Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[Delterius]

FYI you can get this beauty as early as CH3. Not sure what the requirements are, I got it on my chaotic good Azata playthrough.

it is 'have arcane trickster levels'

 

[Grunker]

In either case - I was wrong!

Even though your build didn't work out the way you planned, I love that there are so many possibilities to experiment with and think about even after the game's been out this long.

Honestly the hit to the build isn't that bad if it worked as intended - the most important thing is the BAB and losing the 0.5 multiplier. As well, this insane bonus only comes at Mythic Rank 7, so it won't be relevant for most of the campaign anyway. But if Yosharian is intending to use this on the more demanding islands, it will probably affect him more.

And it certainly sucks if some of the naturals keep the 0.5 multiplier on damage, because that's a really big hit.

 

[Desiderius]

There’s time pressure/limited rest before Defense (although I didn’t get the trigger for that this time so maybe they eliminated it/increased the available time) then again in Garrison if you want to keep up the Haste. Combined with short spell durations and abilities that haven’t unlocked yet it’s significantly more difficult than the rest of the game, at least the way I usually play Wrath.

As with P:K much of the best itemization is locked behind the KM/Crusade but once you learn how to unlock those the itemization is some of the best there is.

They’ve even buffed some of the procs, and those are very relevant if you’re making regular use of Shaken/Sicken/Archon’s/Hexes to debuff saves which is very doable.

 

[Grunker]

BTW, another thing I'd wondered: the Pathfinder rules are not very specific on this point, but their examples certainly are: after moving on a mount, you should not be able to make a full attack. This is hard to translate to a vidya game, because the reason stated in the rules is that the game assumes "time flows" while riding, so theoretically, you could make a full attack if you made them across the move (so for example, 1 attack at the start of the move, another in the middle, and another in the end). This is only for melee characters - ranged characters can full attack all they want on a mount after a move.

I presume Owlcat just said "fuck it" and intentionally implemented full attack for melee characters as well? Or has there been some Paizo ruling on the subject? It certainly seems like universal behavior.

 

[Desiderius]

And yeah, I think I'm starting to expect that I will be going for another playthrough of this one unless the upcoming chapters get really bad. I've enjoyed my time more than I did with Kingmaker, which is surprising since Codex consensus (except for the few diehards in this thread) seems to be that this game is somehow worse than Kingmaker. Do the later chapters really get that bad?

Is that actually true? if so, codexers are dumb.

I mean I don't have like quantitative data on it or anything, but it's the distinct impression I've gotten from the total sum of Wrathfinder posts I've read (beyond like I said the good handful of people keeping this thread alive).

I do agree that outside this thread it feels that most people posting about wrathfinder are shitting on it (mainly for presumed sjwry), but I don't think those are legitimate opinions.
A lot of the people who would like it are probably too clever to play it so close to the (goty) release, better wait for the bugs to get solved.

It’s not presumed, but it’s mostly front-loaded/avoidable and more of a storyfag thing that doesn’t impact combat except to the extent that it drains resources from competent programmers.

Also crowds out more compelling writing that would better reflect medieval setting/Russian cultural background of writers. Everything current-year/post-Western means everything boringly the same. That and the felt need to Blackwash (and here Femalewash) anything LG.

If you're trying to brute force all the combat (which is what the memes try to do) it's going to feel like too much combat since it will all be the same approach instead of matching the different strengths of your classes/available party combos to the challenges/weaknesses of each different foe/map/dungeon which adds a lot of variety/relayability.

BTW, another thing I'd wondered: the Pathfinder rules are not very specific on this point, but their examples certainly are: after moving on a mount, you should not be able to make a full attack. This is hard to translate to a vidya game, because the reason stated in the rules is that the game assumes "time flows" while riding, so theoretically, you could make a full attack if you made them across the move (so for example, 1 attack at the start of the move, another in the middle, and another in the end). This is only for melee characters - ranged characters can full attack all they want on a mount after a move.

I presume Owlcat just said "fuck it" and intentionally implemented full attack for melee characters as well? Or has there been some Paizo ruling on the subject? It certainly seems like universal behavior.

TTT implements PnP intent of Standard Action only, then you can get Full Attack with Mounted Skirmisher Feat (or Trick Riding, one is prereq for the other and gives second Mobility check to cancel an attack per turn). One of the big upsides of TTT since free Pounce on top of Mount attack is pretty obviously too strong.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Typical of nuRPGs, best fun is at the at the low levels. Chapters 1-3 are excellent, then your builds start coming online and they start rushing the content, so you're just blazing through boring shit most of the time.

 

[Delterius]

If anything level 3 is where many classes come online and fun is maximized between 3-10.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Yeah that wasn't clear at all, I meant chapters 1-3 of course.

 

[ArchAngel]

Yeah that wasn't clear at all, I meant chapters 1-3 of course.

Chapter 4 would be fun as well if they didn't decide to make it super irritating place to navigate around and FPS drops are not fun either.. it reminded me of that one city in Morrowind that has multiple levels and circular towers and shit. I could not find anything there so I just left and never came back to it.

 

[user]

Anyone else gets this very annoying bug? The main character's usable items disappear all the time, I think it starts when going to the abyss for the first time.

 

[Desiderius]

Looks like the Dispersal of Forces ability that was added to the Melee General doesn't do anything either (already know that the Hunt ability for Ranged General doesn't work). If I mouse over a target it shows the same estimated damage whether it's on or off, and the character sheet stats don't change even though the icon for the buff shows up.

How is it possible to be this incompetent? I mean it's the base ability all Melee Generals start with, you'd think it would be pretty important to confirm that that works at least. Can't tell me that's niche.

Can't tell for sure since now the Combat Log for the Crusade isn't working either.

 

[Desiderius]

Here's Scion with 34 Intimidate at lvl 6 in Garrison and the results from that (yeah, on Core):



Save debuff from Dazzling let Archon's land, Archon's helped Debilitating land, Debilitating helped Abrupt Force land to proc, then Archon's and Dazzling helping proc beat save.

Wenduag cleans up the debuffed mob. You can't tell me you wouldn't want Standard Dazzling with 34 Intimidate on Unfair. That's where I'd want it the most. Glaive can't proc if it's whiffing.

 

[Haplo]

BTW, another thing I'd wondered: the Pathfinder rules are not very specific on this point, but their examples certainly are: after moving on a mount, you should not be able to make a full attack. This is hard to translate to a vidya game, because the reason stated in the rules is that the game assumes "time flows" while riding, so theoretically, you could make a full attack if you made them across the move (so for example, 1 attack at the start of the move, another in the middle, and another in the end). This is only for melee characters - ranged characters can full attack all they want on a mount after a move.

I presume Owlcat just said "fuck it" and intentionally implemented full attack for melee characters as well? Or has there been some Paizo ruling on the subject? It certainly seems like universal behavior.

Yes, it is an OP homebrew Owlcat implementation. Interestingly, it wasn't like this on release BTW, was changed to work like this in some pretty early patch.

Like Desiderius wrote, install TTT if you want to fix this behaviour. In line with tabletop, you need 3 feats there (2 if you get Mounted Combat anyways) and minimum level 14 if you want to keep these mechanics with Mounted Skirmisher.

 

[Haplo]

Yeah that wasn't clear at all, I meant chapters 1-3 of course.

I would be inclined to agree but... you don't get to experience a lot of Mythic powers in this period. Arguably for the better, but then again my inner munchkin likes those toys.

Plus nowadays my personal criteria for a build to be reasonably playable and good are that it should be at least somewhat feature complete with Mythic Rank 4 - which is around level 12-14.
While the lower levels are definately fun here, I can't say my fun ends when actual intended build begins...

 

[Haplo]

Here's Scion with 34 Intimidate at lvl 6 in Garrison and the results from that (yeah, on Core):

View attachment 29558

Save debuff from Dazzling let Archon's land, Archon's helped Debilitating land, Debilitating helped Abrupt Force land to proc, then Archon's and Dazzling helping proc beat save.

Wenduag cleans up the debuffed mob. You can't tell me you wouldn't want Standard Dazzling with 34 Intimidate on Unfair. That's where I'd want it the most. Glaive can't proc if it's whiffing.

With those debuffs in place, I think you could make really good use of Ember's Slumer... and Coup de Graces.

 

[Daidre]

Typical of nuRPGs, best fun is at the at the low levels.

And as it typical with newer games you just need to raise the difficulty higher and higher until you find the sweet spot between fun/challenge. For me it usually highest difficulty before the last, because actual highest difficulty often have some annoying mechanic like double hp/damage that wrecks indented balance and encounter design.

It worked pretty well for me with all new RPG I recently played - King Arthur, Solasta, Dangeon of Naheulbeuk. Well, Solasta is kinda easy but x2 enemy hp would make it's late game even more boring, but other two were consistently challenging throughout the game on default max difficulty.

And it is the same with Wrath - first "standard" difficulty where AI is feature-complete is Hard, so that is what I usually play, or custom. I do not not like playing Unfair since with x2 damage it is just too reloady for my tastes.

 

[Grunker]

Typical of nuRPGs, best fun is at the at the low levels.

And as it typical with newer games you just need to raise the difficulty higher and higher until you find the sweet spot between fun/challenge. For me it usually highest difficulty before the last, because actual highest difficulty often have some annoying mechanic like double hp/damage that wrecks indented balance and encounter design.

It worked pretty well for me with all new RPG I recently played - King Arthur, Solasta, Dangeon of Naheulbeuk. Well, Solasta is kinda easy but x2 enemy hp would make it's late game even more boring, but other two were consistently challenging throughout the game on default max difficulty.

And it is the same with Wrath - first "standard" difficulty where AI is feature-complete is Hard, so that is what I usually play, or custom. I do not not like playing Unfair since with x2 damage it is just too reloady for my tastes.

You know you can just play on Unfair and turn off x2 damage specifically, right?

 

[Suicidal]

I got WotR on a sale and been playing the roguelike mode for a few days. It's actually fun and a huge improvement over Kingmaker's roguelike mode.

Instead of trying to min max like an autist I just make random characters and try to make it work. I downloaded around 1000 custom portraits and pick one at random and then try to make the character I create fit the portrait. Randomly roll 3 wizards on the starter island in a game where spellcasters are terrible early? Who cares, I still push on knowing they will all be oneshot by the barbarian boss anyway.

I already feel like I got my money's worth and I haven't 't even started the main campaign yet. It will probably be overly long padded nonsense with dogshit encounter design and writing, whose quality will take a nosedive after the first few chapters like Kingkamer's was.

My biggest complaint (aside from the bugs) is that you cannot save your characters for future runs, as I would like to reuse ones I already created if I roll the same portrait, or want to try a synergy comp.

 

[Daidre]

You know you can just play on Unfair and turn off x2 damage specifically, right?

I've tried that too but difference between Hard/gutted Unfair is minimal.

 

[Yosharian]

BTW, another thing I'd wondered: the Pathfinder rules are not very specific on this point, but their examples certainly are: after moving on a mount, you should not be able to make a full attack. This is hard to translate to a vidya game, because the reason stated in the rules is that the game assumes "time flows" while riding, so theoretically, you could make a full attack if you made them across the move (so for example, 1 attack at the start of the move, another in the middle, and another in the end). This is only for melee characters - ranged characters can full attack all they want on a mount after a move.

I presume Owlcat just said "fuck it" and intentionally implemented full attack for melee characters as well? Or has there been some Paizo ruling on the subject? It certainly seems like universal behavior.

Yes, it is an OP homebrew Owlcat implementation. Interestingly, it wasn't like this on release BTW, was changed to work like this in some pretty early patch.

Like Desiderius wrote, install TTT if you want to fix this behaviour. In line with tabletop, you need 3 feats there (2 if you get Mounted Combat anyways) and minimum level 14 if you want to keep these mechanics with Mounted Skirmisher.

Stop talking about this! I will be so fucking pissed if they nerf YET ANOTHER mechanic I've built my character around

 

[ArchAngel]

BTW, another thing I'd wondered: the Pathfinder rules are not very specific on this point, but their examples certainly are: after moving on a mount, you should not be able to make a full attack. This is hard to translate to a vidya game, because the reason stated in the rules is that the game assumes "time flows" while riding, so theoretically, you could make a full attack if you made them across the move (so for example, 1 attack at the start of the move, another in the middle, and another in the end). This is only for melee characters - ranged characters can full attack all they want on a mount after a move.

I presume Owlcat just said "fuck it" and intentionally implemented full attack for melee characters as well? Or has there been some Paizo ruling on the subject? It certainly seems like universal behavior.

Yes, it is an OP homebrew Owlcat implementation. Interestingly, it wasn't like this on release BTW, was changed to work like this in some pretty early patch.

Like Desiderius wrote, install TTT if you want to fix this behaviour. In line with tabletop, you need 3 feats there (2 if you get Mounted Combat anyways) and minimum level 14 if you want to keep these mechanics with Mounted Skirmisher.

Stop talking about this! I will be so fucking pissed if they nerf YET ANOTHER mechanic I've built my character around

it is too good and should be nerfed.

 

[Yosharian]

So, regarding this natural attack demon build - I've started thinking about a Shapeshifter build instead. Much more room for optimization, and has a more traditional power curve - starting out relatively weaker and ending up more powerful. Which is what I prefer tbh.

The Marilith form is actually quite insane. It has 12 APR and uses a Longsword with a 1.5X STR mod to damage & PA bonus.

Plus there are a lot of fun toys to equip that boost poly forms.

I'm thinking about SS 13/MW 5/IW 2, but I haven't fully decided yet.

 

[Yosharian]

it is too good and should be nerfed.

I hate you.

 

[Yosharian]

2700 damage per attack with 8 APR is perfectly balanced FFS

 

[Suicidal]

Question for people who played the roguelike mode:

Do you only get access to the Hero mythic path in that mode, or can you pick the others, in which case - how? Do you need to meet some requirements or need to unlock them by playing the main campaign?

So far whenever I got to the point where it let me pick Mythics, I could only pick the Hero.