Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[Haplo]

Cavalier of the Paw gets no Order, sadly.
Changes it from one of the best archetypes to one of the worst.

It’s Order of the Paw. The Order is built into the class. Take another look at what you’re getting.

Hmm, fair enough. I've missed that those special abilities are flagged as "Order". Still, I don't think it'd trade the benefits some other orders bring (Sword, Cockatrice, Lion) for the Paw bonuses.

 

[LannTheStupid]

How Dark Kineticist works now it is also better. Overcharge and Soul bonuses stack :D You get 3 from Overcharge and up to 6 from Soul.

Should they be stacking? Or is it another feature-bug that Owlcat will fix in future patches?

 

[ArchAngel]

How Dark Kineticist works now it is also better. Overcharge and Soul bonuses stack :D You get 3 from Overcharge and up to 6 from Soul.

Should they be stacking? Or is it another feature-bug that Owlcat will fix in future patches?

Probably not. And doubt they are going to fix it. Or that current burn value keeps resetting to 0 letting you overburn often for mega damage.

 

[Average Manatee]

Yeah optiions in every dialogue amount to this:

1. I will help you (Good)
2. I will help you but pay me (Chaotic)
3. Holocaust (Evil)

1. I will help you (Chaotic Good)
2. Holocaust (Lawful Evil)

Player: "well my paladin is going to alignment change from lawful good to neutral good if he takes another non-lawful action"

How Dark Kineticist works now it is also better. Overcharge and Soul bonuses stack :D You get 3 from Overcharge and up to 6 from Soul.

Should they be stacking? Or is it another feature-bug that Owlcat will fix in future patches?

As written in game they should not stack. Soul Power explicitly says that Dark Elementalists gain bonuses from Soul Power *rather* than burn total. The advantage of Dark Elementalist is supposed to be that you can power up through Soul Power and then blast away without the drawbacks of maintaining lots of burn.

KKnight also solid because Blade gets iteratives.

Problem with Kinetic Knight is that there's no great advantage over simply being a normal kineticist who takes Kinetic Blade and it comes with lots of drawbacks.

One of my pet peeves with archetypes is that the ones that are basically "you play the base class but are forced to take a specific path that you already could have taken with the base class, but get an additional minor bonus" feel uninspired.

 

[The_Mask]

And today it's time for something entirely new. Special “Enhanced Edition” stream in partnership with our friend from GoG! In 20 minutes come to see Community Manager Gala and Game Designer Yulia talk about the new edition and the core game!

twitch.tv/gogcom

 

[Desiderius]

Cavalier of the Paw gets no Order, sadly.
Changes it from one of the best archetypes to one of the worst.

It’s Order of the Paw. The Order is built into the class. Take another look at what you’re getting.

Hmm, fair enough. I've missed that those special abilities are flagged as "Order". Still, I don't think it'd trade the benefits some other orders bring (Sword, Cockatrice, Lion) for the Paw bonuses.

Nah, outside of For the King those bonuses are all pretty mundane, and even FtK is Competence so may not stack.

HalfCav lets you Mount immediately on a Mount with higher base AC plus the scaling Dodge which prevents getting thrown off (leaving rider Prone) which can be a problem on early levels with Horse Cav. Halfling Mobility + DEX makes Mounted Combat effective earlier (including the save one) and the late ability is a lot of damage that multiplies on crit and can be triggered a ton with TWF.

But the big thing is Danger Ward (AoE circumstance bonus to saves *plus* reroll on fail, 3 activations per rest one minute each) which will be absolutely absurd in 2027 when Owlcat gets around to fixing it. Completely unique and irreplaceable effect.

Combine with Shake it Off on Tactician to really go off or you can start with Combat Reflexes into Seize the Moment on Tactician since you’re going to want two weapons with wide crit ranges to multiply the damage bonus from Challenge and the late ability.

 

[Desiderius]

Problem with Kinetic Knight is that there's no great advantage over simply being a normal kineticist who takes Kinetic Blade and it comes with lots of drawbacks.

One of my pet peeves with archetypes is that the ones that are basically "you play the base class but are forced to take a specific path that you already could have taken with the base class, but get an additional minor bonus" feel uninspired.

One of my pet peeves is people talking out of their ass about a class they haven’t tested and spreading false memes about the ruleset.

The free Blade is highly relevant because if you want full attax you can’t Gather. There’s no flashing sign that says “Blade gets iteratives, Blasts don’t” so people look at class without testing and think it sux. Don’t do that.

Resolute and being able to use a Shield are also highly relevant for melee class.

Try to use Kalikke’s Blade and you’ll see the difference. She does get Shield from Water but KKnight sets up great for Earth instead.

 

[Yosharian]

I cannot figure out what the fuck they have done to the Angelic Aura effect from Greater Angelic Aspect. It doesn't seem to be working at all, now. Allies under the aura do not receive a Resistance bonus to their saves when Evil creatures force saving throws on them.

 

[Yosharian]

Also I'm pretty sure I was the last person to learn this but posting it anyway - confirmed that the books such as the one that gives +1 DC to Mind-Affecting spells are not usable on companions, they seem to automatically grant an ability to the MC rather than be usable on the belt like the +2 Tomes are.

 

[Yosharian]

Oh look no fixes to things that actually matter

Well not really but FFS where are the core class fixes we are waiting for dammit

 

[The_Mask]

 

[Average Manatee]

The free Blade is highly relevant because if you want full attax you can’t Gather. There’s no flashing sign that says “Blade gets iteratives, Blasts don’t” so people look at class without testing and think it sux. Don’t do that.

Resolute and being able to use a Shield are also highly relevant for melee class.

Try to use Kalikke’s Blade and you’ll see the difference. She does get Shield from Water but KKnight sets up great for Earth instead.

Free blade at low levels doesn't matter because that's before you get iteratives anyway. At that point there's no reason to be in melee rather than blasting from across the screeen. By the time you get iteratives regular kineticist has free kinetic blade. At that point the only reason to reduce burn further is to abuse stacking brokenly OP forms and metamagic... which Kinetic Knight doesn't get. Meaning regular kineticist can actually deal more damage in melee if they choose to use metamagic (which will probably require burn until higher levels, but its an option they get that you don't).

Resolve is... OK? Heavy armor is obviously pretty damn useless considering you're a character who wants to min-max dex anyway (and you need to min-max dex EVEN HARDER as a kinetic blade character since those iteratives need more AB to hit, while a blaster only has to hit their highest attack). Shield proficiency is a reasonably notable advantage but that's it.You're giving up the massive flexibility and strength of everything blast related along with broken as fuck form infusions for little to nothing in return, and a normal kineticist can actually deal MORE damage in melee than you if they choose to go into melee.

 

[rojay]

Was there always a way to turn off kineticist's area of effect attacks? I remember taking a fire/earth kineticist through Kingmaker and the composite deadly earth, maximized and empowered, was an encounter winner if I could use it to start a battle. But waiting for it to dissipate was a pain in the ass. I used a kineticist in the Isles and suddenly I can just wave my arms and "poof". Did I actually miss that in Kingmaker, or is it new?

 

[LannTheStupid]

Was there always a way to turn off kineticist's area of effect attacks? I remember taking a fire/earth kineticist through Kingmaker and the composite deadly earth, maximized and empowered, was an encounter winner if I could use it to start a battle. But waiting for it to dissipate was a pain in the ass. I used a kineticist in the Isles and suddenly I can just wave my arms and "poof". Did I actually miss that in Kingmaker, or is it new?

1. Dispelling area effects is a universal feature added from the release of Wrath of the Righteous.
2. This feature does not exist in Kingmaker (besides mods).
3. Kineticist's area effects are dispelled in Wrath as all the other effects (like Web).
4. However, in Kingmaker you are able to create the same effect in the area that is outside of your path after the combat is won. There can be only one Deadly Earth, and the second one dispels the first.

 

[Yosharian]

Lol Infinitron I was just joking about the old thing, no need to delete the post

 

[Grunker]

hey here's a level 13 inquisitor and three buffed mopes for your level 4 party to fight have fun

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

I've had no problems popping chests on Core just using Camilla with maxed trickery and some +5 ring, no idea what's this shit about needing a super specialzied trickery dude.

 

[Lambach]

(the Evil choices in that dialogue are really bad, like High School Bully bad)

The best [Evil] dialogue option in the game IMHO is the one that goes "[Evil] Die! (Attack)". The kicker is, this option is given to you during a conversation with an actual Deity.

But yeah, quite a lot of [Evil] options suffer from the same issue as they do in the vast majority of RPGs, i.e. they're often not so much "Evil" as they are "30 IQ Psychopath". However, dialogue options specific to Evil-aligned Mythic Paths can often be quite satisfying and make you feel like an actual, proper villain instead of just a murderhobo on meth.

 

[traa]

Some more fun in Blackwater.
On Unfair those cyber-enhanced mobs have really high CMD, so the Mobility checks are not easy to make. Still its a fun and effective playstyle.

Could you please share build details and what's going on on the screen? Looks really fun!

 

[Daidre]

I've had no problems popping chests on Core just using Camilla with maxed trickery and some +5 ring, no idea what's this shit about needing a super specialzied trickery dude.

Camellia is Half Elf with +3 (6 after lvl 10) Trickery from her Racial Skill Focus. She is already optimized to be party's lockpicker by Owlcat. Same as Octavia in Kingmaker.

I've never had issues with DC for Trickery skill checks in the main camaign, but +5-15 Skill items are beyond rare in Rogue-like. There, especially if you try to hit above your level with 3 skull islands, I had my Kineticist, for example, who had sky-high DEX, class skill and food buffs, rolling critical failures for the trap disarm way more often than I'd like, on Hard. Would be even worse on Unfair.

 

[Desiderius]

The free Blade is highly relevant because if you want full attax you can’t Gather. There’s no flashing sign that says “Blade gets iteratives, Blasts don’t” so people look at class without testing and think it sux. Don’t do that.

Resolute and being able to use a Shield are also highly relevant for melee class.

Try to use Kalikke’s Blade and you’ll see the difference. She does get Shield from Water but KKnight sets up great for Earth instead.

Free blade at low levels doesn't matter because that's before you get iteratives anyway. At that point there's no reason to be in melee rather than blasting from across the screeen. By the time you get iteratives regular kineticist has free kinetic blade. At that point the only reason to reduce burn further is to abuse stacking brokenly OP forms and metamagic... which Kinetic Knight doesn't get. Meaning regular kineticist can actually deal more damage in melee if they choose to use metamagic (which will probably require burn until higher levels, but its an option they get that you don't).

Resolve is... OK? Heavy armor is obviously pretty damn useless considering you're a character who wants to min-max dex anyway (and you need to min-max dex EVEN HARDER as a kinetic blade character since those iteratives need more AB to hit, while a blaster only has to hit their highest attack). Shield proficiency is a reasonably notable advantage but that's it.You're giving up the massive flexibility and strength of everything blast related along with broken as fuck form infusions for little to nothing in return, and a normal kineticist can actually deal MORE damage in melee than you if they choose to go into melee.

Have you played the class? DEX-based? I don’t want to have to fool with Finesse. Heavy’s great.

Specialization reduces total cost. Total cost for KKnight = total cost for regular Kinnie -1 on Infused Blade attax. So if you can’t Gather the only way you can afford a Substance Infusion is to take Burn (limited resouce) or Specialization with free Blade. It’s the main point of the class.

So at lvl eight with Haste all of a sudden you’ve got three attax with Trip or Magnetic or whatever on each one. And yeah if I have a character with Shield + Heavy + Earth DR I want to be in melee even before iteratives, especially since that way I don’t need Point Blank/Precise and benefit from Flanking. KKnight also counts as having Combat Expertise which unlocks Trip Feats. And yeah advantage on Will/Fort saves is *really* good since it turns crit misses from 1/20 to 1/400. Curing Fatigue/Exhaustion is also a nice convenience.

It doesn’t need as many Infusions since it only uses one Form.

I played TSS1/KKnight on Val in P:K and it was great. Nothing “broken” (few things in these games really are - kiting is highly overrated, especially in Wrath) but very resilient and effective. I think Whirlwind was bugged to be free but regular attax were good too. Jewb threw Transformation on her and she was Mud (?) Blasting five times per turn with Greater Trip (and Tandem) on each one IIRC. (With my luck this doesn’t work for some reason and I’m getting it mixed up with some stupid shit I was doing tanking with MT Tristian). I do know the Whirlwinds were great and that regular Kinnie runs into a little bit of a wall with the one Blast per turn limit late game since it’s not guaranteed to hit while KKnight ends up with at least 4 per turn.

 

[Desiderius]

I've had no problems popping chests on Core just using Camilla with maxed trickery and some +5 ring, no idea what's this shit about needing a super specialzied trickery dude.

Camellia is Half Elf with +3 (6 after lvl 10) Trickery from her Racial Skill Focus. She is already optimized to be party's lockpicker by Owlcat. Same as Octavia in Kingmaker.

I've never had issues with DC for Trickery skill checks in the main camaign, but +5-15 Skill items are beyond rare in Rogue-like. There, especially if you try to hit above your level with 3 skull islands, I had my Kineticist, for example, who had sky-high DEX, class skill and food buffs, rolling critical failures for the trap disarm way more often than I'd like, on Hard. Would be even worse on Unfair.

There are no crit failures on skill checks. If you can beat them by 20 you’re good, but that’s easier said than done. That’s where the take ten (or 11 for Touch of Law) abilities kick in.

 

[rojay]

Was there always a way to turn off kineticist's area of effect attacks? I remember taking a fire/earth kineticist through Kingmaker and the composite deadly earth, maximized and empowered, was an encounter winner if I could use it to start a battle. But waiting for it to dissipate was a pain in the ass. I used a kineticist in the Isles and suddenly I can just wave my arms and "poof". Did I actually miss that in Kingmaker, or is it new?

4. However, in Kingmaker you are able to create the same effect in the area that is outside of your path after the combat is won. There can be only one Deadly Earth, and the second one dispels the first.

Thanks. #4 is what I ended up doing in Kingmaker. I'd just throw a deadly earth in a corner of a room that I didn't need to walk through to clear the existing effect. I much prefer the dismissal option.

 

[Delterius]

Did I actually miss that in Kingmaker, or is it new?

its new. same as dismiss spell

 

[Lambach]

I much prefer the dismissal option.

Massive QoL improvement compared to Kingmaker. Apparently, even after all this time, they still haven't patched it into that game, which is just baffling.