Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[IllusiveBrian]

Well, I'm pondering trying the Trickster Mobility 2 AoO build. No use for Pounce and Bite then. But can certainly use 2 more Mobility. In fact on Hard and above I feel you should squeeze every single skill point you can get to beat the CMD of (mostly) everybody. Makes for a nice change of playstyle - but also another challenge.

I find the big chunks (and Shatter lol) help more with the CMs than the little bits here and there, especially when they cost a Mythic. CMs are usually one per round (and save or die) so you can work in True Strike and the like to land them (Touch of Good/Luck are Full Round anyway) on the really hard stuff and shouldn’t need to squeeze out every advantage on regular mobs.

Does the Mobility build use CMs? There are some items you can use to pass the Mobility skill checks.

On Unfair Last Stand seems pretty obligatory and Ever Ready will give you bigger bonuses than the Polymorph. I like Leadership on a non-caster and Rupture as well.

Going down a Feat (vs Human) then needing additional Feats for Finesse and DEX-to-dam all so you can burn an additional Mythic for the Polymorph bonus seems counterproductive.

You'd be 100% right were it about Combat Maneuvers, Desiderius. But this time, it is not. The Trickster Mobility check to avoid the enemy AoO and counter is Vs CMD. And it can get pretty high... was it 130-ish on Deskari? Or "only" 110-ish?
And I don't think I can use Shatter here. Maybe some CC, like Blindness.

So I'd really need every point here - not only to avoid the enemy attack - but also to trigger own - and even 1 failure vs many enemies means they sped their only AoO and can no longer be provoked that round.

I'm trying to decipher exactly what the mechanics are but I thought that all the checks were against mobility, is there a CMD check in there somewhere?

 

[Desiderius]

Well, I'm pondering trying the Trickster Mobility 2 AoO build. No use for Pounce and Bite then. But can certainly use 2 more Mobility. In fact on Hard and above I feel you should squeeze every single skill point you can get to beat the CMD of (mostly) everybody. Makes for a nice change of playstyle - but also another challenge.

I find the big chunks (and Shatter lol) help more with the CMs than the little bits here and there, especially when they cost a Mythic. CMs are usually one per round (and save or die) so you can work in True Strike and the like to land them (Touch of Good/Luck are Full Round anyway) on the really hard stuff and shouldn’t need to squeeze out every advantage on regular mobs.

Does the Mobility build use CMs? There are some items you can use to pass the Mobility skill checks.

On Unfair Last Stand seems pretty obligatory and Ever Ready will give you bigger bonuses than the Polymorph. I like Leadership on a non-caster and Rupture as well.

Going down a Feat (vs Human) then needing additional Feats for Finesse and DEX-to-dam all so you can burn an additional Mythic for the Polymorph bonus seems counterproductive.

You'd be 100% right were it about Combat Maneuvers, Desiderius. But this time, it is not. The Trickster Mobility check to avoid the enemy AoO and counter is Vs CMD. And it can get pretty high... was it 130-ish on Deskari? Or "only" 110-ish?
And I don't think I can use Shatter here. Maybe some CC, like Blindness.

So I'd really need every point here - not only to avoid the enemy attack - but also to trigger own - and even 1 failure vs many enemies means they sped their only AoO and can no longer be provoked that round.

Interesting. Did they change the Mobility trick to make it harder to exploit? Not sure why CMD would even be relevant unless they explicitly changed that trick to make it harder.

Shatter typically works against CMD with the way Shatter works in the OC games (don’t need to hit first) even on CMs. I guess since this is a weird skill check vs CMD (?) maybe it wouldn’t. A job for a Magus Arcana? Or would it have the same problem (no attack to use bypass on)?

Trying to get to 130 or whatever stacking two at a time is fraught with peril when there are substantial opportunity costs. You might want to check with Vek on Discord since he seemed to be getting arbitrarily high Mobility for his build.

 

[The_Mask]

If I pay any of you $20, can you get me through The Enigma?

 

[Haplo]

Well, I'm pondering trying the Trickster Mobility 2 AoO build. No use for Pounce and Bite then. But can certainly use 2 more Mobility. In fact on Hard and above I feel you should squeeze every single skill point you can get to beat the CMD of (mostly) everybody. Makes for a nice change of playstyle - but also another challenge.

I find the big chunks (and Shatter lol) help more with the CMs than the little bits here and there, especially when they cost a Mythic. CMs are usually one per round (and save or die) so you can work in True Strike and the like to land them (Touch of Good/Luck are Full Round anyway) on the really hard stuff and shouldn’t need to squeeze out every advantage on regular mobs.

Does the Mobility build use CMs? There are some items you can use to pass the Mobility skill checks.

On Unfair Last Stand seems pretty obligatory and Ever Ready will give you bigger bonuses than the Polymorph. I like Leadership on a non-caster and Rupture as well.

Going down a Feat (vs Human) then needing additional Feats for Finesse and DEX-to-dam all so you can burn an additional Mythic for the Polymorph bonus seems counterproductive.

You'd be 100% right were it about Combat Maneuvers, Desiderius. But this time, it is not. The Trickster Mobility check to avoid the enemy AoO and counter is Vs CMD. And it can get pretty high... was it 130-ish on Deskari? Or "only" 110-ish?
And I don't think I can use Shatter here. Maybe some CC, like Blindness.

So I'd really need every point here - not only to avoid the enemy attack - but also to trigger own - and even 1 failure vs many enemies means they sped their only AoO and can no longer be provoked that round.

Interesting. Did they change the Mobility trick to make it harder to exploit? Not sure why CMD would even be relevant unless they explicitly changed that trick to make it harder.

Shatter typically works against CMD with the way Shatter works in the OC games (don’t need to hit first) even on CMs. I guess since this is a weird skill check vs CMD (?) maybe it wouldn’t. A job for a Magus Arcana? Or would it have the same problem (no attack to use bypass on)?

Trying to get to 130 or whatever stacking two at a time is fraught with peril when there are substantial opportunity costs. You might want to check with Vek on Discord since he seemed to be getting arbitrarily high Mobility for his build.

Thanks for the advice. I believe the Acrobatics Mobility check to avoid movement AoOs was always against enemy CMD, as per the Pathfinder rules. Usually It just didn't cause counters.

 

[Acrux]

If I pay any of you $20, can you get me through The Enigma?

Sure:

https://www.nexusmods.com/pathfinderwrathoftherighteous/mods/246

Allows you to skip right past.

You can pay me in brofists.

 

[Desiderius]

Ok, I’ll play around with it tonight. I guess you’re priced in to DEX-based if you need to get that high. Does it let you Vital Strike on AoOs? Usually don’t worry about weapon dice with DEX-based, especially since you’ll get Microscopic.

Master of All gives you some Skill Focus Feats and Spelldancer a Mobility boost when you cast a spell(?). It’s generally easier to boost skills than stats but you may need both.

Yes, Serus and RunningWolf I just beclowned myself with negative theorycrafting regarding an ability I’ve never tried. Now I’ll go test some things instead of spamming Haplo with butthurt emojis.

 

[Haplo]

No, its not possible to make AoO Vital Strikes, as far as I'm aware. It's just a solid backup option, I think. In case I can't reliably beat the enemy CMD for example. Or when the enemies are still flat-footed and can't do AoOs. Or can combine both: Standard Action Vital Strike + Move Action Mobility AoOs.

And Skill Focus is nice, but you only really need one (plus maybe Mythic). No reason to get a class focused on that.
Spelldancer could be interesting, but not sure if the best.

 

[Desiderius]

IDK, DEX-based seems to be a better fit with full attax with high quantity? Then you don’t have bother with weapon dice at all. Doesn’t fit great with AoOs which is why I was thinking STR-based initially.

 

[razvedchiki]

is there any min max reason to play a dhampir race?

 

[The_Mask]

is there any min max reason to play a dhampir race?

If you're not going to provide an ancestry, then this question seems like something you would ask yourself in the mirror.

 

[Desiderius]

is there any min max reason to play a dhampir race?

Unique Feats. Cruromancer looks like rare swing and a miss.

 

[Desiderius]

Threw together a Mobility Trickster. Man, Tabletop Tweaks Mythic Tricks are awesome. Worth checking out. But Mobility looks unchanged. From a reloaded and retrained lvl 17, Mythic 6 Trickster (so no Microscopic yet):



This is unbuffed (other than Reduce) and missing the Athletics/Mobility +4/+4 Feat Tweaks adds. So could get another 15-20 without much work. Another 40 who knows? Can also debuff the CMD of the boss in various ways or just focus on using it to clear out regular mobs easily while enjoying the other awesome Mythic tricks. Trickery 3 changes the Dispel range to Close from Touch (while giving a substantial debuff + kill chance) so that could soften up CMDs as well.

 

[Haplo]

Threw together a Mobility Trickster. Man, Tabletop Tweaks Mythic Tricks are awesome. Worth checking out. But Mobility looks unchanged. From a reloaded and retrained lvl 17, Mythic 6 Trickster (so no Microscopic yet):

View attachment 27142

This is unbuffed (other than Reduce) and missing the Athletics/Mobility +4/+4 Feat Tweaks adds. So could get another 15-20 without much work. Another 40 who knows? Can also debuff the CMD of the boss in various ways or just focus on using it to clear out regular mobs easily while enjoying the other awesome Mythic tricks. Trickery 3 changes the Dispel range to Close from Touch (while giving a substantial debuff + kill chance) so that could soften up CMDs as well.

Thanks Desiderius, you're always helpful and willing to spend time to test new things and give feedback.

The kinda sad thing is that in my yesterday level 10 Drezen Sword of Valor test build, artificially raised to MR 4 to get the Trick (well, its less then half a chapter away in any case), I managed double the AC (granted, buffed) and almost same buffed Mobility score (once we remove the OP late game items and one of Stealthy/Monkey) at 43 - incidentally same as Staunton's CMD (I now wonder if I had Heroism active). Not enough to fully reliably troll Minagho, but I guess she's supposed to be a little OP at that point. And I think with Mythic Skill Focus to only roll 10+ it would have been enough.

Even sadder that I guess the damage output on the Kitsune Sword Saint might have been quite a bit better as well - I finished the revived Staunton with a 370+ Mythic Greater Vital Strike crit. Nothing impressive in Wrath, but not bad at this point for a Dex build without Power Attack or the size buffs yet (though I doubt I'll be able to use them in that configuration).

Big Ard Gaming managed 106 Mobility here (before short term buffs, like Touch of Madness/Touch of Good and such):
https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_Kingmaker/comments/vkelch/trickster_mobility_3_viability/

 

[The_Mask]

Can anyone tell me how they figured out which Areshkagal is the true one? I'm having serious issues using the Midnight Bolt on the right one.
(I also happen to Aeon mythic suppress "her" and end the fight a bit too fast)

 

[Sarathiour]

Can anyone tell me how they figured out which Areshkagal is the true one? I'm having serious issues using the Midnight Bolt on the right one.
(I also happen to Aeon mythic suppress "her" and end the fight a bit too fast)

Last time I played, it did not matter, they are all "real" one.

 

[Yosharian]

Thanks Desiderius, you're always helpful and willing to spend time to test new things and give feedback.

The kinda sad thing is that in my yesterday level 10 Drezen Sword of Valor test build, artificially raised to MR 4 to get the Trick (well, its less then half a chapter away in any case), I managed double the AC (granted, buffed) and almost same buffed Mobility score (once we remove the OP late game items and one of Stealthy/Monkey) at 43 - incidentally same as Staunton's CMD (I now wonder if I had Heroism active). Not enough to fully reliably troll Minagho, but I guess she's supposed to be a little OP at that point. And I think with Mythic Skill Focus to only roll 10+ it would have been enough.

Even sadder that I guess the damage output on the Kitsune Sword Saint might have been quite a bit better as well - I finished the revived Staunton with a 370+ Mythic Greater Vital Strike crit. Nothing impressive in Wrath, but not bad at this point for a Dex build without Power Attack or the size buffs yet (though I doubt I'll be able to use them in that configuration).

Big Ard Gaming managed 106 Mobility here (before short term buffs, like Touch of Madness/Touch of Good and such):
https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_Kingmaker/comments/vkelch/trickster_mobility_3_viability/

Remember that Greater Sentence doesn't work

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Thanks Desiderius, you're always helpful and willing to spend time to test new things and give feedback.

The kinda sad thing is that in my yesterday level 10 Drezen Sword of Valor test build, artificially raised to MR 4 to get the Trick (well, its less then half a chapter away in any case), I managed double the AC (granted, buffed) and almost same buffed Mobility score (once we remove the OP late game items and one of Stealthy/Monkey) at 43 - incidentally same as Staunton's CMD (I now wonder if I had Heroism active). Not enough to fully reliably troll Minagho, but I guess she's supposed to be a little OP at that point. And I think with Mythic Skill Focus to only roll 10+ it would have been enough.

Even sadder that I guess the damage output on the Kitsune Sword Saint might have been quite a bit better as well - I finished the revived Staunton with a 370+ Mythic Greater Vital Strike crit. Nothing impressive in Wrath, but not bad at this point for a Dex build without Power Attack or the size buffs yet (though I doubt I'll be able to use them in that configuration).

Big Ard Gaming managed 106 Mobility here (before short term buffs, like Touch of Madness/Touch of Good and such):
https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_Kingmaker/comments/vkelch/trickster_mobility_3_viability/

Remember that Greater Sentence doesn't work

Of course it does, this ain't twitter

 

[Haplo]

Thanks Desiderius, you're always helpful and willing to spend time to test new things and give feedback.

The kinda sad thing is that in my yesterday level 10 Drezen Sword of Valor test build, artificially raised to MR 4 to get the Trick (well, its less then half a chapter away in any case), I managed double the AC (granted, buffed) and almost same buffed Mobility score (once we remove the OP late game items and one of Stealthy/Monkey) at 43 - incidentally same as Staunton's CMD (I now wonder if I had Heroism active). Not enough to fully reliably troll Minagho, but I guess she's supposed to be a little OP at that point. And I think with Mythic Skill Focus to only roll 10+ it would have been enough.

Even sadder that I guess the damage output on the Kitsune Sword Saint might have been quite a bit better as well - I finished the revived Staunton with a 370+ Mythic Greater Vital Strike crit. Nothing impressive in Wrath, but not bad at this point for a Dex build without Power Attack or the size buffs yet (though I doubt I'll be able to use them in that configuration).

Big Ard Gaming managed 106 Mobility here (before short term buffs, like Touch of Madness/Touch of Good and such):
https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_Kingmaker/comments/vkelch/trickster_mobility_3_viability/

Remember that Greater Sentence doesn't work

Thanks. Not planning on using a Judge here anyway.

Previously pondered SS 13 / Rowdy 1 (VS, Vital Force) / Loremaster 1 (GVS at level 9!) / Instinctual Warrior 4 / Demonslayer Ranger 1.
Currently theorycrafting SS 13 / Rowdy 1 / Loremaster 1 / Instinctual Warrior 2 / Mutation Warrior 3.

I bet Desiderius will like it

 

[Yosharian]

Sanctified Slayer is the best Inquisitor, and Glory domain got destroyed anyway

 

[Haplo]

Fixed, really

 

[Desiderius]

Threw together a Mobility Trickster. Man, Tabletop Tweaks Mythic Tricks are awesome. Worth checking out. But Mobility looks unchanged. From a reloaded and retrained lvl 17, Mythic 6 Trickster (so no Microscopic yet):

View attachment 27142

This is unbuffed (other than Reduce) and missing the Athletics/Mobility +4/+4 Feat Tweaks adds. So could get another 15-20 without much work. Another 40 who knows? Can also debuff the CMD of the boss in various ways or just focus on using it to clear out regular mobs easily while enjoying the other awesome Mythic tricks. Trickery 3 changes the Dispel range to Close from Touch (while giving a substantial debuff + kill chance) so that could soften up CMDs as well.

Thanks Desiderius, you're always helpful and willing to spend time to test new things and give feedback.

The kinda sad thing is that in my yesterday level 10 Drezen Sword of Valor test build, artificially raised to MR 4 to get the Trick (well, its less then half a chapter away in any case), I managed double the AC (granted, buffed) and almost same buffed Mobility score (once we remove the OP late game items and one of Stealthy/Monkey) at 43 - incidentally same as Staunton's CMD (I now wonder if I had Heroism active). Not enough to fully reliably troll Minagho, but I guess she's supposed to be a little OP at that point. And I think with Mythic Skill Focus to only roll 10+ it would have been enough.

Even sadder that I guess the damage output on the Kitsune Sword Saint might have been quite a bit better as well - I finished the revived Staunton with a 370+ Mythic Greater Vital Strike crit. Nothing impressive in Wrath, but not bad at this point for a Dex build without Power Attack or the size buffs yet (though I doubt I'll be able to use them in that configuration).

Big Ard Gaming managed 106 Mobility here (before short term buffs, like Touch of Madness/Touch of Good and such):
https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_Kingmaker/comments/vkelch/trickster_mobility_3_viability/

Sad? Nah that was five minutes to get an idea of what was realistic Mobility-wise. A little more than I thought without much effort.

Unbuffed is the whole thing (plus unequipped outside of Sacrifice, the Mobility Belt isn’t that big of a deal since it’s Competence). Master of All has a lot going on with Skill Focus at creation (from Half-Elf) and as you level replacing a Sneak each time instead of a Feat or Rogue Ability.

Very nice on MC to make sure you get the Trickery EXP while leveling (and land Mythic Trickery Dispel!) and Mythic Trick Persuasion can Intimidate anything. Trapfinding + Perception Focus etc.

Good fit with Tweaked Mythic Tricks. Enough damage for full party (Trickster restores the Sneaks you trade for Foci) while giving you Double Debilitation and Dodge etc, but perhaps not enough for soloing.

 

[Haplo]

I don't solo

...but I do tend to build my MCs in a way that they kinda could. Still use buffs from other party members.

 

[Desiderius]

I guess I told Daidre that even half of a Haplo build is good damage on Sosiel so the same would apply to DEX-based Vital Strike Mobility. Just seems like one too many directions when you've got other things you can do that fit better with the rest of the Trickster abilities and DEX-based.

Same would apply to Master of All I guess since it also gets Bardic Knowledge (and take ten on Stealth/Trickery or Lore/Knowledge from Advanced Talents, but not Mobility) so would be better suited for the other Mythic Tricks.

If I were doing Mobility Trickster I'd probably go Order of the Paw and double up on the high Mobility to make Mount immortal while trying to find some way to get Spirited Charge on the Mobility AoOs. Microscopic Fabled Hero's Lance FTW.

But it's been so long since I played Wrath that I'd be a poor playtester at this point. Just now relearned enough to be decent at P:K again.

 

[Desiderius]

Weird thing about that Mobility check is that your CMB doesn't matter (and you get auto-flatfoot on the AoO plus Ever Ready bonus) so you could even play a 1/2 class (mounted Feyspeaker?) I think without too much trouble. Nice not to worry about Agile Maneuvers.

 

[Haplo]

Hmm, I seem to recall it maybe doesn't work mounted? Since you need those Acrobatic evolutions... and not sitting and riding on top of your pet. The thought did cross my mind, so maybe need to check it. In any case, don't see a way for it to work with Spirited Charge.
A 100 Speed (+50 bonus from Mobility 1) Raptor on the other hand... that could mean A LOT of AoOs.