Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[Desiderius]

Awesome! Lotssa credit is due to Daidre as well though. And I think the reason I chose Bloodrager was due to some rando YouTuber who made a kindda shitty version of something similar, based on the transformations (but still pointed me towards Bloodrager as the base)

The point of Natural Attacks is that you're not in fact sacrificing a ton of BAB since you don't rely on iteratives to generate extra ones (Primary Bite attack also gets iteratives though?) and they're all at full BAB or at most -5 for Secondaries (which can be reduced with Multiattack Feat) and you get them all right away instead of having to wait for Haste/BAB build-up. There are any number of ways to take advantage of that with 1/2 classes getting the most benefit from them (look into Hagbound since it gets Enlarge to help plus can pivot into Infinite Curse Touch and eventually just casting once the Natural Attacks go obsolete or Elemental Rampager, etc).

The other ones aren't shitty, you're just front-loading most of your benefits with all the dips and splashes at the expense of the class development the other ones get. Bloodrager especially can get some pretty sick mid-late abilities that you'll be going several levels without. I'm just whacking shit for a ton with a Glaive right now but in 2,000 EXP I'll have Standard Action Dazzling with a ton of Intimidate in time for Garrison. Going to be tough to resist a Thug splash at some point.

 

[Desiderius]

Yeah I'm just reflecting at the moment if there is some way to combine the natural attacking Aspects with something else. Perhaps some kind of EK build that spams natural attacks with high STR, but also can toss out nasty spells when crits occur.

Or something else but I dunno just something more than just 'i do natural attacks'

I've not built a Demon before so I don't know if there's room with the Aspect picks to hybridise at all

Maybe charging or being mounted?

Maybe if you romanced Wenduag during this playthrough, all your attacks would also drain levels?

Maybe there's a dispelling attack build in there?

Advanced Weapon Training + TTT/Dark Codex + Dragonheir Scion

Once we have access to the Feat that lets you apply Unarmed stuff to Natural Attacks Scaled Fist into Dragon Disciple will also be really good. The pathing seems to be much better for Dragonshaping now.

 

[Longes]

Yeah I'm just reflecting at the moment if there is some way to combine the natural attacking Aspects with something else. Perhaps some kind of EK build that spams natural attacks with high STR, but also can toss out nasty spells when crits occur.

Or something else but I dunno just something more than just 'i do natural attacks'

I've not built a Demon before so I don't know if there's room with the Aspect picks to hybridise at all

Maybe charging or being mounted?

Maybe if you romanced Wenduag during this playthrough, all your attacks would also drain levels?

Maybe there's a dispelling attack build in there?

Advanced Weapon Training + TTT/Dark Codex

Is Dark Codex a forum where people calmly discuss how much they like all RPG and even non-RPG games without ever getting into fights about them?

 

[Desiderius]

ModFinder mod has a nice list with easy access to descriptions and updates.

 

[Yosharian]

The main problem with this Demon Dancer archetype is that Fiend Totem and Greater Fiend Totem are just complete ass. Can't really see a way around this issue.

In fact GFT is so bad that it is primarily a debuff for your party rather than doing anything useful

 

[Haplo]

Plus the trend has always been not to give NPCs the clearly best and OP archetypes.

Lol clearly best for your playstyle. Scroll Savant/Illusion Magic takes a back seat to nobody. Weird Controller not a perfect fit with bite/pounce obviously (though a Natural Attack build is there too and the Illusion spells go well with that to make her a Displacer Beast) but you know from Minagho and Shadow Votary what Putrefaction/PhantWeb can do and there is no end to the value Scroll Savant can add. It's like a Pseudo BFT already with a smattering of UMD on the other characters and she turns on all the crappy found scrolls for her own use.

But nothing's stopping your BFT from being your Weird Illusion Controller. In fact, I they can buff their DCs to be 2 points higher then in case of a Scroll Savant...

 

[Grunker]

Awesome! Lotssa credit is due to Daidre as well though. And I think the reason I chose Bloodrager was due to some rando YouTuber who made a kindda shitty version of something similar, based on the transformations (but still pointed me towards Bloodrager as the base)

The other ones aren't shitty, you're just front-loading most of your benefits

Yes, the build I found was quite poor, as it planned to be in poly and later demon transformations for 99% of the time but also built around nat attacks that didn't transfer into those forms. It had a lot of antisynergy that the author clearly hadn't thought about.

You have many types of autisms but clearly your main one is this fantasy world in your head that allows you to talk about something you have no way of knowing, just like when you assumed my age, job and perspective on moral relativity - all wrongly, I might add.

 

[Grunker]

The main problem with this Demon Dancer archetype is that Fiend Totem and Greater Fiend Totem are just complete ass. Can't really see a way around this issue.

In fact GFT is so bad that it is primarily a debuff for your party rather than doing anything useful

Yeah, they're kindda not great. Lesser at least okay though (I use it)

 

[Lambach]

You have many types of autisms

Too bad none of those types of autisms make him some sort of a build-savant, because most of his advice sucks dick.

 

[Desiderius]

You have many types of autisms but clearly your main one is this fantasy world in your head that allows you to talk about something you have no way of knowing, just like when you assumed my age, job and perspective on moral relativity - all wrongly, I might add.

"Ones" plural. That one could be, but not all of them that don't multi-splash are.

(1) I didn't assume your age. "That's where you're wrong, kiddo" is an internet meme:

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/thats-where-youre-wrong-kiddo

(2) I didn't assume your job, you told us what your job is.

(3) "I'm not judging" a cannibal is, sadly, a perspective so endemic to your (our) class (as is the Bloom Mind-closing fallacy) that you're hardly aware it's even there. But it is, and it's killing you (us). Don't shoot the messenger. It isn't autism.

most of his advice sucks dick.

Doesn't suck for me. Play better.

 

[Yosharian]

Maybe if I multiclassed the DD at level 8, not sure what I would fill the remaining levels with

 

[Yosharian]

I wonder if allies can benefit from multiple Inspired Rage effects from multiple Skalds

 

[Desiderius]

Does the Fiend Totem damage trigger on attacks or just hits?

Maybe if I multiclassed the DD at level 8, not sure what I would fill the remaining levels with

We did Scaled Fist 6/Sorc1 then the DD levels then finished up with Scaled Fist in CotW. Point was to get to Dragonform (without having to cast it from Spellbook) fast so may have been better off with SF4/Sorc1.

 

[Lambach]

Doesn't suck for me. Play better.

Bruh, I asked for advice regarding a build that uses Natural Weapons in combat almost exclusively, and your advice was that I should play a Class that can use Natural Weapons for like 6-7 Rounds per day.

"Play better", he says. Lol. Rofl. Lmao, even.

 

[Daidre]

I wonder if allies can benefit from multiple Inspired Rage effects from multiple Skalds

Edit: I have checked it - you can stack Skald songs with your own Rage Powers getting bonuses from more than one Stance/Totem, but two Rage Songs from different Skalds overwrite each other.

 

[Desiderius]

Doesn't suck for me. Play better.

Bruh, I asked for advice regarding a build that uses Natural Weapons in combat almost exclusively, and your advice was that I should play a Class that can use Natural Weapons for like 6-7 Rounds per day.

"Play better", he says. Lol. Rofl. Lmao, even.

That wasn't my advice lol. Obviously Scion doesn't have native abilities that allow it to Wild Shape. That's the whole point. *It's a game with six characters*. Use them. Nenio gets Polymorph at lvl 9, Ember the Natural Attack Hex at 10, Nenio can make Shaping Scrolls, or you can buy them. Just takes decent UMD on MC since can use scroll out of combat.

Seriously, I think it was Skyrim that did this.

Will eventually be a Gold Dragon so building toward that.

In this case I said I was testing it with Demon to see how the Demon Natural Attacks interact with Wild Shaping. They may well be a nonbo. I'll know in about a week when I hit Demon. If you have a Demon save you can test it yourself. I don't yet.

 

[Desiderius]

You're reading someone taking the time to clear up a misconception on your part. The Scion build I'm testing picked up Natural Weapon Training at lvl five so it will be using Natural Weapons exclusively sometime soon.

Any other questions?

 

[Lambach]

That wasn't my advice lol. Obviously Scion doesn't have native abilities that allow it to Wild Shape. That's the whole point. *It's a game with six characters*. Use them. Seriously, I think it was Skyrim that did this.

Except I very clearly, very specifically, very explicitly pointed out I want an MC built around Natural Weapons. I'm not sure how much clearer I could've possibly made it. Maybe I should've drawn you a detailed diagram or a crayon drawing or something similarly simple so that you can understand a sentence that p. much everyone over the age of 10, except you, could understand.

Both Longes and Grunker actually replied to my post with an actual answer that actually pertained to my question, regardless of whether I liked or disliked the answer itself. You answered..... nothing. And yet you still have the chutzpah to portray yourself as some kind of a definitive authority on this shit. Just stop already, it's embarrassing.

 

[Desiderius]

My MC is built around Natural Weapons. I just took Weapon Training Natural Weapons. I... wouldn't be taking that if it weren't. You don't have to limit yourself to classes that have their own Natural Weapons in a game with several abilities that share them. You asked if I was using native Claws and I said no.

Why do people insist on making up obviously absurd shit to try to own me? Daidre does that just fine by finding my actual mistakes. Average Manatee and Stoned Ape and Haplo provide good give-and-take where we both learn stuff.

I'm such an authority that people complain about how much I author. Somebody should be embarrassed here but it's not me.

 

[Lambach]

Somebody should be embarrassed here but it's not me.

Actually, I agree. The people embarrassed should be the ones that actually give you the time of day or even bother engaging with you at all, lulz. I certainly won't be making that mistake again.

 

[RunningWolf]

And yet you still have the chutzpah to portray yourself as some kind of a definitive authority on this shit. Just stop already, it's embarrassing

Just on a last page he was writing about unironically using standard actions for dazzling. Don't demand too much out of special ed kid. Just pat him on his back and watch him to continue eating crayons.

 

[Grunker]

And yet you still have the chutzpah to portray yourself as some kind of a definitive authority on this shit. Just stop already, it's embarrassing

Just on a last page he was writing about unironically using standard actions for dazzling. Don't demand too much out of special ed kid. Just pat him on his back and watch him to continue eating crayons.

TBF I think Desi plays on realtime where spending a standard on Dazzling can be more reasonable depending on the circumstance

 

[Lambach]

TBF I think Desi plays on realtime where spending a standard on Dazzling can be more reasonable depending on the circumstance

Oh, he plays in realtime, alright. Real Nigga Shitposting Time, that is.

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[Desiderius]

And yet you still have the chutzpah to portray yourself as some kind of a definitive authority on this shit. Just stop already, it's embarrassing

Just on a last page he was writing about unironically using standard actions for dazzling. Don't demand too much out of special ed kid. Just pat him on his back and watch him to continue eating crayons.

TBF I think Desi plays on realtime where spending a standard on Dazzling can be more reasonable depending on the circumstance

Move plus Standard Dazzling with no penalty is -2 to attacks and saves AoE and turns on Shatter for everybody. Scion is only class that can do that. At level six.

Are you (erroneously) saying that I don't know that Dazzling is usually a Full Action, RunningWolf? Or (erroneously) that Move + Standard Action Dazzling with 25 (and growing) Initimidate is somehow a poor opening move?

I'm trying out TB this time. Adds some challenge to my usual zerging strategy that doesn't work in TB but opens up some tactical options and gets me back up to speed on the game after having been off for awhile.

 

[Desiderius]

Here's a couple options for other builds that take good advantage of Natural Attacks:



This is Elemental Rampager Druid with Motherless Tiefling that sets up well for the stats you want. Four attacks early without having to splash, which is important to preserve fast spell progression and to unlock the good Elemental Keystones.



Hagbound Keen Kitsune starts with three attacks and the level two ability cancels out the STR malus from Kitsune. Doesn't stack with Enlarge but hard to keep Enlarge up early anyway and frees up slots, then sets up well for infinite Curse midgame. Also fast spell progression for late casting with Demon DC forms. Curse was (bugged?) using CHR for DC not sure if that's been fixed.