to tell me they’re memes.

Best defense is a good offense. And using offensive spells of level higher than one/the good Mythics that accentuate the strengths of your class. Grease isn't the end-all/be-all here that is in in other D&D games.

Yeah, it’s probably bad habits of thinking that I’ve formed where in other D&D games, gishes of course become very strong, but a fighter putting on their first suit of full plate is also a significant change that allows toe-to-toe combat, at least at lower levels.

I might hire a merc skald and play on hard/unfair (I did an unfair run up to chapter 2 with an inquisitor/monk using quarterstaves for flurry alongside my paladin game on core/hard, but didn’t like the gamey-ness of the build).

 

[Infinitron]

 

[InD_ImaginE]

This makes it looks like DLC will be some sort of adventure game instead of proper RPG. I guess I wouldn't mind if game actually utilize build and all to an effect of adventure games but if it is linear click at this click at that (which is very likely considering Owlcat weak non combat skills utilization outside of Diplomacy in KM and WotR) then the DLC will be incredibly one note.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Eh, even if it's a one and done, it looks like an interesting contrast and perspective on events compared to the MC's journey.

 

[Cryomancer]

From lv 40(or 20/10 mythic) to a lv 0 peasant, very interesting contrast.

 

[Desiderius]

This makes it looks like DLC will be some sort of adventure game instead of proper RPG. I guess I wouldn't mind if game actually utilize build and all to an effect of adventure games but if it is linear click at this click at that (which is very likely considering Owlcat weak non combat skills utilization outside of Diplomacy in KM and WotR) then the DLC will be incredibly one note.

There’s all kinds of non-combat skill utilization in P:K/Wrath. People fall for memes, neglect their skills, then whine about the skill checks they don’t even know they’re missing.

Many such cases.